Does $4000 sound reasonable for Lithium

[bcheever]

We live in Seattle and just got through our first season with our 2021 Caravel 22FB.

We have a 200w Zamp solar suitcase and another 100w Zamp panel on the rooftop. Although the power generation was nothing at all like when we were in Arizona or southern Utah, we still got a fair amount of power just from the solar panels camping here in the PNW - enough to keep the fridge, water pump and lights going for a while.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by jmslade

My dealership quoted $3500 for the heated BBs and converter.

Hawk-ination—Why won’t the existing wires on the AGMs work to hook up the Lithiums if you’re just dropping/swapping?

Hi

If you are putting in the heated BB's there is a control switch that turns the heaters on and off. You need to run a wire between the two batteries and then run another wire off into the trailer. That wire goes to a switch in some semi-rational location. Hopefully it's put where you won't bump it and accidentally turn on the heaters ....

More detail:

The heaters have a thermostat on them even when turned on, they will not fire up until it gets pretty cold. The cut in around freezing and then shut off when the battery gets up to around 50F. They keep doing this cool down / heat up process as long as the heater is powered.

The heaters pull a couple of amps so it's not a big deal for the converter charger to keep them going. It is enough that you do not want to run the heaters on battery power. Accidentally leaving the heater on could flatten the batteries.

Bob

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

^
???

Why is 'heated' needed?
Where does the heat come from, shore power?

Lithium batteries can freeze in very cold temperatures, so the heated version use its own power to heat itself.

https://www.powerelectronics.com/tec...he-winter-woes

I'm kind of old school, a battery that consumes it's own power to stay alive in cold weather is somewhat self defeating, in addition to having to pay a premium for it.

I'm sticking to industrial grade deep cycle batteries for the time being (it's been 3 years now and my batteries are doing just fine with a quality solar controller that monitors battery temperature and charge).

I don't live in the Pacific Northwest but monocrystalline solar panels will produce power in less than high noon sunny conditions, and if you have enough of them, they will maintain your batteries. I configured my setup for the shoulder seasons when we boondock, when it's cloudy and we need to run the furnace. So far so good.

[John Spilker]

Originally Posted by FredWilma

I have exactly the same trailer and had exactly the same issue. I did the conversion myself. Bought two heated GC2 batteries directly from Battleborn and an upgraded converter from my local holiday world. 30 minutes to change out the converter (5 wires) and about the same to swap out the batteries.

I also have solar so I had to change the profile on the solar controller (under bed on left side) by simply turning the selector to position 7.

That was it. Total time about 90 minutes. Total cost $1900.

Battleborn currently have their batteries on sale on their website.

Happy to provide more info if needed. Good luck.

Thanks. This is the reply I was hoping to receive. Could you send me the name and part number of the component you installed? My brother-in-law is an electrician and I suspect would be happy to help out. Was the wiring of the new part correspond directly to the old part? Thanks so much. My email is john.spilker@outlook.com

[WHUDS22]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

If they are charging $4,000 for a pair of batteries. One would guess that 200W of solar from the same source / done the same way would be in the 2,000 to $3,000 range ....

Bob

The portable ones? That plug in? Not roof ones.

I was asking because I'm thinking of getting Zamp portable panels or Renology to plug in and recharge my two AGMs for short boondocking....my 2018 has a Zamp port and they run 300 to 800 usd

[Ken G]

I purchased two Lithium iron phosphate batteries on sale @ Costco for roughly $1100 + tax. My trailer already has solar and I am still shopping for a lithium converter charger. (they seem to run $300 - $400) That being said the Lion Safari batteries are still a big improvement over the AGMs that came with the 23fb. In regular use I can tell they have much more capacity after running furnace on cold winter nights as well as using inverter for entertainment. They are much lighter too, I just installed in stock box on tongue as I doubt freezing will ever be an issue for us.

[field & stream]

Originally Posted by John Spilker

Thanks. This is the reply I was hoping to receive. Could you send me the name and part number of the component you installed? My brother-in-law is an electrician and I suspect would be happy to help out. Was the wiring of the new part correspond directly to the old part? Thanks so much. My email is john.spilker@outlook.com

This is a wonderful solution. Now that you have the labor costs under control, I recommend you spend a little over $200 for a Victron 712 battery monitor (I have one and they are great) and a little over $100 for a dc to dc converter (currently on sale from Renogy).

[gypsydad]

Guess I am seeing more arguments against going Li than for! I have been watching these posts for a past 4 years, while my 2 Trojan 6v T105s keep providing powere without changing out any components. Keep thinking I am missing something, but now not so sure. If it ain't broke, don't fix it? I have both 80w portable gopower solar, and propane Honda2200 generator and no power issues...other than in my minid, the "Li crowd" has me convinced I'm missing something.. I think better spent $$ is on wifi boost equipment and perhaps a portable Li box as backup...just not convinced that would be good investment for Li either...am I missing smething?

[Texarado]

For me, it is about making a tongue-lightening upgrade while hopefully giving some improvement (draining to 20% instead of 50%). That said, I’m going to do my upgrade after taking delivery next Saturday so I’m completely in the world of “theoretical” right now.

