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cmwarner · 05-03-2003, 09:09 PM

I'm just beginning to consider buying this model since my car is an '88 Saab 900 Turbo and I want the lightest, most compact Airstream I can manage. It'll be just me (65 lol) and the cat for probably no more than a couple of weeks at a time for starters. What would be a reasonable pprice to pay (no bells and whistles necessary) and are there any pre-owned (2002 perhaps?) in existence. I've investigated 16' Bambi's, but they're too hard to find and I can't do any restoration work myself. Am I looking at $30K? P.S. I'm a rv virgin, but willing to do necessary research and footwork before taking the big plunge.

Silvertwinkie · 05-03-2003, 09:32 PM

CM,

Your Saab is a nice car, but I have a Bambi and it's 19' long. Even with some stuff deleted and 3' less, that thing is gonna weigh at least 2k unloaded. Loaded maybe 3k. The Saab is just not the right thing to be pulling.

Trade the Saab for a body on frame Caprice, Crown Vic, Fleetwood or an SUV. All are or should be RWD. The Saab was designed as a passenger car to move people and **maybe** pull a jet ski. More than that, I think you are asking for problems. I know that the remaining Intrepid/Hensley folks up north might disagree, but for each of those, I can quote two who might say otherwise.

The lightest A/S I know of is an Argosy Minuet. Even then, I still would thumbs down the Saab to pull it.

I qualify my remarks as have driven and worked on 900s and 9000s (both non turbo). Even with the turbo, they lack what it takes to be a tow vehicle in more than a few respects.

But it is a very nice car.

Regards,

Eric

betteleal · 05-03-2003, 09:42 PM

Sorry, guys, but I don't think there is such a thing as a 16 foot CCD.. Ours is 22 feet.(2002 & 2003). Are they building something brand new? If so, let me know.

Silvertwinkie · 05-03-2003, 09:56 PM

Bette,

In the '03 brochure, they do have an '03 International CCD, 16' listed as in development.

I have heard rumors on this forum that is is either going in to production soon, or has already started.

At any rate, the conversation, money and advertising have already gone beyond the internal workings of Airstream since I am looking right at my '03 brochure as I type this.

If it pans out or not, I cannot say, but they do have plans under way and it appears to be in the works if not a done deal depending on who you talk to. Also I have heard rumors that the 16' Bambi could also be a stone throw away, but again this is not fact, just grape vine talk.

Others care to comment?

Eric

cmwarner · 05-03-2003, 10:11 PM

Re '88 Saab as towing vehicle, I admit I was apprehensive about that, but a local dealer said it would be OK. I think the stats argue against it. I won't give up my Saab, so might have to consider renting (egads!) a stronger engine. Re 2003 Int'l CCD 16', there is one on display at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art (as an example of exemplary 21st century design). I fell in love! Therein lies the problem.

Silvertwinkie · 05-03-2003, 10:21 PM

CW,

I know what you mean. They are nice cars. If you are thinking about a $20+k trailer new, then add a few thousand for a used tow vehicle. I agree totally that the Saab, regardless of what the sales people say, is not a tow vehicle. A good GM B-Body with an LT1 engine can be had for 7k depending on condition. Mine pulls all 4600+lbs of the 19' Bambi without issue. I am as I feel at the high end of that cars potential, but it is "within spec" plus the mods I made don't hurt either.

I don't think I have all the answers, but I am a pretty good tow vehicle person. I love cars and between me and my family have over 25 years of towing exp. We have met hundreds if not thousands of people in our travels. Few, if any do the full body trailer pulls with that kind of car. I have seen some pull pop ups with it though.

Eric

InsideOut · 05-03-2003, 10:45 PM

The Airstream Website shows a 16' International CCD floor plan & pictures as part of the 2003 line.

Shari

Silvertwinkie · 05-03-2003, 10:56 PM

Anyone try to purchase one? As of 2/17/03, they were not avail although I am seeing conflicting info on it's current avail. There were doc back then too, but it was not yet avail for sale.

