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Old 07-13-2021, 08:51 AM   #1
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Newbie questions

Firstly, I apologize in advance if my first post on the airforums upsets anyone but I’m simply looking for the most efficient way for me to connect with experienced Flying Cloud owners willing to discuss my concerns.

We’re considering replacing our 2015 16’ Shasta Airflyte Reissue with a 2021 Flying Cloud 28RBT.
We currently tow the Shasta with a 2012 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 4X4.
We’d like to tow the Flying Cloud with either a Tundra (2022 or used) or a Ram 2500, both with the 8’ box. (The Ram 1500 isn’t available in Canada with the 8’ box) We bring a lot of stuff with us sometimes and I’d like the option to bring our Vespa GTV300 with us.

Our local dealer has made the following comments and I’d like to hear from current and experienced Flying Cloud owners. Feel free to send me a private message if you prefer.

Replace the Goodyear Endurance tires with Michelin passenger truck tires.
Don’t go for the lithium ion battery option in Canada due to the colder climate.
Opt for the dealer installed solar panels because they’re better than the factory installed option.
Do not tow with a 3/4 ton truck like a Ram 2500. The Tundra should be OK. A van or SUV would be way better.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
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Old 07-13-2021, 09:31 AM   #2
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Hi

Not in any particular order:

The solar panels that the factory puts on these days are first rate product. The same is true of the bits and pieces they use to do the solar package. The only thing a dealer package might do is to add more capacity. Even that can be done "after the fact" as an add on to the factory package.

I'm a big fan of Michelin tires. I would run the trailer with the supplied tires for a few years and then replace them. Cost wise, you will get nothing for the "old tires" either way. You might as well get a couple of years use out of them.

Lithium will not charge below 32F. If you will be camping a lot where daytime temps don't get above 32F, that may be an issue. I would suggest that the typical Airstream trailer also has issues when the temps never get above 32F. He does have a point, but I'm not sure I would go with him on this one.

With your description of the "stuff" you will have along, your choices are either a 2500 / 3500 truck or a "hot rod"set of mods to another sort of vehicle. A lot depends on just how you feel about making significant mods to a vehicle to get it to do do this or that. My preference would be to start with a vehicle that is up to the task "as delivered".

Most folks tow >= 28' Airstream trailers with 250 / 2500 gas fueled trucks or 350 / 3500 diesel trucks. There are never ending debates in threads here about which brand of truck is best. Handling wise, a Porsche with a bunch of mods will out handle any truck on the market. It's not quite clear where you would put a motorcycle or two ....

Based on your location and guessing who your dealer is, they specialize in hot rodding vehicles for towing. If anybody can make a Ford Fiesta pull a 7,000 pound trailer at 150 KPH, they are the ones to do it. They *do* have a track record in this specialty.

Bob
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Old 07-13-2021, 11:30 AM   #3
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Thanks for the prompt reply uncle bob!

When I posed the battery comment to Airstream they informed me that the trailers come equipped with a battery heater for the lithium batteries. I’m still leaning toward an AGM for the Flying Cloud though.

I too am a fan of Michelin tires. I have all season and winter Michelins on our vehicles. However, I put Diamond Back E rated ST whitewalls on our Shasta.
A coworker, who has purchased a few Airstreams from our local dealer, said they gave him credit for the factory installed Goodyear tires when they swapped them out for Michelins.

I’ve asked the dealer for a list of recommended tow vehicles and explained that I prefer Toyotas for their reliability and a truck because I prefer to put wet or dirty camping gear in a truck bed instead of either inside a trailer or a vehicle.

Sometimes we’re carrying a dual fuel generator, two 20 lb propane tanks, gear for a 6 day backcountry canoe trip and either a canoe or a 2 kayaks. I’d also like the option to put the Vespa in the 8’ box of a truck. Also, it’s just my wife and I. No kids or pets.

I know they’re the experts and they said the ride would be absolutely horrible if I towed with a Ram 2500. I know lots of forum users tow with this truck so I wanted some user feedback.
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Old 07-13-2021, 12:01 PM   #4
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Greetings from the Florida Panhandle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattedfred View Post
Firstly, I apologize in advance if my first post on the airforums upsets anyone but I’m simply looking for the most efficient way for me to connect with experienced Flying Cloud owners willing to discuss my concerns.

We’re considering replacing our 2015 16’ Shasta Airflyte Reissue with a 2021 Flying Cloud 28RBT.
We currently tow the Shasta with a 2012 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 4X4.
We’d like to tow the Flying Cloud with either a Tundra (2022 or used) or a Ram 2500, both with the 8’ box. (The Ram 1500 isn’t available in Canada with the 8’ box) We bring a lot of stuff with us sometimes and I’d like the option to bring our Vespa GTV300 with us.

