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fenderltd · 06-19-2021, 03:24 PM

We have a 2021 Flying Cloud 23FB, and a 2021 Toyota Tundra 4X4 SR5, with Bilstein 4600 rear shocks - with a Blue Ox 750 lb bars and the the setup just doesn't feel right. We have posted on Airstream Addicts and received many conflicting replies. We've tried moved the ball down the shank, up the shank, tried multiple chain tensions and it either isn't level or seems to sway pretty good with passing cars/trucks.

We're at wits end with our setup and just keep seeing people towing 23,25,28 ft Airstreams with BMW X5's, Cayennes, and Touareg's who say they have no sway and are dialed in. We bought a 1/2 truck thinking we would be all set, the dealer originally setup the Blue Ox. Now I've never towed a trailer so maybe it's just what's it's supposed to feel like. I've now drive about 600 miles on trips and that's my only complaint. On the highways it just tends to not feel super secure.

Today we visited the cat scale and did 5 weights.
1.TV
2.TV & TRAILER no blue ox
3.TV & trailer blue ox original shank height setup by dealer on 8 links
4.TV & Trailer blue ox original shank height setup by dealer on 9 Links
5.***TV & Trailer blue ox lowered down one on 8 links

and I thought we were done so I topped off with gas and we thought the trailer looked a hair high in the front, so I decided to lower it down one and reweigh not thinking I just put in 12 gallons of fuel.

From my calculations I can find my hitch weight by
taking my original weight of just the truck drive axle 2880 and then subtract the other driver axle weights.

2.hitch weight is 800 with no weight distribution
3. hitch weight is 580
4. hitch weight is 480
5.* hitch weight is 560

What's really crazy as it seems we can lower the shank down 2 spots from where the dealer set it up and it still is level. One time we had it slightly down and it felt great on 7 links, but once it was windy and highway trucks flying buy it the trailer was all over the road so we pulled over and increase the links to 9.

I've tried measure the ball heigh, the coupler height, the fender heights before hitching, after etc. doing multiple laps around the local highway by house with various chain assortment lengths, and hitch ball heights...

We're in Grand Prairie, Texas and have reached out to a few Truck hitch places and no one emails or calls back. I've thought about taken it back to dealer but maybe it's setup just perfect and I'm just not use to it. I see people towing trailers quite a bit larger than mine with a Tundra and say its rock solid. I reach out to someone at Cam-am and they were kind, sent some documents, but suggested I get rid of the Blue Ox for a Eaz-Lift Elite kit with 800lb bars.

If anyone knows anyone in my area to help out kindly let me know. If you are a hitch whisper please let me know I would be grateful for your help.

Martee · 06-19-2021, 08:09 PM

I am towing a 2018 FC25FB Twin with a Tundra and using the Reese SteadiFlex Hitch with 1200lb bars. We just put 5000 miles on last month, and had zero sway issues even during high cross winds.

Your listed hitch weight is 591lbs for an empty trailer, and probably closer to 800lbs with full propane, awnings, roof top solar, clothing, food and equipment. Your loaded 23FB tongue weight should not be any issue for that Tundra. However, if it feels like you have sway when driving and your uncomfortable, that is an issue you need to resolve.

Toyota can install the rear TRD Sway bar on your Tundra, and the change in driving performance is astounding. The TRD sway bar was designed for off road driving, but it really helps during towing. It was very noticeable on my Tundra.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SB00QS...0GRVKH7PFZ88ZK

Your attempts to change setup on your hitch is a good idea, just in case the dealer missed something. But spend some time evaluating drive quality at each setting. You may just find the dealer setting was spot on. The Blue Ox has a strong and reliable history, though I am not familiar with that particular hitch.

I also would grab a flashlight and evaluate the underside of your Airstream, with a visual focus on the axles, frame and tounge and coupler area. Look for any trailer misalignment that may account for sway. I know it's a new trailer, but worth a check.

Dont laugh, but make sure your tires are at proper inflation, particularly if your tires are the factory Goodyear Endurance. These tires are Max 80psi, and Airstream plaque on trailer says that is recommended psi. But at that pressure your light trailer will literally "bounce" around the road, giving the feeling of sway. Decreasing to 65psi will result in a more comfortable drive and less stress on trailer, while still having superior strength and performance from those tires.

fenderltd · 06-19-2021, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martee

I am towing a 2018 FC25FB Twin with a Tundra and using the Reese SteadiFlex Hitch with 1200lb bars. We just put 5000 miles on last month, and had zero sway issues even during high cross winds.

Your listed hitch weight is 591lbs for an empty trailer, and probably closer to 800lbs with full propane, awnings, roof top solar, clothing, food and equipment. Your loaded 23FB tongue weight should not be any issue for that Tundra. However, if it feels like you have sway when driving and your uncomfortable, that is an issue you need to resolve.

