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Old 09-29-2020, 06:02 PM   #1
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2021 f150

Big boost in capability. Tows up to 14,000 lbs, engine makes 430 hp and 570 torque w/payload up to 3325 lbs.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-towing-specs/
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Old 09-29-2020, 06:19 PM   #2
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I would never ever by this engine. Turbos with v6 for towing is a bomb waiting to happen
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Old 09-29-2020, 08:48 PM   #3
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I would never ever by this engine. Turbos with v6 for towing is a bomb waiting to happen
Whereas I absolutely LOVE my V6 Turbo. It tows my 23FB up the slopes in the Rocky Mountains without slowing down. Of course, I don't drive faster than 62 anytime I am towing. But then, this is only my 4th season with this truck/trailer combo.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:53 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Flht2k View Post
Turbos with v6 for towing is a bomb waiting to happen
Considering there are literally millions of these out there towing perhaps you can provide some examples to substantiate your blather?
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Old 09-30-2020, 07:44 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
Big boost in capability. Tows up to 14,000 lbs, engine makes 430 hp and 570 torque w/payload up to 3325 lbs.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-towing-specs/
With the 430hp / 570tq engine it has 12,700 pounds with a 2120-pound maximum payload.
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Old 09-30-2020, 11:38 PM   #6
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Considering there are literally millions of these out there towing perhaps you can provide some examples to substantiate your blather?
Sure. As with any engine, engine components are made to last, correct. Engines are designed for specific tasks, correct. In this case, they are claiming that you can tow due to torque and hp rating. During the boost process, the engine is only meeting the specs when in use. The engine will have lower specs when not in use. But towing any trailer requires this engine to be in boost mode the entire time and this is when this setup is at its crucial stage, it is not designed for this type of use. A better example, diesel's depending on the configuration have high torque and low hp, when the engine requires an extra kick, the turbo kicks in, and only than does it reach the maximum specs. I have 6.4 hemi, it is rated at 410 hp and 425 torque, when driving flat I am using the minimum spec, when rpm reach 3500 I am reaching the quoted spec. I work for a cummins/Freightliner service center as the warranty manager and I see everyday what works and what does not. My friends have the eco boost ford towing a 6500 rated trailer, those engines are blowing up around 70-75 k when used for towing. Not all of them, but a big sample size. I would proceed with caution. Read a few post up, the post states I drive 62 mph. Obviously for safety. But durability, I don't think so.
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Old 10-01-2020, 12:36 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Flht2k View Post
I would never ever by this engine. Turbos with v6 for towing is a bomb waiting to happen

Hi, this reminds me of the time that I replaced my Chevrolet truck with a Ford truck. People told me that I would be sorry for buying a Ford truck because the transmissions only last for 75,000 miles. That made me feel good because the Chevrolet transmission went out at 25,000 miles.

All engines are bombs waiting to happen; When and where is the question.
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:21 AM   #8
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I have a v6 F150 pulling a 25. 25k miles pulled and 55k total. Only problem has been a leaking oil pan. I have always been curious about how the V6 Ecoboost holds up towing at high mileage. Lets do a poll, what are others experience with the v6 Ecoboost, particularly high mileage?
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Flht2k View Post
Sure. As with any engine, engine components are made to last, correct.
Not surprisingly you provided no examples of those engines being bombs. I understand they, like all trucks, are electro/mechanical systems that can fail. That is a given. You intimated that a V-6 turbo is particularly susceptible to failure. If so surely with as many as there are on the road there would be some third party links you could provide showing they are more likely than others to be problematic. Otherwise it's just all blather that does nothing to further the conversation.
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Old 10-01-2020, 06:56 AM   #10
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I would like to know sample size. Not all of them, but some of them is really vague. It is like when I was in leadership and I would get this complaint, Well you know everybody says blah bla blah...” I then went out and did my own survey and found just the opposite. The person complaining was projecting.

I talked to the Ford sales guy who said the major problem the Ecoboost has is that the turbos aren’t used enough and they get clogged up.

