Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 07-19-2015, 08:47 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Images: 24
Goodbye Micro Pulse - Hello SeeLevel

I couldn't take it any more. After multiple recalibrations, the Micro Pulse system on my 2013 27FB trailer decided to display Yellow on day one with a full tank of fresh right after I filled my coffee pot.

Can I still take a shower? My wife wants to wash her hair, is there enough to do dishes? Water for the dog bowl? It's flashing red now!!! Did I get the Airstream with a one gallon fresh water tank? On the flip side my gray and black are always empty, even after a week. They never hold anything according to Micro Pulse. I must have the Airstream with a invisible pipe to a huge septic system.

I'm out of warranty. Not that the dealership could help, though they tried. After reading all the glowing reviews of the SeeLevel tank monitoring system I'm switching.

This weekend I brought the trailer home and decided to investigate how the switch might work. I know I need to find the wires to the Micro Pulse system and re-wire them to the SeeLevel system. The fresh tank looks somewhat easy. Airstream includes an access panel to this tank. It looks likes there's a good spot to apply the SeeLevel sending unit and the wire is convenient.

The black and gray are more difficult. I decided to remove the bolts holding the pan supporting these tanks. I only loosed the bolts a few turns on the curb side so the tank support wouldn't completely drop down. I can confirm, both black and gray tanks are not held with straps. It is the galvanized pan that holds them up.

With this I was able to create the schematic attached. I cut an access port in the galvanized pan directly below the Y as shown in the schematic. This gave good access to the place to apply the SeeLevel sending unit for the gray tank. With the galvanized pan somewhat loose I think I can apply the black sending unit as shown on the schematic.

I ordered the SeeLevel 709-P3. It should arrive in a few days. I'll update this post as I go.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20150718_145417.jpg
Views:	402
Size:	109.4 KB
ID:	243376   Click image for larger version

Name:	27FB Tank Schematic.PNG
Views:	498
Size:	42.3 KB
ID:	243377  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20150719_163541.jpg
Views:	437
Size:	126.2 KB
ID:	243378  
kscherzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 09:58 PM   #2
E Pluribus Aluminus
 
Jaxon's Avatar
 
2008 34' Classic S/O
1967 22' Safari
2005 30' Classic
Land Of Enchantment , New Mexico
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,286
Images: 9
Will be interested in hearing how well the SeeLevel performs. It has always amazed me that the tank level indicators have never been accurate in any Airstream I've owned (new & used), yet the company that manufactures them is still in business...
__________________
.
Bill & Kim
WBCCI 7005 * AIR 9218
The trouble with trouble is it always starts out as fun...
Jaxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 10:00 PM   #3
Rivet Master
 
2010 27' FB Classic
N/A , Texas
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,809
Did you order the optional 710 JS short sending boards with the system?
Our tanks are not very high and I believe need the 6" senders for the tanks.
Bluto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2015, 10:23 PM   #4
3 Rivet Member
 
amaier7771's Avatar
 
2013 25' FB Flying Cloud
Vintage Kin Owner
Colorado Springs , Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 125
Images: 1
It is hard to believe that the entire weight of the black and grey tanks are supported only by the galvanized pan!! Can you see what keeps them from moving around in the pan? OR are the tanks the exact size as the pan? Any additional details would very much be appreciated!

Thanks
Al
amaier7771 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 03:37 AM   #5
3 Rivet Member
 
1988 Argosy 32
Lomita , California
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 180
Put one in 3 years ago, works like a swiss watch.
Wolfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 05:51 AM   #6
Rivet Master
 
dznf0g's Avatar
 
2007 30' Classic
Oswego , Illinois
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 11,489
Images: 5
I used the 12" senders and cut them down to almost the exact size of each tank. This is the most accurate install. Because of the slope of the tank bottom, they show up to 25% pretty quickly but are dead nuts to 100%. I installed the FW sender to still have 6 gallons when it shows empty.
__________________
-Rich-

