|
|
12-25-2021, 09:10 AM
|
#1
|
Mini Rivet
1975 25' Tradewind
Holland
, Michigan
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 273
|
Using truck as generator while idling, is it possible?
Looks like this can not be done but I thought I'd ask before I abandon this idea and just stick with a portable generator.
Is it possible to add a second and totally separate 12v, 24v, 48v, 120VAC alternator (does such a thing even exist), generator head or something else I'm not even thinking of to my 2015 Silverado, 5.3 L engine and get out 2000 or even 3000 watts of power at idle, 800-900 RPM.
If it is possible what would be needed, everything I've looked at doesn't put out enough amps at the low of RPM.
|
|
|
12-25-2021, 09:30 AM
|
#2
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
|
From what I'm reading, an alternator puts out 12 VAC that is converted to 12 VDC. Car generators were replaced with alternators because alternators can more efficiently produce electricity.
Idling a car engine for extended periods is detrimental to the engine. Burning gas or diesel will add more pollution to the environment. The most efficient way to do what you want to do is by using a machine that was designed to do it; a generator.
Here's an article that tells you how to use your car's alternator to generate 120 VAC from the alternator via a transformer. They do not say what the output amps are.
https://sciencing.com/convert-12-vol...t-6146164.html
__________________
-Rich
Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE 4.7L V8
|
|
|
12-25-2021, 09:34 AM
|
#3
|
Rivet Master
2006 23' Safari SE
I'm In
, Kentucky
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,251
|
__________________
-Rich
Rich & Yvonne
2006 Safari SE -Dora-
2004 4Runner SE 4.7L V8
|
|
|
12-25-2021, 10:21 AM
|
#4
|
Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Evergreen
, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,592
|
The new Ford F-150 trucks with a built-in generator work this way. The top model features a 7.2 kW unit, which is very nice if you don’t mind running your truck engine to generate power. There are products available like CarGenerator that do the same thing. Personally, I’m fine with my Champion generator.
__________________
Dennis
Past:
Airstream International Serenity 23FB
Newmar Ventana 3715
|
|
|
12-25-2021, 10:39 AM
|
#5
|
Rivet Master
2017 26' Flying Cloud
Tampa
, Florida
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 7,656
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmklawt
Is it possible to add a second and totally separate 12v, 24v, 48v, 120VAC alternator (does such a thing even exist), generator head or something else I'm not even thinking of ...
|
Yes, but there's a cost. Let's assume some creative engineer has cut a bracket just for your needs. The alternator is spun by the belt. As power is consumed it gets harder and harder to turn the belt. So power is sacrificed from the engine unless you kick up the RPM. That takes more fuel.
Keep the generator.
YouTubers LoLoHo discovered when they switched from wet cells to lithium/solar, the standard alternator no longer charged the Lithiums while driving. So they upped their alternator. <stop>
|
|
|
12-25-2021, 10:43 AM
|
#6
|
Rivet Master
2021 30' Flying Cloud
2020 25' International
minneapolis
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,468
|
I have a 2021 F150 with 2k propower. I just installed a second 60amp converter up front that runs off the 15amp propower outlet to charge while boon docking on a cloudy day. I’m still going to keep my EU2200I for the random unknown’s or air conditioning.
__________________
- Stewart
|
|
|
12-26-2021, 11:00 AM
|
#7
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,744
|
Hi
Yes you can do it. To get anywhere near rated current out of the system, your engine will need to be up in the 1500 to 2000 RPM range. Alternator output drops *fast* as RPM's go down. As mentioned above, any sort of extended idle is a bad thing. Just why is slightly different for a diesel vs gas, but neither one likes the idea.
Way cheaper (that engine rebuild isn't going to be covered under warranty ....) , more fuel efficient, and easier to manage with a stand alone generator.
Bob
|
|
|
12-26-2021, 11:31 AM
|
#8
|
Rivet Master
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer)
, Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,692
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncle_bob
Hi
Yes you can do it. To get anywhere near rated current out of the system, your engine will need to be up in the 1500 to 2000 RPM range. Alternator output drops *fast* as RPM's go down. As mentioned above, any sort of extended idle is a bad thing. Just why is slightly different for a diesel vs gas, but neither one likes the idea.