Our local dealer has made the following comments and I’d like to hear from current and experienced Flying Cloud owners. Feel free to send me a private message if you prefer.

Replace the Goodyear Endurance tires with Michelin passenger truck tires.
Don’t go for the lithium ion battery option in Canada due to the colder climate.
Opt for the dealer installed solar panels because they’re better than the factory installed option.
Do not tow with a 3/4 ton truck like a Ram 2500. The Tundra should be OK. A van or SUV would be way better.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
First off, welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us. Let me first preface my comments by saying we are somewhat experienced Airstreamers. We have over 2,200 nights of Airstream camping. We have towed our Airstreams about 200,000 miles all over the United States and Canada including a trip to Alaska.

As to your Dealers comments, I would definitely replace the ST trailer tires that come with the Airstream with Michelin LT tires. This may require you to replace the OEM wheels with 16" wheels. We have done this on both of our 25FB's.

We have never installed any upgraded batteries. We do not do very much boondocking. We also carry a 3,000 watt generator.

We have never had any solar panels on any of our Airstreams.

We have always towed with 3/4 ton tow vehicles, both gas and Diesel. We went to Diesel in 2011, and would never go back. I can't imagine why the dealer would tell you not to tow with a 3/4 ton truck. It is my opinion that to tow a 7,000#+ trailer, a 3/4 ton tow vehicle would be preferable. I don't think that an SUV or van would be way better at all.

Brian
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Old 07-13-2021, 12:37 PM   #5
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Thanks for the prompt reply and the welcome moosetags!

It appears that the dealer is more concerned with the centre of gravity of the tow vehicle than the payload and towing capacity. One significant safety benefit of an Airstream is its low C of G.
They currently recommend with the Honda Ridgeline or the Toyota Tundra for trucks. Otherwise they recommend SUVs and vans.

Any thoughts on the high C of G with a 3/4 ton truck?
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:37 PM   #6
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As far as lithium batteries are concerned good quality batteries have cold temp protection (Battle-Born, SOK for example) we run 2x100ah SOK's with 200w solar + 180w solar suitcase. All we do is Boondock. As far as a tow vehicle is concerned you can tow with a bicycle. The question boils down to safety and the type of travel you are doing. Best advice is do the math...(towing capacity, cargo capacity, tongue weight etc.) you just don't want to have the tail wag the dog and risk sway and roll-over. We tow with an F-150HD - if I were to go up to a FC28 I would probably change the truck to a F-250. We run GYE tires and find them to be great for ST tires. Suggest using TST monitoring system with any tire. Blow-outs on an AS could easily cost you several thousand dollars in repair. In our Blog https://www.marriedwithairstream.com/ we have several in-depth articles on how we determined our tow vehicle/trailer calculations, causes and prevention of trailer sway and rollovers which may be of interest.
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattedfred View Post
Thanks for the prompt reply and the welcome moosetags!

It appears that the dealer is more concerned with the centre of gravity of the tow vehicle than the payload and towing capacity. One significant safety benefit of an Airstream is its low C of G.
They currently recommend with the Honda Ridgeline or the Toyota Tundra for trucks. Otherwise they recommend SUVs and vans.

Any thoughts on the high C of G with a 3/4 ton truck?

That's a new one on me. That is the first time that I have ever heard anyone say that the low center of gravity on an Airstream travel trailer would dictate a Honda Ridgeline or van as a tow vehicle. Our trailer tows dead level with our Silverado Duramax 2500. I don't believe that I would be comfortable pulling a 25 foot Airstream with a little pick-up truck or a minivan. To each their own, though.

Brian
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Old 07-13-2021, 03:08 PM   #8
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Use the Goodyear Endurance until they are ready for replacement, then switch to the Michelin's. Nothing wrong towing with 250/2500 pickup. Your dealer should be honest about that.

Likewise, nothing wrong towing with a Tundra. I tow a 25FB with a Tundra and love the truck, but I am constantly right at the edge of my payload limits. Your 28RB should have less tongue weight than mine, and rumors are the 2022 Tundras will be 3.5L V6 with Twin Turbos, pushing 415HP and 450 torque, with payloads about 250lbs higher than the 5.7L V8 Tundras. So payloads for the 2022 Tundras projected 1450 - 1750 pounds. Absolutely more payload and capability to the newer Tundras. Additionally, your looking at 17.5 mpg vs 10.5 mpg on the older 5.7 Tundras.

You did not say what hitch you plan on using, but I would make your short list include the following: Reese SteadiFlex, BlueOx and the Equalizer.
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Old 07-13-2021, 03:12 PM   #9
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Sorry for the confusion moosetags. When speaking about C of G Im referring to the C of G of the tow vehicle absent of the trailer. Im not referring to tow vehicle and trailer weight distribution or equalization.

