Expion 360 Battery 120AH ????

[Milo1952]

Just started exploring lithium batteries. just for arguments sake

Battleborn 100AH 31lbs 12.75 x 6.875 x 9 inches
Relion 100AH 29.8lbs 13 x 6.8 x 8.8 inches
Expion360 120AH 32lbs 10 1/4 x 6 3/4 x 8 7/8 inches
1lb heavier than BB with 20 % more AH. How is this magic accomplished ?
How do you fit more cells into a smaller container ????
Interstate group 24 11 x 6 7/8 x 9 1/2 inches
It's even smaller than a group 24 Interstate

Battleborn claims 3000 cycles at 100% discharge.
Expion 360 claims 1500-2000 cycles at 100& discharge
Relion claims 3500 cycles at 100% but recommend on discharging
80-90% to avoid the BMS disconnecting the battery. So if you discharge only 80AH it gives you 3500 cycles but 20% less in AH's.
The Expion

I understand how close in weight & size BB & Relion are, but the Expion
is 15-20 % smaller and some how packs more cells into a smaller space,
I need one of the electrical engineers to explain this to me. The Expion also delivers 1000 less cycles as BB.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Milo1952

I understand how close in weight & size BB & Relion are, but the Expion

is 15-20 % smaller and some how packs more cells into a smaller space,

I need one of the electrical engineers to explain this to me. The Expion also delivers 1000 less cycles as BB.

Might be a different chemistry and use smaller form factor cells. Or might not have an integrated BMS reducing battery height.

AM solar sell the expion and battleborn - you could give them a shout and ask.

For lithium ion, you pretty much get what you pay for. Cheaper packs (not necessarily less expensive, just cheaper construction) don’t have the same cycle lifespan nor can you charge or draw at the same currents as higher end packs. That may or may not matter given your intended use and desired lifespan.

Victron who use Winston prismatic cells pretty much set the standard in my opinion. But you pay for it and they are a bit heavier and require external BMS, adding complexity to the install.

Battleborn are next best in my humble opinion and probably deliver the best bang for the buck.

The expion360 rated at 120ah only has a max 80A discharge rate. Thats less than 1C. That’s concerning in my opinion as it speaks to cell and construction quality. But again, that limitation may be fine for your install and use.... battleborns are rated right at 1C discharge rate. So 100ah battery can be discharged at 100A continuous.

Victron by comparison can be safely discharged at 2C or 200A on a 100ah battery. This is helpful / pertinent with high demand applications like running your air conditioner through a 3000w or 5000w inverter. But once again - may not matter for your intended use.

Finally none of these packs allow for 100% discharge. Battleborn de-rate their packs - they actually put 120ah of cells leaving about 100ah available before the BMS cuts off discharge. They rate the battery at 100ah evening though actual capacity is greater.

[fran&frank]

Check out Will Prowse's DIY solar you tube site; he does some nice reviews of lithium batteries. He thinks the Battleborn is well made but has found problems with some other brands.-- Frank