Toyota can install the rear TRD Sway bar on your Tundra, and the change in driving performance is astounding. The TRD sway bar was designed for off road driving, but it really helps during towing. It was very noticeable on my Tundra.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002SB00QS...0GRVKH7PFZ88ZK

Your attempts to change setup on your hitch is a good idea, just in case the dealer missed something. But spend some time evaluating drive quality at each setting. You may just find the dealer setting was spot on. The Blue Ox has a strong and reliable history, though I am not familiar with that particular hitch.

I also would grab a flashlight and evaluate the underside of your Airstream, with a visual focus on the axles, frame and tounge and coupler area. Look for any trailer misalignment that may account for sway. I know it's a new trailer, but worth a check.

Dont laugh, but make sure your tires are at proper inflation, particularly if your tires are the factory Goodyear Endurance. These tires are Max 80psi, and Airstream plaque on trailer says that is recommended psi. But at that pressure your light trailer will literally "bounce" around the road, giving the feeling of sway. Decreasing to 65psi will result in a more comfortable drive and less stress on trailer, while still having superior strength and performance from those tires.

Thank you for the reply, and I agree that Tundra is more than capable to tow our trailer successfully, just trying to iron out a few kinks. I will check into the Toyota rear sway bar, and look underneath the trailer for anything that looks out of the ordinary. I do have TPMS and keep the tires at 80 psi cold, I had read prior to our trailer coming in a few others using lower PSI to avoid the trailer bouncing "apart" but the dealer tech was very adamant that 80 psi was extremely crucial and to keep it there. Do you tow at 65 psi cold?

Martee · 06-20-2021, 08:12 AM

I towed at 80psi for two years and started to see minor damage, most especially the entry door starting to misalign after long trips. And though I did not experience sway, my 25FB trailer would "bounce" on bad Interstate roads at normal highway speed. After spending time studying the Goodyear Endurance tire inflation charts, I realized running each tire at 80psi was unnecessary and unwise for the smaller and lighter Airstreams. I now run at 70psi and the overall ride quality has greatly increased. Next trip out I will test using 65psi for my 25FB.

As your 23FB trailer is much lighter than my 25FB, recommend using 65psi as a normal practice. I know it's hard to deviate from dealer recommendations, but at 65psi you should not see any increase in wear on your tires, and should experience a nice improvement in ride quality. Somewhere you can find a tire chart for Goodyear Endurance, showing four tires (2 axles x 2 tires) at 65psi gives 2540 x 4 or 10160lbs trailer load, much more than your trailer weight.
Attachment 397803

Mollysdad · 06-20-2021, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenderltd

dealer tech was very adamant that 80 psi was extremely crucial and to keep it there. Do you tow at 65 psi cold?

YES!

The tires do not say "Inflate to 80 psi". Instead what Good Year put on the tire is "FOR MAXIMUM LOAD inflate to 80 psi." You are not anywhere near maximum load.

I have a Tundra and I've never experienced sway. I could actually forget the trailer's back there.
But my tongue weight is near or at 1000# so that might be a factor.

Tin Tin · 06-20-2021, 09:31 AM

The Blue Ox is a Great hitch I have pulled the 23FB many miles with that hitch I did have 1000 lb bars though. Usually if the trailer is level and 8 to 9 links it should be very close to correct. Also you could review u Tube for a set up. I also use 70 lbs for tires. Good luck.

kdfulsome54 · 06-20-2021, 11:22 AM

I run 65psi in the Goodyear endurance tires on my 28ft international. Tires were at 80psi when I picked up the trailer from the dealership. Cabinets and drawers popped open just from the bounce. I reduced the pressure to 65psi and have pulled the trailer nearly 20,000 mile in the last 3 years with no problems. I also use the blue ox hitch. I have a loaded tongue weight of 1060lbs. I use the 1500 lb. bars and 9 links on the chains. I hope this helps.

Fungus · 06-20-2021, 11:23 AM

Use this worksheet to weigh your TV and AS.

Then use this calculator to get the report.

Weigh the individual axles, too. One point of leveling the trailer is to distribute the weight equally across the two axles. You won't know you've done that for certain until you check. My trailer looked level but felt unstable. The front axle was 660# lighter than the rear axle. I dropped the hitch a notch which put the axles within 40# of each other and increased stability.

Your wheels (hubs) have a max PSI, too. My trailer wheels are rated at 65 PSI, IIRC.