Id highly recommend the some of the tow videos and articles under the Hitch Hints section of the link below. Especially the video where the owner describes how to properly hook up a Tesla to an Airstream and his article of C of G.

Id be very curious to know what you all think after reviewing this information.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
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Old 07-14-2021, 08:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattedfred View Post
Sorry for the confusion moosetags. When speaking about C of G Im referring to the C of G of the tow vehicle absent of the trailer. Im not referring to tow vehicle and trailer weight distribution or equalization.

Id highly recommend the some of the tow videos and articles under the Hitch Hints section of the link below. Especially the video where the owner describes how to properly hook up a Tesla to an Airstream and his article of C of G.

Id be very curious to know what you all think after reviewing this information.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
Hi

About all I can say is that a *lot* of us tow with what CanAm would call "high CG vehicles". We all seem to be pretty happy with the result.

I would not *ever* claim that I could beat one of their hot rods on a race track. However most of us do not treat this as a race. I also agree that the things they do to a vehicle *do* improve its performance as a tow vehicle. Indeed, if the boarder ever opens up, I might stop by up there to get a few things done. I've been saying that for a lot longer than the boarder has been closed

The only debate here is buying something that "works out of the box" vs doing a bunch of mods. Most folks go for the one that does not require mods.

Bob
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Old 07-14-2021, 09:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattedfred View Post
Sorry for the confusion moosetags. When speaking about C of G Im referring to the C of G of the tow vehicle absent of the trailer. Im not referring to tow vehicle and trailer weight distribution or equalization.

Id highly recommend the some of the tow videos and articles under the Hitch Hints section of the link below. Especially the video where the owner describes how to properly hook up a Tesla to an Airstream and his article of C of G.

Id be very curious to know what you all think after reviewing this information.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
Welcome!!

Yes, CanAm is a big proponent of modified smaller tow vehicles. I, as an engineer, do not always agree with them. Lots of people (including me) tow all the time with a 3/4 ton truck and do not have any issues with rolling over. It just depends on your view of risk; the risk of driving a vehicle with appropriate tow and payload capabilities that sits higher and won't maneuver as well as a Porsche in an emergency, versus the risk of loading up a vehicle beyond the capabilities stated by the manufacturer. Some of that may be influenced by how often you use the vehicle for other than towing (in the winter I daily drive my F250, and it is fine, but not as nice as our old X5!).

I personally would suggest either factory-installed solar OR a dedicated RV solar aftermarket company (probably worth traveling to do). We have the factory version and they work great. The best part is that they keep the batteries topped up (we have AGMs) when stored between trips. We do not do extensive boon docking so this works fine for our needs. It might be best to plot out your power needs and then make the decision (same with the Li batteries).

I went ahead and upgraded to the Michelin tires on larger rims after two years. I figured for sure I was going to have the old tires/rims sitting in my basement for decades but decided to advertise them online and some guy bought them within a week! He had a nice boat and the dual-axle trailer had plain steel 15" wheels. He wanted to have nicer wheels for the trailer so it wouldn't look so ugly when he was towing his beautiful boat. I never had any issues with the tires and did the changeover as much for the larger wheels as anything.

We were a newbie four years ago and while I am not an expert on all things AS, we have loved ours! Best of luck with everything!
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Old 07-14-2021, 10:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattedfred View Post
Replace the Goodyear Endurance tires with Michelin passenger truck tires.
I didn't. The Endurance have been great! (I have 15" rims) I love Michelins on my truck, but Michelin doesn't make or approve any trailer tires. What people are using on their trailers is a light truck tire.

Quote:
Do not tow with a 3/4 ton truck like a Ram 2500. The Tundra should be OK. A van or SUV would be way better.
I have the Tundra and love it........but it will limit how much stuff you can bring because the GVWR is not that great.
Certainly not with adding a Vespa.
A van is a great option, but one with a 3/4 ton chassis. (Put the Vespa inside!)
I'm not a Dodge fan, but that's personal choice. If Toyota made a 3/4 ton Mega Tundra they'd rule the world.
The 5.7 Tundra has plenty of power to tow the 28' but where it fails is in braking and payload. It's also very softly sprung in back so it sags quickly. I bought the 'double cab', 6.5' bed, 5.7 with tow package to maximize my payload and I'm right at the limit.
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Old 07-14-2021, 10:46 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollysdad View Post
If Toyota made a 3/4 ton Mega Tundra they'd rule the world.
Exactly!! :-) Actually, if GM makes the 3/4 ton Suburban again that would be another top contender. :-)
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:34 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattedfred View Post
Firstly, I apologize in advance if my first post on the airforums upsets anyone but Im simply looking for the most efficient way for me to connect with experienced Flying Cloud owners willing to discuss my concerns.