I think it's a neat little unit. I can't see why they would not follow through.

Eric

betteleal · 05-03-2003, 11:01 PM

Wow, that was fast.... I posted about the 16foot CCD (didn't think there was one) checked the Airstream site (oops, a great new site,,, with a 16 foot, 22 foot (mine) and a 28 foot CCD. All 3 great choices... Beautiful inside!!!So within an hour you were all responding. this is a great forum, the best!!Will have to become more active.

The CCD is the best design of all. like being in a space ship-the contemporary colors and sleek design make the space seem much larger than it is.

Good luck out there. The CCD (16, 22 or 28 feet) is a keeper. These will probably appreciate in value.

Good night all.

cmwarner · 05-03-2003, 11:12 PM

I am looking at a "State by State Towing Laws" page on www.rvcentral.com that states: Max. Weight in California is 1,500. (Also states max speed limit as 55, total length 65', width 8.6' height 13'). How is this possible? The online DMV gives a formula for tow vehicle vis-a-vis trailer, but I can't figure it out. Is that "RWD"? Eric, can you give this to me in simpler terms? I will have to back into appropriate towing vehicle, no pun intended, when I get proper weight of mystery trailer.

InsideOut · 05-03-2003, 11:36 PM

cmwarner ~

Quote:

Max. Weight in California is 1,500... How is this possible?

I believe the 1,500 pounds is what you are allowed without separate trailer brakes. If the trailer has brakes, which Airstreams do, it doesn't apply.

Quote:

For Trailers (Braking System Required) - Required over 1,500 lbs.

Here's a different towing regulation site (quote above) which clarifies this.

Shari

Silvertwinkie · 05-04-2003, 08:35 AM

That is a great site Shari.

Thanks for posting it.

Eric

rluhr · 05-07-2003, 09:38 AM

Well, there are hints out there that the long-promised 16-ft International CCD will be produced later this year.

In April, I had called an RV dealer out west who is actively listing the 16-ft CCD on RVTraderOnline.com. He admitted they don't really know if A/S was planning to ever build the 16-footer. After a callback, he "verified" that A/S was not going to build it.

The problems, he said, were that the 16-ft model lacks a shower, A/C, and is slated to cost over $31k -- which is more than the 19-ft Bambi.

But like some of you, I was intrigued by the little camper. The projected weight of 2,855 really opens up the potential range of tow vehicles. Finally, an A/S that can really be towed by a minivan or SUV! I was also encouraged by the fact that A/S mentioned in the brochure AND continues to promote the 16-ft CCD on the website. So I kept looking for indications...

The latest hints are from the A/S website and another site I found this week. On the A/S website you can now find a better description of the 16-ft CCD with some interior pictures. And at http://www.totemdesign.com/exhibitio...eam/index.html you can see that A/S is officially unveiling the 16-ft CCD next weekend in NYC!

See pictures attached for a look at the interior (slightly different view from the pics available at the A/S site).

All of the below are just my opinion:

The GOOD: The storage is surprisingly good for such a tiny trailer (under bed, under dinette, overhead cabinets everywhere, closet, etc.) Thank goodness they didn't carpet the darned thing. The wrap-around windows (front and rear) are terrific and really should help make the trailer feel bigger than it is. And no short-changing on the holding tanks!

Some people might care about the lack of an A/C unit, but personally I welcome it. We don't need it here in the north country and being rid of the extra 60 lbs is a good thing IMHO.

The bed (48x75) is basically the same as the 22 ft CCD, the holding tanks and dinette are similar to the 19th Bambi's, and the galley space is really not much smaller than the Bambi's either. So the compromises are limited.

The BAD: The bath looks a tad claustrophobic even with the frosted window. But there may be an exterior "porthole" window -- I can't tell from the pictures I've seen. No shower (but perhaps they will install at least an exterior shower, like many pop-ups?) They dropped the lavatory also, but I'm not sure how much of an issue this is -- if you are willing to cram into a 16-ft camper do you really need a second sink?

