Temperature freeze damage occurs

[Billyjeter]

I had to leave town unexpectedly and have not completely winterized our 2018 International. I had drained the hot water tank, gray and black tank and had run the water pump until no water was dripping. I have not blown out the lines or put in antifreeze.It is going to get down to 28 for a couple of hours. What kind of damage am I to except?

[wulfraat]

28 degrees for 2 hours = no damage.

[Billyjeter]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

28 degrees for 2 hours = no damage.

Well that makes me feel better!

[Caffeinated]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

28 degrees for 2 hours = no damage.

Umm. Maybe. Do you feel lucky, punk?

Mike

[Dennis C]

It depends on the daytime high temperature. If it’s relatively warm during the day, say 40 or 50 degrees, then you should be okay below freezing for a couple of hours. If you have an extended period of time with temperatures below freezing, then you could have trouble. I don’t think tanks are the major concern. The bigger concern in my opinion is water in the lines that could freeze and rupture a line.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by Caffeinated

Umm. Maybe. Do you feel lucky, punk?

Mike

Maybe it depends on where the 'freeze' is.
In the tanks...not so much.
In the lines...much.

Bob
🇺🇸

[Captn.Ken]

I would, based on experience, think there would be no damage considering the short time span.

[Luna1967]

Even our 1999 Excella Classic is plumbed with PEX, which is designed to expand 10x its diameter before bursting. I’m sure you’ll be fine!

[vanderwielen]

The thermal mass of the ground most likely will keep your unit from freezing. (since you are in Arkansas). I watch my exterior temps on my Victron Cerbo, about 1' from the ground and this time of year, it's amazing how much difference there will be from my weather station. Later in the winter, not so much of a difference.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The real answer is that there is no exact answer.

How strong is the wind?

Which way is the wind blowing?

How sheltered is your campsite?

Are you running the heaters?

Is the temp at the weather station or measured at your campsite?

If at the weather station, is your campsite 5 degrees off from there ( it does happen ...)?

Is the water hose still connected?

Folks camp out all the time in the 20's with water still in the trailer. When we do this, we take some care about the nasty details above. It can get pretty cold and things will be ok, if you are not on the wrong side of some little gotcha.

Bob

[greenflag]

PEX is very forgiving. Here in the high desert it routinely falls into 20's at night. On occasion into the high teens. I have yet to have a problem with the plumbing.

[jeffb831]

Originally Posted by Luna1967

Even our 1999 Excella Classic is plumbed with PEX, which is designed to expand 10x its diameter before bursting. I’m sure you’ll be fine!

Did you mean 10%? Or is it actually designed to expand 10x?

[John Millner]

Originally Posted by Billyjeter

I had to leave town unexpectedly and have not completely winterized our 2018 International. I had drained the hot water tank, gray and black tank and had run the water pump until no water was dripping. I have not blown out the lines or put in antifreeze.It is going to get down to 28 for a couple of hours. What kind of damage am I to except?

Not sure this helps but I left my Interstate at the Mercedes dealership for repairs and told them that since i didn't yet winterize and the temps will be in the 20's overnight that they keep the vehicle indoors which they said they would. They didn't.
When I came to pick up the vehicle my water pump didn't turn on and i thought the worst. They apologized.
I put my vehicle in a 50 degree heated garage for a day and the pump worked, no leaks and all seems to be ok.
I guess there must be more variables to consider fyi

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Luna1967

Even our 1999 Excella Classic is plumbed with PEX, which is designed to expand 10x its diameter before bursting. I’m sure you’ll be fine!

But there is zero expansion capability with the toilet pedal valve. Not much water there, but it is enough to crack the valve if it freezes (been there, done that).

[tjansen]

Do you have someone that can run the heater? Set on 60 and you should be good. Or put in a space heater or 2. Cheap insurance.

[Atwebs]

Probably none...

Damage caused by freezing temperatures is due to the expansion of the water in enclosed places when it freezes. Just like an ice cube, it expands as it freezes, enclosed in plastic, something has to give!.

Scary as it sounds, it takes quite a bit of freezing cold with no higher "day" temperatures. And, if you've drained the tanks and the fresh water you don't have too much to freeze. We are Northern California and we get several days of freezing weather at a time, but we've never winterized and we've never had any damage either. Drain the fresh water, drain the black and gray tanks and watch the daily highs and lows.

We dp have a cabin that is exposed to freezing from about October through April and we do winterize that. Drain the tanks, put a small amount of antifreeze in the drain lines and leave the taps open (water off) so any expansion of water in the lines just causes a drip.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by tjansen

Do you have someone that can run the heater? Set on 60 and you should be good. Or put in a space heater or 2. Cheap insurance.

Space heater won't penetrate into all the areas where the piping is. Furnace outlets are designed to provide blow hot air into those places. When freezing weather occurred in early spring or prior to winterizing, I would turn on the water heater to its electric mode and would set the furnace thermostat to its minimum setting. That would assure nothing got damaged.

Lot's of factors about 28 degrees and to assume it won't cause damage is risky at best.

Jack

[Luna1967]

Originally Posted by Hermes

But there is zero expansion capability with the toilet pedal valve. Not much water there, but it is enough to crack the valve if it freezes (been there, done that).

We keep two heaters in the Excella, one at the bathroom door, October thru April geared to keep her in the mid-50’s when we’re not using her. She lives on our island property, 3 hours away if everything aligns perfectly… Our neighbor has the extra keys, know how, and checks in on the coach at times like this (19 degrees &#128563.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok, so what *can* get damaged:

1) Any PEX crimp that wasn't quite right and then separates. (The tube is fine, the fitting may be ok, but maybe some guy named Bob did the crimp .... ).

2) Faucets and valves of any sort (metal or plastic). If there is enough water in them then can freeze and burst. Drain valves on the black and gray tanks are in this category and they sit right out in the breeze. ( yes it takes a lot of cooling to freeze them ... how strong is the wind?). Outdoor shower faucets are in this category as well. Those cute little low point drain valves hanging down under the trailer .... yup, they are on the list.

3) The pressure regulator on the city water intake. This beast sits right by the water intake fitting along with a back flow prevention valve. One or the other can / does / might freeze. They are "right there" in terms of being in the outside air. Not crazy hard to replace if they do get damaged.

4) The water heater is the biggie interns of the cost of the device. It takes a *lot* to freeze a water heater. The same insulation that keeps the water hot also protects a bit from cooling. Even a modest amount of water can ruin one if it freezes.

5) Drain traps if you have them. A lot of RV's are set up with little inline "flapper gizmos" rather than a normal trap with water in it. Even the flapper version holds some water so they are not immune to damage.

The big deal in all of this is something that lets go un-noticed. Water gets everywhere and sits for a long time. That damage is not cheap to fix.

In a normal fall setting, you are parked over un-frozen ground. Also the wind in most places dies down at night. The underside of your RV stays warmer than the surrounding air. If the air is at 25 degrees, it may be 40 degrees under the RV. Have a strong wind come along from the "wrong" direction and that all changes. Simple answer: Pick a campsite that is a bit sheltered ....

Fun !!

Bob

[62olander]

Originally Posted by tjansen

Do you have someone that can run the heater? Set on 60 and you should be good. Or put in a space heater or 2. Cheap insurance.

This would be the best thing to do if you can get someone to turn the heat on. Will like be ok anyway as others have said. Good luck