Were considering replacing our 2015 16 Shasta Airflyte Reissue with a 2021 Flying Cloud 28RBT.
We currently tow the Shasta with a 2012 Toyota Tacoma SR5 V6 4X4.
Wed like to tow the Flying Cloud with either a Tundra (2022 or used) or a Ram 2500, both with the 8 box. (The Ram 1500 isnt available in Canada with the 8 box) We bring a lot of stuff with us sometimes and Id like the option to bring our Vespa GTV300 with us.

Our local dealer has made the following comments and Id like to hear from current and experienced Flying Cloud owners. Feel free to send me a private message if you prefer.

Replace the Goodyear Endurance tires with Michelin passenger truck tires.
Dont go for the lithium ion battery option in Canada due to the colder climate.
Opt for the dealer installed solar panels because theyre better than the factory installed option.
Do not tow with a 3/4 ton truck like a Ram 2500. The Tundra should be OK. A van or SUV would be way better.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
Hello,

We ordered a Flying Cloud 30FB through the same dealership. We went with all options and modifications they offered us..
We did an extensive research about tires, solar, and tow vehicle, and decided to go with all options they offered. We will be towing the AS with our 2020 Durango 5.7 hemi.
The only thing my husband doesn't agree with is lithium ion batteries. For now, we ordered AGM batteries, but we planned to switch to lithium ion at some point. I'm not quite sure if this will work for us since we camp until the end of October and it can get below 0C.
We could let you know how their modification package works for us
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Old 07-14-2021, 11:54 AM   #15
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Two cents worth from someone who first towed a 27' with and S-10 (don't try this by the way). If your tow vehicle is setup properly with load distributing hitch and anti sway, you can tow with about anything assuming it has the ability (hitch, transmission, axle, etc.) as they are the key thing. I've had most of the vehicles mentioned and currently use a RAM 3500 due to size of trailers being 34' and having farm equipment to tow. For anything less than 30' but over 23' I prefer mid size (i.e. 2500) and the smaller 1500 pulled great. Now look at where you plan to pull, hills or flat or both? If mostly flat then smaller works, but hills you will like larger. You may also look at fuel consumption. The only thing I can say for sure is the use of a shell on a truck does help the pull vs not having one. The shell will also allow for safely carry the things you don't want in the AS, but always ALWAYS vent if you have any gas or LP in it and don't vent between truck and shell.
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Old 07-14-2021, 01:59 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli_Berni View Post
Hello,

We ordered a Flying Cloud 30FB through the same dealership. We went with all options and modifications they offered us..
We did an extensive research about tires, solar, and tow vehicle, and decided to go with all options they offered. We will be towing the AS with our 2020 Durango 5.7 hemi.
The only thing my husband doesn't agree with is lithium ion batteries. For now, we ordered AGM batteries, but we planned to switch to lithium ion at some point. I'm not quite sure if this will work for us since we camp until the end of October and it can get below 0C.
We could let you know how their modification package works for us
Eli_Berni

Can you send me a private message or can we exchange emails or something?
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Old 07-14-2021, 02:09 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Eli_Berni

Can you send me a private message or can we exchange emails or something?
Sure!
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Old 07-14-2021, 03:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattedfred View Post
Sorry for the confusion moosetags. When speaking about C of G Im referring to the C of G of the tow vehicle absent of the trailer. Im not referring to tow vehicle and trailer weight distribution or equalization.

Id highly recommend the some of the tow videos and articles under the Hitch Hints section of the link below. Especially the video where the owner describes how to properly hook up a Tesla to an Airstream and his article of C of G.

Id be very curious to know what you all think after reviewing this information.

https://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise/
No problem. I reviewed the information that you sent. It all looks good. I am not saying that CanAm is wrong. I am just not comfortable towing an 8,000# trailer with 4,000# tow vehicle. I just prefer a heavier duty tow vehicle.

Brian
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:41 PM   #19
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Hi, I have a Flying Cloud 25FB on order from the same dealership with an expected delivery in the spring of 2022. I agreed with their recommendations and opted for the dealer-installed solar panels, no lithium batteries and Michelin tires. I have a 2020 Ram 1500 and a 2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I intend to use both vehicles for towing depending on the type of camping I am doing. I will use the Ram when boondocking so that I can put my generator in the box. I have full confidence in that dealership’s advice particularly when it comes to towing.
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Old 07-16-2021, 10:12 PM   #20
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I pull a 27' with a F250 FX4 and wouldn't tow with anything smaller.
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