TAC - Take The High Road

[Over59]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Even "no rules" is a rule against rules. It's a logical impossibility, but quite in line with human nature. Creating a club with a logo means there's some rules—the name is a rule, the logo may be. The numbers, although assigned with great flexibility, have some sort of unspoken rule imbedded—it's your number and someone else can't use it (what would they do with it?). "Take the high road"—is it a hope, a suggestion, a rule?

When a club is created, there are all sorts of assumptions and unspoken rules. Since they are hidden, everyone has a different idea of what they are. That leads to disputes. Then rules are written down and called constitutions, bylaws, articles of association or whatever. People don't agree what those writings mean, so someone has to decide what they mean. To prevent petty tyrants from taking over, appeal processes are created. "Due process" is spoken of.

Rules can be good or bad, can be administered fairly or unfairly, bent and broken, avoided. Although people try to write good ones that can't be subverted, sometimes bad people get control and subvert or ignore them. Just look at HOA's and see how good rules are turned into crazy ones.

Americans have always liked clearly stated rules. It's tradition going back to the Magna Carta. Even the wagon trains that settled the west always had a "constitution" to regulate the trip and the wagon master. There's a belief/fear that without such documents idiots or evil people will take over.

Adding to this is the eventual desire for money to pay expenses and deal with insurance/liability question.

I don't know how this will sort out, but there is inevitably a desire for rules. It's hard wired into the American (and Canadian) consciousness. Maybe TAC can do it without rules. It will be very different than what most of us are used to. I am trained in rule interpreting and writing, so for me to visualize a rule-less club it very difficult. But everyone is trained in rules—an electrician has rules of how electricity works and the NEC; a business person knows the rules of economics and how people function together; a cook knows the rules of cooking.

To do this without rules will be a stretch beyond ourselves. Americans are always saying they hate rules, we are independent, but the truth is we feel safe with them. I think we really just want to make the rules and everyone else should obey them.

Gene

Sounds like the pol types are on the scent.
I personally do not need anyone other than LadyJane to manage me.

[Over59]

Most things will take care of themselves. Planning only gets in the way and encourages a demand for compliance. We be off the Plantation now and I for one will keep it that way. If that's too scary for you then just don't come along. You'll miss a whole lot of fun.

[mistermike]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

Some fairgrounds require it to protect themselves from liability issues.

Yes they do. Their insurance company insists on it. I rent a fairgrounds in NH twice a year for an event and we are required to provide a certificate of insurance in their favor in the amount of 1 MIL in general liability insurance. Just as a coincidence a copy of our certificate of insurance is on my desk as I write this.

This becomes the primary policy. Their insurance is still in force of course but if there are any claims they are made against our insurance first.

The good news is that this insurance is relatively inexpensive. Our annual policy is $350.00 and it covers both our events. We are set up as a Vermont not-for-profit corporation. (Note: there is a difference between a "non-profit" and a "not-for-profit" corporation). However we are NOT tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. This is another area that I do not wish to get into but suffice it to say that in my opinion there is more potential for problems than it is worth.

You don't have any negotiating power when dealing with a fair association to rent their grounds. It's very simple; you either accept their terms or you don't rent the grounds. You need them a lot more than they need you.

[mistermike]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Even "no rules" is a rule against rules. It's a logical impossibility, but quite in line with human nature......To do this without rules will be a stretch beyond ourselves. Americans are always saying they hate rules, we are independent, but the truth is we feel safe with them. I think we really just want to make the rules and everyone else should obey them.

Face it, there have to be some rules. When we started doing NEAR-Fest we also wanted to have "no rules" but very soon learned that it wasn't realistic. The Fair Association laid down some basic non-negotiable rules in their contract that I signed to rent their fairgrounds and we had to pass these along to our attendees. These included no alcohol and no open fires which are standard requirements in any contract they sign with anyone renting their grounds. Town by-law prohibits any form of consumable alcohol on the grounds and violators will be arrested if they are caught by the police. (The only place you can legally consume alcohol in the fairgrounds is inside a trailer ;~)

These rules are one thing; us enforcing them is another. We publicize them in our handouts, on our Web site and even print them right on the tickets. However we don't peek into everyone's coolers to see if there are a few brewskits lurking inside. We have performed "due dilligence" and the fair committee is satisfied.

However we do enforce the "no open fires" rule because it makes sense given the fairgrounds is 130 years old, the buildigs are made of wood and there are millions of dry pine needles everywhere. This also includes no smoking inside any of the buildings. We take this very seriously because the fair committee takes it very seriously. Failure to scrupulously enforce this would get us kicked out never to return. So we have two retired firefighters who are our Fire Wardens making sure that all cooking fires are properly and safely enclosed in an approved appliance. Their word is law on the subject and anyone who does not follow their direction will be asked to leave.

Sadly, whenever you get a few thousand people together there always will be a few ani who constantly need adult supervision. It's human nature.

The reality of it is: If you have a group of people together you will need some common-sense rules to maintain some kind of decorum and a safe environment. Just keep it to a minimum and you'll be okay.

The TAC seems to be a product of some pretty level-headed people and I for one agree to follow whatever guidelines they deem necessary to ensure everyone has a safe and good time at their events.