TAC - Take The High Road

[Air Apparent]

ScrapIrony -2

I could use that beer right now but I believe that you are currently at the Q and I am still stuck in the cold. I will have to take a rain check but will hold you to it. This is going to be a fun year. However I must say that I have always had fun with our Airstream. Any day Airstreaming is a better day than working. However I do rough it as I don't have a satellite dish (yet). An Airstream day without happy hour is ... well unthinkable.

[wheel interested]

Oh! ye'll TAC the high road and
I'll take the low road,
And I'll be in Hotland afore ye;
But me and my true love
Will never meet again
On the bonnie, bonnie banks of ...

Just teasing, but dang that song is going through my mind now. High is definitely better than low.

[ScrapIrony-2]

Bluebird,
I drank a beer for me, then I drank another...well...for me...I'm gonna get around to yours...
Wheel,
yer tacometer is(wait, that sounds like an ethnic food rating)...yer tac-hometer is running in the green...

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I feel there is plenty of room for both clubs. They do have some areas of overlap in terms of meeting peoples needs so some may choose to belong to both. Some may even choose to belong to neither and that is cool also. I also feel it is time for people to move on and stop finding so much fault.

I also hope members of The Airstreamer's Club will be taking the high road and stop degrading the club with Mr Byam's name in it.

I also hope that all roads will be explored in the future. There is no way to tell where those roads might lead you.

[DD.KARAOKE]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

I feel there is plenty of room for both clubs. They do have some areas of overlap in terms of meeting peoples needs so some may choose to belong to both. Some may even choose to belong to neither and that is cool also. I also feel it is time for people to move on and stop finding so much fault.

I also hope members of The Airstreamer's Club will be taking the high road and stop degrading the club with Mr Byam's name in it.

I also hope that all roads will be explored in the future. There is no way to tell where those roads might lead you.

Yeah!!! Can't we all just get along?
Are we not better than that?

[Mikethefixit]

Frank
I think TAC should kinda leave it open ended. What I mean is, it dont matter if ya have red,blue or green numbers or no numbers or affiliation with any club, maybe your just a WANNABE Airstreamer all should be welcome to camp with us. After all,its supposed to be about campin and havin fun.
What do ya think??

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by Mikethefixit

Frank
I think TAC should kinda leave it open ended. What I mean is, it dont matter if ya have red,blue or green numbers or no numbers or affiliation with any club, maybe your just a WANNABE Airstreamer all should be welcome to camp with us. After all,its supposed to be about campin and havin fun.
What do ya think??

That is it exactly. Open to anyone that wants to attend or participate.

I do see that many like the free aspect of this club. Do be warned that in the future we may need some donations to cover some operating expenses. No one will be required to pay anything though, and this will be purely voluntary and on a donation basis. It will also be "in the future"

For now, you can contribute by hosting a gathering somewhere in your area...

[nick6930]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

That is it exactly. Open to anyone that wants to attend or participate.

I do see that many like the free aspect of this club. Do be warned that in the future we may need some donations to cover some operating expenses. No one will be required to pay anything though, and this will be purely voluntary and on a donation basis. It will also be "in the future"

For now, you can contribute by hosting a gathering somewhere in your area...

Frank,

I know a lot like the free nature but once a non profit llc is established there would be a need for dues. That would the only fair thing otherwise some will pay for the whole. I believe this only a first step of many positive ones to come.

[ScrapIrony-2]

4CU charges $1/yr...well, that's after the somewhat larger yearly stipend...dues are inevitable, but overhead should be minimal.

[Mikethefixit]

Frank
I think we all understand in todays world "AINT NUFFIN FREE" so I think donations would be in order. If everyone knows what we are donating too. Like website time or software or things of that nature. Things that cost money and Cant be avoided. It different than me sending money to an unknown ,so they can travel for free.

[markdoane]

I think it should be about fair value.

I don't mind contributing a reasonably significant amount as long as I know it isn't mostly to pay for someone else's free ride.

[wheel interested]

I thought we were complete. You completed me at Hello. Someone has a shopping list already?

People should always pay their own way and I think will gladly do so. What are the anticipated expenses in running TAC? You saved a lot on the promotion and already have members.

So far there has not been any expense, am I correct? Only volunteerism. Problems begin when active volunteers decide what the average member can shoulder.

Pay as you go and don't spend what you don't have, I think, is pretty fiscally sound advice.

Do we need more anything? I was not aware. Additional aspirations perhaps should be disclosed ASAP and before sign ups. What exactly will the TAC ride be, that aint free?

[dkottum]

Am suggesting the "pay as you go, pass the hat, pot luck menu" system for financing the operation. The less the government, the better the government. Where have I heard that before? H.D.T.?