"If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy." - Red Green
dznf0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 07:14 AM   #7
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Images: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluto View Post
Did you order the optional 710 JS short sending boards with the system?
Our tanks are not very high and I believe need the 6" senders for the tanks.
All three tanks are approximately 9" high. The tops are molded with a sharp 90 degree angle while the bottoms have a small radius. This effectively makes the flat side slightly shorter for purposes of sticking on the See Level sender. I ordered the regular sized sender.
kscherzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 07:29 AM   #8
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Images: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by amaier7771 View Post
It is hard to believe that the entire weight of the black and grey tanks are supported only by the galvanized pan!! Can you see what keeps them from moving around in the pan? OR are the tanks the exact size as the pan? Any additional details would very much be appreciated!

Thanks
Al
The gray and black tanks appear to be molded close in size to the available space. All tanks are laying on top of a sheet of white 7/16" Styrofoam. Bits and pieces of the same Styrofoam are stuffed in all around the sides of the tanks, effectively holding them tight against the frame rail and sides of the galvanized pan. As I slowly lowered the pan I noticed all these foam pieces and decided against completely dropping it as they would fall out, or tip under, or othwise be nearly impossible to get back in place. The tanks are somewhat suspended by their various plumbing attachments.

The black/gray galvanized pan is a pretty heavy gauge steel. Quite strong. It is bolted directly to the frame with about 20 hex head bolts.
kscherzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2015, 09:32 AM   #9
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar
 
2008 25' Classic
Full Time , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
Are you going to use the Micropulse wires. They look like ordinary telephone wire.

Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2015, 08:15 AM   #10
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Ojai , California
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 7
I switched a year ago. ouldn't be happier with the SeeLevel system. Bye-bye Micropluse.
pknoone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2015, 08:35 AM   #11
2 Rivet Member
 
asheville , North Carolina
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 28
Please keep us posted on this. Would really like to know more about the SeeLevel System and it's installation. Thanks for this thread.
lloydnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2015, 08:48 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar
 
2008 25' Classic
Full Time , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknoone View Post
I switched a year ago. ouldn't be happier with the SeeLevel system. Bye-bye Micropluse.
Did you do the conversion or have someone do it for you? If you don't mind, what was the labor cost to have the work performed.

Thanks

Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2015, 10:11 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar
 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,272
kscherzi,
I've been wanting to do the same thing, for the same reasons. I have a 2001 Safari 25 and my tank arrangement is slightly different. I don't see a main shutoff valve on your system diagram or in your picture. Do you not have a separate shutoff for the main drain line? I have one in the middle between the two tank valves.

I have a plastic pan for each tank, supported by galvanized straps. I was thinking of dropping the pans to do the installation. One of my pans has an access port cut into it to do some kind of a repair, but I don't remember which tank and the trailer isn't here at the house right now.

Does anyone with an older trailer (2001 vintage) have any idea about the configuration of the tanks relative to kscherzi's diagrams and pictures?

Thanks,

Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2015, 08:30 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Images: 24
The kit arrived this week. I attached a photo of the included parts. After reading the installation guide, and examining the senders, I decided against using the MicroPulse telephone wire. The installation speaks to current loss (more in regards to the senders and tank wall thickness), yet the wires for the senders and display unit are 18 gauge. What's unique is that all three senders communicate over the same two wires (blue and black).

I spent the last two nights after work fishing two 16 gauge wires through the walls and under the floor of my trailer. It's possible to do, just have to fight for every inch. As I leave things tonight that job is mostly done.

Another consideration is the amperage rating of the SeeLevel pump switch. I didn't even think about this prior to ordering, yet the manual makes a point of saying the switch can only handle 7.5 amps. More than that and the display board fries and warranty is void. Figuring they know what they're doing I looked at the Airstream supplied SurFlow pump in my trailer, it says its 9 amps max. Above that, SeeLevel recommends installation of a relay. They also recommend a 7.5 amp fuse be installed inline with the pump switch.