Martee · 06-20-2021, 12:22 PM

I remember reading about these very same tire inflation issues for a 23FB on a previous thread. I checked and found it here.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=223180

n2916s · 06-20-2021, 01:00 PM

At 80 psi on a lighter rig, you are effectively using the same tires as Fred Flintstone.

fenderltd · 06-20-2021, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fungus

Use this worksheet to weigh your TV and AS.

Then use this calculator to get the report.

Weigh the individual axles, too. One point of leveling the trailer is to distribute the weight equally across the two axles. You won't know you've done that for certain until you check. My trailer looked level but felt unstable. The front axle was 660# lighter than the rear axle. I dropped the hitch a notch which put the axles within 40# of each other and increased stability.

Your wheels (hubs) have a max PSI, too. My trailer wheels are rated at 65 PSI, IIRC.

Can I just put the front tires on the cat scale for the trailer and then the then just the rear to determine each axle weight? thank you everyone for the replies!!!

Profxd · 06-20-2021, 02:07 PM

So maybe it’s not a hitch/adjustment problem. You have about 11.3% TW which is on the low side for a RV TT. If the weight inside the trailer is not correctly distributed you can have sway problems at a lower TW. Weight added to the trailer should be centralized, above and slightly forward of the axles. Try to increase TW.

Fungus · 06-20-2021, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenderltd

Can I just put the front tires on the cat scale for the trailer and then the then just the rear to determine each axle weight? thank you everyone for the replies!!!

Multiple ways to do this.

Probably the best way is to put the rear trailer axle on the "trailer" scale (back) with the front trailer axle on the "drive" scale (middle) then subtract rear axle weight from your previous dual axle weight to arrive at front axle weight.

You could put the front trailer axle on the "steer" scale and the rear trailer axle on the "drive" scale, leaving the "trailer" scale empty. However, your TV's front axle may be on the downslope of the CAT platform tilting the hitch slightly upward which pushes some weight off the front trailer axle and onto the rear TV axle and the rear trailer axle.

JEB · 06-20-2021, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenderltd

We have a 2021 Flying Cloud 23FB, and a 2021 Toyota Tundra 4X4 SR5, with Bilstein 4600 rear shocks - with a Blue Ox 750 lb bars and the the setup just doesn't feel right. We have posted on Airstream Addicts and received many conflicting replies. We've tried moved the ball down the shank, up the shank, tried multiple chain tensions and it either isn't level or seems to sway pretty good with passing cars/trucks.

We're at wits end with our setup and just keep seeing people towing 23,25,28 ft Airstreams with BMW X5's, Cayennes, and Touareg's who say they have no sway and are dialed in. We bought a 1/2 truck thinking we would be all set, the dealer originally setup the Blue Ox. Now I've never towed a trailer so maybe it's just what's it's supposed to feel like. I've now drive about 600 miles on trips and that's my only complaint. On the highways it just tends to not feel super secure.

Today we visited the cat scale and did 5 weights.
1.TV
2.TV & TRAILER no blue ox
3.TV & trailer blue ox original shank height setup by dealer on 8 links
4.TV & Trailer blue ox original shank height setup by dealer on 9 Links
5.***TV & Trailer blue ox lowered down one on 8 links

and I thought we were done so I topped off with gas and we thought the trailer looked a hair high in the front, so I decided to lower it down one and reweigh not thinking I just put in 12 gallons of fuel.

From my calculations I can find my hitch weight by
taking my original weight of just the truck drive axle 2880 and then subtract the other driver axle weights.

2.hitch weight is 800 with no weight distribution
3. hitch weight is 580
4. hitch weight is 480
5.* hitch weight is 560

What's really crazy as it seems we can lower the shank down 2 spots from where the dealer set it up and it still is level. One time we had it slightly down and it felt great on 7 links, but once it was windy and highway trucks flying buy it the trailer was all over the road so we pulled over and increase the links to 9.

I've tried measure the ball heigh, the coupler height, the fender heights before hitching, after etc. doing multiple laps around the local highway by house with various chain assortment lengths, and hitch ball heights...

We're in Grand Prairie, Texas and have reached out to a few Truck hitch places and no one emails or calls back. I've thought about taken it back to dealer but maybe it's setup just perfect and I'm just not use to it. I see people towing trailers quite a bit larger than mine with a Tundra and say its rock solid. I reach out to someone at Cam-am and they were kind, sent some documents, but suggested I get rid of the Blue Ox for a Eaz-Lift Elite kit with 800lb bars.

If anyone knows anyone in my area to help out kindly let me know. If you are a hitch whisper please let me know I would be grateful for your help.