Then there is the tow all time phrase. What does that mean? I tow 6 or 7 times a year. Certainly not daily or even weekly. So why would I buy a diesel to tow all the time. Again my sales guy who tows often says the only way a diesel really pays is if towing daily or weekly. Otherwise it makes no financial sense. Because fixing them is really expensive.

For those towing an airstream daily and weekly then a diesel makes perfect sense. Otherwise it makes no sense.
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:15 AM   #11
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But towing any trailer requires this engine to be in boost mode the entire time and this is when this setup is at its crucial stage, it is not designed for this type of use.
I have a turbo boost gauge that tells me when it is in turbo mode. Why does that gauge not tell me it is turbo mode when I am towing if it is "in boost mode the entire time"? Does Ford disable that gauge when towing for some reason?
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Old 10-01-2020, 07:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Flht2k View Post
it is not designed for this type of use.
That is the quote upon which your statement hinges, and it is not supported at all. You don't work at Ford and have no idea if this engine was built for this type of use.

Sigh.
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:24 AM   #13
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This age-old debate about 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton, gas vs. diesel, etc is much better supported when using actual facts as related to weights, capacities, fuel consumption and any other data that is actually black and white. Either data that is published by the manufacturers or either hard data on these measures obtained by the users. And of course the occasional opinions stated by the users based on their personal preference or experience. That makes for a healthy debate/discussion(presidential candidates may want to take note). But to simply just throw out there that engines are blowing up at high mileage because of towing without any supporting specific facts is just not a responsible statement.
I find it hard to believe that Ford, or any other vehicle manufacturer would publish data that promotes year after year that their equipment is rated and capable of performing and handling the tasks that they claim, if it simply were not true. Ford would soon be out of business.
I have only personally known of one catastrophic engine failure with an F150/Eco Boost at high mileage and it was a clear case of lack of maintenance and just plain abuse.
Any mechanical device will eventually fail if not properly maintained.
I have driven both ECO and Powerstroke Turbo Diesels and the statement about the ECO being in constant Turbo under a load is simply hogwash.
I am sure most people on this forum know this but towing is a marriage between engine and transmission. The newer F150's have the same 10 speed torque shift transmission as the Ford HD trucks. This allows the Eco-Boost (and other engines) to operate under loads and tow more efficiently at lower RPM's, thus preventing (in most cases) the engines from "blowing up", if of course properly maintained and if operated within the limits and capacities published by Ford,
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Old 10-01-2020, 11:04 PM   #14
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This age-old debate about 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton, gas vs. diesel, etc is much better supported when using actual facts as related to weights, capacities, fuel consumption and any other data that is actually black and white. Either data that is published by the manufacturers or either hard data on these measures obtained by the users. And of course the occasional opinions stated by the users based on their personal preference or experience. That makes for a healthy debate/discussion(presidential candidates may want to take note). But to simply just throw out there that engines are blowing up at high mileage because of towing without any supporting specific facts is just not a responsible statement.
I find it hard to believe that Ford, or any other vehicle manufacturer would publish data that promotes year after year that their equipment is rated and capable of performing and handling the tasks that they claim, if it simply were not true. Ford would soon be out of business.
I have only personally known of one catastrophic engine failure with an F150/Eco Boost at high mileage and it was a clear case of lack of maintenance and just plain abuse.
Any mechanical device will eventually fail if not properly maintained.
I have driven both ECO and Powerstroke Turbo Diesels and the statement about the ECO being in constant Turbo under a load is simply hogwash.
I am sure most people on this forum know this but towing is a marriage between engine and transmission. The newer F150's have the same 10 speed torque shift transmission as the Ford HD trucks. This allows the Eco-Boost (and other engines) to operate under loads and tow more efficiently at lower RPM's, thus preventing (in most cases) the engines from "blowing up", if of course properly maintained and if operated within the limits and capacities published by Ford,