Way cheaper (that engine rebuild isn't going to be covered under warranty ....) , more fuel efficient, and easier to manage with a stand alone generator.
Bob
|
Not to mention, your not idling your engine; noise and air pollution at a campsite... especially if it is an "older diesel"...
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road! 2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
|
|
|
12-28-2021, 02:45 AM
|
#9
|
Rivet Master
1966 24' Tradewind
1995 34' Excella
Lynchburg
, Virginia
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,226
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1000pre
I have a 2021 F150 with 2k propower. I just installed a second 60amp converter up front that runs off the 15amp propower outlet to charge while boon docking on a cloudy day. I’m still going to keep my EU2200I for the random unknown’s or air conditioning.
|
I am curious why you needed to add a second converter. Couldn’t you just use the original converter in your Airstream?
Dan
|
|
|
01-02-2022, 09:08 AM
|
#10
|
New Member
2018 23' International
Salt Lake City
, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 4
|
I have one
I have a 3000 w generator that hooks to my battery it works well. I wouldn’t use it for hours on end but would for a few hours here and there. I keep it as a relatively lightweight backup.
|
|
|
01-02-2022, 09:28 AM
|
#11
|
Rivet Master
2013 31' Classic
billings
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,577
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmklawt
Looks like this can not be done but I thought I'd ask before I abandon this idea and just stick with a portable generator.
Is it possible to add a second and totally separate 12v, 24v, 48v, 120VAC alternator (does such a thing even exist), generator head or something else I'm not even thinking of to my 2015 Silverado, 5.3 L engine and get out 2000 or even 3000 watts of power at idle, 800-900 RPM.
If it is possible what would be needed, everything I've looked at doesn't put out enough amps at the low of RPM.
|
Why run a 15,000$ engine when a 2200 is 1200$…?
|
|
|
01-02-2022, 10:10 AM
|
#12
|
2 Rivet Member
2020 27' Globetrotter
STAMFORD
, Connecticut
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 88
|
I have a 2019 Ford F250 Super Duty with dual heavy duty alternators. I ran a 2/0 battery cable (wrapped in a heat shield loom) from the truck engine bay (via a fused and switchable relay) along the frame to an Anderson 350 connector attached permanently to the tow hitch frame under the rear bumper.
On the trailer side, I ran a similar 2/0 "umbilical" (also shielded with loomed and self-amalgamating tape) with a mating Anderson 350 connector to a Victron Cyrix Li-Ct battery combiner/isolator. I also have a momentary switch on the Cyrix that would allow me start the truck from the trailer batteries if for some reason the truck batteries were out of commission.
With that setup, I get 50-60A charge current from the truck to the trailer batteries (400AH LiFePo4).
I only use this while driving and I never use this when idling. I think this whole business of using an idling tow vehicle to charge trailer batteries (except for an urgent need) is the wrong way to go.
|
|
|
01-02-2022, 12:08 PM
|
#13
|
1 Rivet Member
Cary
, NC
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 5
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmklawt
Looks like this can not be done but I thought I'd ask before I abandon this idea and just stick with a portable generator.
Is it possible to add a second and totally separate 12v, 24v, 48v, 120VAC alternator (does such a thing even exist), generator head or something else I'm not even thinking of to my 2015 Silverado, 5.3 L engine and get out 2000 or even 3000 watts of power at idle, 800-900 RPM.
If it is possible what would be needed, everything I've looked at doesn't put out enough amps at the low of RPM.
|
Yes it is possible, ambulances have them, Roadtrek RV's have them. California has banned portable/separate generators, even in RV's. DC just banned leaf blowers. More places will be banning these things and more.
|
|
|
01-02-2022, 02:43 PM
|
#14
|
4 Rivet Member
2013 20' Flying Cloud
2014 16' Sport
2019 23' Flying Cloud
Dunedin
, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 345
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmklawt
Looks like this can not be done but I thought I'd ask before I abandon this idea and just stick with a portable generator.
Is it possible to add a second and totally separate 12v, 24v, 48v, 120VAC alternator (does such a thing even exist), generator head or something else I'm not even thinking of to my 2015 Silverado, 5.3 L engine and get out 2000 or even 3000 watts of power at idle, 800-900 RPM.