I'm pretty comfortable with electrical work so I plan to run a third line from the SeeLevel display panel to the Airstream fuse panel, solely for the pump switch. There I'll utilize a empty 12 volt circuit on the fuse panel and stick in a 7.5 amp fuse to protect the switch and my warranty. I think the standard Parallax converter has one empty slot. I recently replaced my Parallax with a Progressive Dynamic which has 4 empty slots. Regardless the end result is the same. From what I can tell this run should be with a 12 gauge stranded wire. For now I plan to have a few extra 7.5 amp fuses on hand. The pump probably only draws 9 amps when it revs really fast which is almost never. I prefer to avoid the relay alternative at first.

Tomorrow I plan to try to stick on the senders and solder and heat shrink insulation the wires. I also discovered that my fresh water outlet to pump water line has separated some at the tank. This is a big problem. No significant leaking but a diversion at a minimum. I'm going to try to re-glue that connection and seal the gaps with silicone. I blame this problem on the factory. Who would know to look at these hidden connections! Unfortunately I'm out of warranty. Not sure its a Murphy's law, but it seems every project begets more work.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20150724_185252.jpg
Views:	309
Size:	81.1 KB
ID:	243836  
kscherzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 09:18 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
kscherzi's Avatar
 
2013 27' FB International
El Dorado Hills , California
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Images: 24
Progress Update

I worked some on the project yesterday, completing the grey and black tank sensor installation. I finished running new wires from the Display Panel to all three tanks. I soldered all connections and used heat shrink tubing to insulate. The Display Panel is now wired and powered on inside the trailer.

The sensors adhere directly to the outside of the tanks. The installation manual makes a point of cleaning the area well with alcohol. The manual says to avoid placement within 1" of any ferrous metal across the face of the sensor. A service bulletin included in the package says 2". The grey tank has a spot that easily meets that criteria, I was able to find a spot for the black tank where a thin piece of steel crosses the face, about 1" away. Everywhere else was inaccessible or the galvanized pan was too close. Applying the sensors was a little stressful. The adhesive is really sticky and once it touches the tank it's on for good. Making that tougher is the general difficult access. Both tanks now read zero percent (they are dead empty). So far so good!

Today I'm going to work to finish the fresh tank. For this I plan to fill the tank first then run the pump until it starts to suck air. Then temporarily tape the sensor until it reads zero percent on the Display Panel. I'll mark the spot with a sharpie then attach it permanently.

Here's a short video of the black & grey area below.

kscherzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 09:51 AM   #16
Moderator
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,911
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
If you are having issues finding a location for the sensor that is away from a metallic member, call the tech line. I had a question, called them and they were very approachable. Even though it wasn't relevant to my situation, they offered that there was a certain material that could be placed between the sensor and the metal to resolve the clearance problem.
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie(RIP) -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy https://www.airforums.com/forums/f20...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly https://www.airforums.com/forums/f10...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 09:59 AM   #17
2020 Classic 33
 
Box Elder , South Dakota
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,731
Images: 1
So I noticed that the grey water indication on the SeeLevel in my 2015 Classic seemed to be indicating higher than what I thought was in the tank.

Yesterday i took out the garden hose and attached my water flow meter and started filling the grey tank from the kitchen sink. Grey tank empty. I noted the readings as they changed on the SeeLevel and jotted down the gals off of the meter. Chart looks like this.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-07-26 at 9.53.27 AM.png
Views:	200
Size:	38.4 KB
ID:	243953

So accurate to 25% and then starts to get increasingly inaccurate. Tank is 37 gals and at 37 gal mark the sink stopped taking water.

This is a factory install. According to the manual there is no direct calibration of the water tanks, only the LPG tanks (Classic has senders on the LPG tanks).