When I first brought my trailer home from the dealer, my Blue Ox performed terribly. After eight CAT scale weighs, two sets of spring bars, three hitch adjustments and three link positions, I finally have it dialed in. Turns out, my dealer supplied spring bars were too heavy, which resulted in the link setting being too low, which in turn resulted in two little deflection in the spring bars. Looking at your numbers, it looks to me like you might have a similar problem—insufficient deflection (“bow”) in the spring bars. At a dead hitch weight of 800, I would expect you to be at the 11th link on 750 lb bars but try this procedure to see if you can zero in on the correct setting.

First, make sure your trailer really is level at the existing hitch height. Don’t rely on your eyes or a bubble level. Find a level parking lot and with the trailer hitched up, measure the height of the frame in two places: 1. From the ground to the bottom of the frame just in front of the rear bumper; and 2. From the ground to the bottom of the frame on the tongue. For ease of reference, I pick the spot on the frame just under the front of the propane cover. Make sure these two measurements are the same or as close to the same as you can make them with hitch adjustments. If the front is too low, raise the hitch height up a notch and measure again. If too high after adjustment, go back to where you started. Better to be slightly too low than too high.

Second, go to a CAT scale with your now level trailer. Best if you can do this fully loaded and ready for travel. Drop the trailer and weigh just the truck. Pay close attention to the front axle weight. Now hitch up the trailer and put the spring bars on the 9th link (Blue Ox recommends use of the 9th, 10th or 11th links, which will provide between 2”-4” of deflection on the spring bars). Roll the trailer back onto the CAT scale and get another weight. Is the weight on the front axle the same or lower than the first measurement? If lower go to the 10th link and weigh again. Keep repeating the process until you get as close to the first front axle weight as you can without going over. If you are still not close to fully restored by the 11th link (within about 50 lbs or so), the spring bars are too light and you’ll need to start the process all over again with 1000# bars.

Once you have found the link that gets you closest to the unhitched front axle weight of your truck without going over, check to make sure that your trailer is still level. If it is, you are as dialed in as you’ll ever be with your current equipment. If not, drop the trailer hitch height one notch and repeat step 2 again. This will take time and some patience and possibly a $300 investment in a second set of spring bars, but you’ll eventually get there.

fenderltd · 06-21-2021, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Profxd

So maybe it’s not a hitch/adjustment problem. You have about 11.3% TW which is on the low side for a RV TT. If the weight inside the trailer is not correctly distributed you can have sway problems at a lower TW. Weight added to the trailer should be centralized, above and slightly forward of the axles. Try to increase TW.

We don't pack a ton, and I don't want to throw stuff we won't use etc to get the tongue weight up. We're still new so I'm sure we have stuff to acquire. For the 23FB, anything in front of the axles would contribute to tongue weight I think.

I guess it looks like the freshwater tank is forward so I will try to add 20 gallons or so to it to get more TW and see what that does for me.

fenderltd · 06-28-2021, 02:50 PM

Update:

I have ordered the 1000lb bars. With filling the fresh water all the way up my tongue would be 860-900 lbs so that's where I'm going to start with the new bars as well lowering the PSI to 65 in the tires.

Reading on here and a message to me said filling the fresh water up 1/3 or 1/2 way would cause the water to slush all around and might make the trailer more unstable - so I might be better off to fill it up all the way.

I called Blue Ox and they were like did you try the 10th or 11th link? I said no, It feels like it would bend the trailer frame in half to go on the 10th or 11.

I don't think it's a link issue, on the 8th link I'm within 20 pounds of my original front axle weight, and on the 9th link I'm within 40 pounds.

Martee · 06-28-2021, 04:11 PM

Fenderltd: sounds like your getting this tow hitch under control. Don't forget about the Tundra TRD rear sway bar for your tow vehicle. It really does make a difference in towing stability.

fenderltd · 06-28-2021, 09:03 PM

I got it and installed it on Saturday, the truck drives like a sports car now, no body roll what so ever!

fenderltd · 06-29-2021, 09:23 PM

I am curious to the other Tundra owners where you're at on the blue ox shank though, how many down from the top. I know all trucks and trailers are different I'm just curious!

GettinAway · 06-30-2021, 09:18 AM

We used to pull a 23FB and now pull a 25FB, both with a 2012 Toyota Tundra 4x4. I found the 23 to have a greater tendency to sway than my 25 does. I’m not an expert, but I think (I’m guessing) that the lighter tongue weight of the 23FB is a factor. We found our 23 to be more stable with the water tank filled, and zero in the black and grey tanks. We had a EasyHitch or something like that. We switched to a Blue Ox when we bought the 25. That may also be a factor in reduced sway with the 25.
Hope you get it worked out.
Edit, reading more posts. I did put the TRD sway bar on the Tundra with the switch to the 25. I also “later” added a roadmaster active suspension that reduced porpoising a lot. It also raised the back end of the Tundra a bit so my hitch setting probably won’t help. I also had the 25 lifted 3”.