Hoping no one expects fluorescent green letters on our Airstream.

Doug and Cheryl

[dwightdi]

Do we need to have blanket liability insurance so the organizers of any caravans or rallies can be protected from suits against them personally in this sue happy country? Some venues require insurance for organized rallies.

[Ag&Au]

Someone set up a club with no rules, and already we are discussing what the rules for financing should be. And that is not the first suggested rule in this thread.
My understanding was that "there are no rules".

I, for one will resist any attempt to organize by ignoring it.

(this post does not count, because I am just stating my position)

From now on I will ignore. I shall maintain a state of ignorance.

Regards,
Ken

TAC CO-4

[Gene]

Even "no rules" is a rule against rules. It's a logical impossibility, but quite in line with human nature. Creating a club with a logo means there's some rules—the name is a rule, the logo may be. The numbers, although assigned with great flexibility, have some sort of unspoken rule imbedded—it's your number and someone else can't use it (what would they do with it?). "Take the high road"—is it a hope, a suggestion, a rule?

When a club is created, there are all sorts of assumptions and unspoken rules. Since they are hidden, everyone has a different idea of what they are. That leads to disputes. Then rules are written down and called constitutions, bylaws, articles of association or whatever. People don't agree what those writings mean, so someone has to decide what they mean. To prevent petty tyrants from taking over, appeal processes are created. "Due process" is spoken of.

Rules can be good or bad, can be administered fairly or unfairly, bent and broken, avoided. Although people try to write good ones that can't be subverted, sometimes bad people get control and subvert or ignore them. Just look at HOA's and see how good rules are turned into crazy ones.

Americans have always liked clearly stated rules. It's tradition going back to the Magna Carta. Even the wagon trains that settled the west always had a "constitution" to regulate the trip and the wagon master. There's a belief/fear that without such documents idiots or evil people will take over.

Adding to this is the eventual desire for money to pay expenses and deal with insurance/liability question.

I don't know how this will sort out, but there is inevitably a desire for rules. It's hard wired into the American (and Canadian) consciousness. Maybe TAC can do it without rules. It will be very different than what most of us are used to. I am trained in rule interpreting and writing, so for me to visualize a rule-less club it very difficult. But everyone is trained in rules—an electrician has rules of how electricity works and the NEC; a business person knows the rules of economics and how people function together; a cook knows the rules of cooking.

To do this without rules will be a stretch beyond ourselves. Americans are always saying they hate rules, we are independent, but the truth is we feel safe with them. I think we really just want to make the rules and everyone else should obey them.

Gene

[dwightdi]

Good Sam buys blanket liability insurance for their unit leaders and charges them $6 per member annually. If you attend 6 rallies a year that is only $1 per rally. The limit on an individual liability is $1,000,000. That is in line with what many fairgrounds require.

[Lothlorian]

Think about what is going on here. I am not going to worry about rules or any other club. Money will be paid if there is a get together I go to, which somebody is hosting and money is a requirement. Maybe money will have to be paid, maybe not.

Don't freak out if you are a person who lives by rules. What rules you have in your airstream space is your rules. Let the club evolve the way it was set up. Somebody might require money for a fundraiser for a good cause and you may or may not want to participate. Somebody may require money because they are going provide food and drink. Your choice to go and if you don't want to pay then don't go.

I think the logo is pretty cool, but somebody may make a different kind of logo for a chapter or for their own personal trailer. That is the beauty of this club. If I go camping I sure do not want to sit in a meeting or have a pow wow about rules or Robert Rules of Order. Keep it simple

Ga-2

Brian

[Gene]

Originally Posted by Lothlorian

Keep it simple

Ga-2

Brian

A good rule. My point was about what almost always happens when a club is formed and to do it differently is a challenge.

I actually find Robert's Rules fascinating and I promise never to bring a copy with me to a rally or gathering. My experience with them is that people misinterpret or ignore them to impose their will on a meeting and I have to speak up to show how they are to be used to protect democracy.

Gene

[Air Apparent]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

Good Sam buys blanket liability insurance for their unit leaders and charges them $6 per member annually. If you attend 6 rallies a year that is only $1 per rally. The limit on an individual liability is $1,000,000. That is in line with what many fairgrounds require.

Dwightdi is raising a good point that should be considered. Are rally, campout (whatever you want to call it) organizers putting themselves at risk in organizing an activity without liability coverage. I have a concern about this. I believe that having coverage would foster more rallies. Then there would be the question of how do you pay for it in a club with no dues. Also who would be covered?

Beyond insurance liablilty premiums and expenses for hosting and maintaining a website I wouldn't think that TAC would need much else for expenses. I believe that the club will need to address this issue one way or the other.

Food for thought.