[guskmg]

Call AM Solar, they are in Oregon, and are always happy to recommend system kits and installers. I have had one of their systems since 2016 with out any problems.
guskmg

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Ken G

I purchased two Lithium iron phosphate batteries on sale @ Costco for roughly $1100 + tax. My trailer already has solar and I am still shopping for a lithium converter charger. (they seem to run $300 - $400) That being said the Lion Safari batteries are still a big improvement over the AGMs that came with the 23fb. In regular use I can tell they have much more capacity after running furnace on cold winter nights as well as using inverter for entertainment. They are much lighter too, I just installed in stock box on tongue as I doubt freezing will ever be an issue for us.

Just posted; I talked with Costco in ID last month and here in TX yesterday about Costco carrying Li batteries...was told both places, after they discussed with tire/battery depts. Costco does not sell Li; need to go talk with Interstate....now, i know sometimes there are these "road shows" and they do offer a few different solar, Li "generator"(they call it a generator) and single 12V Li 130A Li's. Saw one yesterday for $650 with "lifetime warranty". No heater, and the guy said they will only be in Costco for another week...could not tell me how long the company was in business, and I did not take a picture...he was not happy when I told him his "generator" was just a Li battery...and not a generator. He insisted it was a "generator", because it can be charged with 110ac or solar! Anyway, I keep seeing folks here say Costco offers Li batteries...where and whose are they?? (and how much?)

[Texarado]

I received my pair of batteries after ordering from the following link:

https://www.costco.com/lion-energy-s...100663833.html

Deal ends today, allegedly.

[field & stream]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Guess I am seeing more arguments against going Li than for! I have been watching these posts for a past 4 years, while my 2 Trojan 6v T105s keep providing powere without changing out any components. Keep thinking I am missing something, but now not so sure. If it ain't broke, don't fix it? I have both 80w portable gopower solar, and propane Honda2200 generator and no power issues...other than in my minid, the "Li crowd" has me convinced I'm missing something.. I think better spent $$ is on wifi boost equipment and perhaps a portable Li box as backup...just not convinced that would be good investment for Li either...am I missing smething?

Personally, I don’t think you (and a whole lot of others) are missing anything — and I just installed lithium, a new converter, a dc to dc converter, and a Victron battery monitor!

For folks who are “plugged in”, lithium doesn’t offer much more than weight savings and a possible 10 year payback. By plugged in I mean to either shore power or a generator.

It was a great move for us because we are after the Nature experience and we don’t stay in RV parks or want anything to do with the hassles and impacts of generators. This setup (along with a propane fridge) allows us to camp for a week or two without recharging.

[GMFL]

That pretty high for just 2 batteries and a converter

[Presitla99]

Originally Posted by John Spilker

Hi, We just purchased a 2021 22-foot Caravel but haven't been pleased with the lead-acid battery performance. We live in the rainy Seattle area and will do most of our camping in the Pacific Northwest so solar isn't high on our priority list. We've been quoted $4000 for a Battle Born lithium conversion. I assume our trailer needs a new converter to handle the batteries. It seems like a lot of money but I've never purchased such a thing before. Thanks.

I am getting same conversion in JC in 2 weeks for about $4200. Batteries are heated. your quote seems reasonable.

[PatLee]

Why not just go with some AGMs and see how they work for you?

[gator.bigfoot]

I added 300 watts of solar and 400AH of Lifeline AGM batteries along with a PWM controller and battery monitor all the wiring for around 2500. No need to worry about freezing. Trailer has been running off the grid now for 6 years as the converter has been disconnected. Runs great. I never run out of power. The lowest it's gone to is 84% and that was after 4 days solid rain. I just shovel off the snow in the winter.

[Gene]

How much boondocking are you going to do? Unless you do a lot, seems like too much money. Ease into this. There are less expensive upgrades to start with as you develop your style of Airstreaming.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Lithium batteries can freeze in very cold temperatures, so the heated version use its own power to heat itself......

[.

Hi

Yes, a lithium battery will freeze down around -55F or so. Depending on state of charge, your lead acid batteries might freeze solid by then or possibly at a much higher temperature ( like maybe 20F ....).

The LiFePO4 batteries we use in RV's are a very specific formulation with specific properties. When you head off to Mr Google and start looking at *all* batteries with Lithium in their name .... you are going to get very confused very quickly. Different chemistries behave *very* differently in a number of way.

The "heated" batteries are very simple. You turn on a heater and it gets you another 10 degrees of "range' to charge the batteries. If you spend a lot of time in your AS when it's below freezing all day, this may be useful. For most of us, the trailer is put away with anti-freeze in the pipes long before this becomes an issue ....

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by field & stream

Personally, I don’t think you (and a whole lot of others) are missing anything — and I just installed lithium, a new converter, a dc to dc converter, and a Victron battery monitor!

For folks who are “plugged in”, lithium doesn’t offer much more than weight savings and a possible 10 year payback. By plugged in I mean to either shore power or a generator.

It was a great move for us because we are after the Nature experience and we don’t stay in RV parks or want anything to do with the hassles and impacts of generators. This setup (along with a propane fridge) allows us to camp for a week or two without recharging.

We do boondock also from time to time, but with the portable solar suitecase to top off the 6V Trojans, and propane Honda generator as backup, we also go for a week or so without any issues. The 2- 6V T105 Trojans are much better than the 12V Interstates we used to have in our previous 3 AS's as far as service goes. Never have any issues even when running the heater from time to time while boondocking. I am still thinking a "backup" Li portable pack (like the Goal Zero Yeti or Jackery) could be the ticket...extra power, portability for other devices, and backup if needed.