This is not a discussion whether or not this product or any other product is good or not. I am only stating through years of working in an industry, that engine manufacturer's or any other company is not going to air dirty laundry. I can assure you that all companies including many of you out there have kept your company's dirty laundry quiet. It makes for bad business if it gets out. That is why in the engine community, it would be death to that product line. An easy stat, can be verified by anyone here, have any of you taken a vehicle into a shop with a complaint and the company has said, "oh wait, there is a technical service bulletin regarding this issue". Yes you have. What happens next, we join forums to see if others have experienced this issue, before you know it, it spreads and depending on the company, we all hope that they respond. Reread my post, I only stated that this particular setup is not recommended for continuous towing. Go to YouTube, they discuss benefits and pitfalls with this and other engine setups. This setup is an excellent choice for everyday driving and the occasional tow. No where did I mention any comparisons of engine choice, mine is personal experience of now my hemi performs.. I prefer gasoline engines due to maintenance cost and upfront costs, other like diesel for the torque, and others prefer this setup.

I will share a little statistic, Cummins is having one of the largest recalls in engine history. Essentially, every truck that has a SCR installed has to be replaced from 2012 forward . Also, have your tried to purchase a used Ram lately? Many dealerships within the last few years have not been able to sell them due to mechanical breakdowns with water pumps,egr valves and egr coolers issues, legally they have to sit untill a campaign is created. Once again, not all. Oh , not enough, they are having such a difficult time with emissions in California, that if you own one, you have to provide a certificate that your engine has been updated for registration. That is not ALL models, but many of you are lucky to be able to go to your truck , start it and drive. Many of you have had problems and have kept that to yourself. This is an example of a company that let this go on since 2012. And only after years of investigation, did they have to acknowledge the issue. Footnote.. the recall effect commercial delivery step vans,( fed ex, cintas), tow trucks, and the smaller models using the 6.7 liter. Oh wait, doesn't Ram use that engine? Have not heard non commercial trucks being affected.

Lastly, I am person that does judge your opinion, this post is about dialogue. I can not give exact figures nor do I suggest to have. I have been involved in this industry since the 90's. I have seen improvement and disasters many times over.
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Old 10-02-2020, 02:06 AM   #15
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These ecoboost engines are, on paper, more powerful than Ford's superduty engines. Yet the bigger trucks do not use them. In fact ford went with a bigger v8 (7.3 l) with its recent engine addition.

Is that not telling on how these ecoboost engines are for real work?

Not knocking the engine for other purposes, including some towing.

Just trying to be logical.
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:54 AM   #16
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The notion that the ecoboost is in full boost when towing is baloney. Towing a 27FB on the freeway my ecoboost shows no boost needed at cruise. Sure, the turbo winds up on a climb, but rests easy descending on the other aide of the hill. I've got about 20,000 towing miles out of the 62,000 on the truck. Will let you know of the engine blows up, but there's no indication of that now.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:00 AM   #17
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I would think that with the huge number of people towing with F150 Ecoboosts, it would be all over the forums if these engines were failing in any significant numbers.

Yet, very few mentions here or on IRV2.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:08 AM   #18
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"Turbo V6 in a truck is a bomb waiting to be happen" to "I'm not stating whether this product is any good" in the span of a dozen total posts makes me think you're not exactly a reliable source.
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Old 10-02-2020, 08:38 AM   #19
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Internal industry data indicates the 3.5 Eco-Boost is more reliable than average across the pool of 1/2 ton trucks. typical life is just north of 200,000 miles. Biggest issues are frequent throttle body wear and trouble with timing gear and system wear, mostly driven by running oil for too long as the turbo's degrade the oil a bit fast.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:49 AM   #20
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Don't forget the Lemans and Daytona race cars that Ford built with 3.5 litre Ecoboost engines. Stock Ecoboost blocks, heads, direct injection, etc. 800 hp in endurance racing trim. 1000 hp in dyno tests. 600 hp for IMSA races due to regulations on throttle restrictors.

And that was 5 years ago.

What poster flht2k is trying to get at is duty cycle and load factor. The error is that towing an Airstream does not significantly increase the load factor over the life of the vehicle. Sure, there are times you may be at wide open throttle when accelerating up a climb. But average load factors are very similar to operating solo. This is why people tow 30 foot trailers with minivans successfully for tens of thousands of miles; it doesn't take the sort of horsepower to tow that people think it does.

Heavy trucks are a different story.
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