Thoughts/suggestions? I'll call SeeLevel tomorrow. Also plan to check the sensor following the outline in the trouble shooting section later today.

Would be nice to have it indicating 100% at about the 35 gal mark.
__________________
Gary
2020 Classic 33 Twin, 2019 Ram 3500 Longhorn, ProPride
NØVPN
ghaynes755 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 10:15 AM   #18
4 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
 
acstokes's Avatar
 
2009 30' Classic
Melbourne, FL , Searsport, ME
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 309
Quote:
Thoughts/suggestions?
I'm thinking during install the sensor was stuck on the side of the grey tank without regard for where the actual waterline was. The only reason I can think the delta continues to increase would be because the sensor is not calibrated for your tank capacity.
__________________
Fred Stokes
RV Rearview Camera Systems, LLC
WBCCI #2810
acstokes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 11:24 AM   #19
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar
 
2008 25' Classic
Full Time , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
It will be interesting to see how kscherzi's readings display when filling the tanks.

Gary, have you done this test with the Fresh and Black tanks?

Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2015, 12:00 PM   #20
Rivet Master
 
KJRitchie's Avatar
 
2008 25' Classic
Full Time , Texas
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
I worked some on the project yesterday, completing the grey and black tank sensor installation. I finished running new wires from the Display Panel to all three tanks. I soldered all connections and used heat shrink tubing to insulate. The Display Panel is now wired and powered on inside the trailer.

The sensors adhere directly to the outside of the tanks. The installation manual makes a point of cleaning the area well with alcohol. The manual says to avoid placement within 1" of any ferrous metal across the face of the sensor. A service bulletin included in the package says 2". The grey tank has a spot that easily meets that criteria, I was able to find a spot for the black tank where a thin piece of steel crosses the face, about 1" away. Everywhere else was inaccessible or the galvanized pan was too close. Applying the sensors was a little stressful. The adhesive is really sticky and once it touches the tank it's on for good. Making that tougher is the general difficult access. Both tanks now read zero percent (they are dead empty). So far so good!

Today I'm going to work to finish the fresh tank. For this I plan to fill the tank first then run the pump until it starts to suck air. Then temporarily tape the sensor until it reads zero percent on the Display Panel. I'll mark the spot with a sharpie then attach it permanently.
So you ran both the gray and black sensor wires up through the subfloor. Where did the hole in the subfloor end up, somewhere under the fridge?

How did you fish new wire up to the monitor panel through the walls? Did you attach the new wire to the Micropulse wire and then pull it through the wall. I would think AS runs the wires through small holes in the ribs, hopefully there are grommets in the holes. I wonder if the insulation is added after the wiring.

I looked up to see what gauge telephone wire is and its only 24g normally so now I see the reason to run new cable.

I looked up the specs on the current line of Aquajet and Shuflo pumps. Shurflo is rated at max amps of 7.5 and Aquajet slightly lower.

It looks like when you dropped the galvanized pan the black water tank stayed supported from above. Is dropping the tank putting any stress on the plumbing fittings?

Thanks for sharing your information.

Kelvin
__________________
2008 Classic 25fb "Silver Mistress"
2015 Ram 2500 6.7L Cummins. Crew Cab, 4x4, Silver
KJRitchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Micro Pulse Tank monitor calibration Silvertwinkie Plumbing - Systems & Fixtures 100 04-30-2019 08:44 AM
Micro-Pulse Systems Monitor Bites the Dust Wayne&Sam General Repair Forum 22 08-25-2011 08:04 AM
Micro Pulse Monitor reads red when unhooked foqus Batteries, Univolts, Converters & Inverters 11 11-03-2009 09:34 PM
Micro-Pulse tank monitor blues dlb435 Waste Systems, Tanks & Totes 11 07-14-2009 01:53 PM
Micro Pulse Sensor Devoman Fresh Water Systems 3 01-16-2009 05:19 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.