And the really BAD part: the price. At $31k+, it's just too much. A/S, can't you bring this price down to reality?

The UGLY: I still hate the black closet and the "Hazard Orange" color scheme, but at least it's not as pervasive as in the 28-ft CCD. I guess I can live with it.

-- RL

dtbw · 05-07-2003, 10:20 AM

With all the innovative things happening within the CCD lineup, why on earth did A/S allow ANYONE (who cares what awards the guy has won) to put Halloween orange in the 16 and 28 footer.

In looking at the specs, it does seem that A/S plans to allow for an A/C, at least as an option. They give the specs showing an overall height both with and without the AC.

If you look at the exterior pic on the A/S site, you will see 2 oblong windows in the toilet area, so the space should not be too bad, after all you are not spending that much time in there anyway...hopefully...LOL.

It is ashamed that A/S has priced the unit so high. I doubt that they get many takers at $31. My loaded Bambi (safari upgrade, front coach, overhead bunk) listed for $33 (I paid less as the dealer wanted to move it since the 03 models were arriving at the time) and it is a whole lot more trailer.

The layout of the 16 CCD makes me wonder if A/S should consider doing the same layout in a 19' version, which would give them room to correct the shower/lavatory omission and give the galley a bit more room. I REALLY like the rear bed with those wraparound windows.

Pick · 05-07-2003, 11:47 AM

There was one on the assembly line in November of last year. I went inside and looked around. I'll tell you this, the bathroom, or should I say "toilet room" is so small, it is almost unusable, in my opinion. I would say it would qualify as a dressing room, not a camper. Why anyone would pay 30 grand for something so small is beyond my understanding.

thenewkid64 · 05-07-2003, 01:12 PM

So you can tow it with an Intrepid and not require a Hensley?????

TBKP's Overlander · 05-07-2003, 04:05 PM

I think the orange is way cool. It's not for everyone. Grandmas and Grandpa can simply buy a non CCD International.

Silvertwinkie · 05-07-2003, 08:07 PM

"I think the orange is way cool. It's not for everyone. Grandmas and Grandpa can simply buy a non CCD International."

"So you can tow it with an Intrepid and not require a Hensley?????"

You boys need to play nice in the sand box!

Brett, lest not to scare off the rest of the northern folk and TB, Grandmas and Grandpas!

Oh and the real reason for my post here was to say I just got a copy of the WBCCI mag and it has three Internationals on the front cover from the baby 16' to the big dog.

Regards,

Eric

53flyingcloud · 05-07-2003, 11:30 PM

I will stick with my 1/18 scale model Bambi~!! At least it not colored for Halloweenie~!!

The best thing is: It only cost me 39.95$ plus shipping~

And, I can tow it with whatever happens to be handy~!~
Heck, I can even carry it under my arm~!!

It's main function, for now, is to signify when the Bar is open!~

ciao

dtbw · 05-08-2003, 10:23 AM

I have nothing against orange...in fact if you look at my photos you will notice that we used more subtle shades of orange in the makeover of our Bambi. While the more severe use of Orange in the CCD may well attract some buyers, it would have made the units more appealing to a wider audience if a choice of colors/woods had been offered. The CCD will not last if it is only a niche model. I do think the layouts of the CCDs are excellent and I actually like the exposed aluminum interior. I am disappointed that A/S chose to NOT put an underbelly on the Internationals which also means that the heated holding tanks (std on the Bambi, Safari, and Classics) are exposed, unheated tanks on the International. We seriously considered the 22CCD, but the wetbath and the underbelly issue caused it to loose out to the Bambi. We did not consider the fabrics or drapes as factors since we knew we would probably do a makeover almost immediately (as we did on the Bambi).

I firmly believe that the Internationals point to the future of A/S thinking and engineering with features initially appearing on the International and later in the Bambi,Safari and Classic lines.