If it is possible what would be needed, everything I've looked at doesn't put out enough amps at the low of RPM.
|
I have the CarGenerator. And it fills the needs of a generator. I can run it for a few hours to run the things I need. Check out the website about them.
|
|
|
01-02-2022, 04:13 PM
|
#15
|
Rivet Master
2021 30' Flying Cloud
Airstream - Other
Airstream - Other
Lady Lake
, Florida
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,188
|
No
Bad just plain bad. Just shrug this off a as well meaning but a very bad idea. Horrible to idle a gas or especially a diesel.
|
|
|
01-03-2022, 01:52 AM
|
#16
|
1 Rivet Member
Commercial Member
2010 30' Flying Cloud
Toronto
, Ontario
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 8
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmklawt
...to my 2015 Silverado, 5.3 L engine and get out 2000 or even 3000 watts of power at idle, 800-900 RPM.
If it is possible what would be needed, everything I've looked at doesn't put out enough amps at the low of RPM.
|
Yes what you are wanting to do is very easily possible. Doing this is exactly my job over the last seven years now, so I am sharing direct experience of thousands of people similar to your request.
The Idle output Calculation:
Idle output is half of "rated output", so you can check what your existing alternator amp output is, then reduce by half, then multiply by 12v = watts available. The concept is simple, you shut off your vehicle accessories and instead pull that power out to do a different job. For the most part your engine and alternator doesn't know or care, it just simply produces power as needed.
Alternator upgrade:
Google for your vehicle year model etc and the words alternator upgrade or high output alternator, you will find numerous manufacturers to choose from. For example PowerBastards lists a direct bolt in replacement for your truck, listing a 160 amp at IDLE output. Multiply that by 12-13 volts equals 2000 watts. Make sure to order "the big three" wire harness to handle the upgraded power properly.
Is Idling bad?
Idling is a fact of life and everyone does it. Stuck in traffic, or waiting an hour to pickup the kids from soccer on a crazy hot day is simply a job our vehicles are already engineered to do. Use an OBD vehicle scanner and observe for yourself how many "idle hours" are already on your engine.
If you think about it - an engine doesnt really know of care if its standing stationary or going down the road at 60 miles an hour.
Ford's ProPower fully supports idling your gas engine for 85 HOURS on a tank, producing 2000 watts of power.
GM offers a truck bed 400 watt power outlet which the GM instructions state can "be used for things like a Slowcooker or Crockpot", as stated by the manufacturer! How many hours would you idle your engine to run your slow cooker or crock pot?
Honda Ridgeline has a 400 watt truck bed outlet "for tailgating and watching TV", which requires the engine idling. So how long would you idle watching TV?
WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS ANYWAY?
Using your vehicle as a generator is an INTENTIONAL choice for many people. They simply do not want to own, maintain, or wrangle a heavy gas generator. Many people drag around a big heavy gas generator for months and only end up using it a few hours, occasionally. So using your vehicle engine instead is far more convenient and less hassle. That said, if you camp off grid for days in blazing temperatures and need a generator 24/7 around the clock, then a traditional gas generator may be your only choice.
Feel free to ask any questions, happy to share knowledge on any of this. Thanks.
|
|
|
01-03-2022, 03:59 AM
|
#17
|
1 Rivet Member
2007 20' Safari SE
edmond
, Oklahoma
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarGenGuy
Yes what you are wanting to do is very easily possible. Doing this is exactly my job over the last seven years now, so I am sharing direct experience of thousands of people similar to your request.
The Idle output Calculation:
Idle output is half of "rated output", so you can check what your existing alternator amp output is, then reduce by half, then multiply by 12v = watts available. The concept is simple, you shut off your vehicle accessories and instead pull that power out to do a different job. For the most part your engine and alternator doesn't know or care, it just simply produces power as needed.
Alternator upgrade:
Google for your vehicle year model etc and the words alternator upgrade or high output alternator, you will find numerous manufacturers to choose from. For example PowerBastards lists a direct bolt in replacement for your truck, listing a 160 amp at IDLE output. Multiply that by 12-13 volts equals 2000 watts. Make sure to order "the big three" wire harness to handle the upgraded power properly.
Is Idling bad?
Idling is a fact of life and everyone does it. Stuck in traffic, or waiting an hour to pickup the kids from soccer on a crazy hot day is simply a job our vehicles are already engineered to do. Use an OBD vehicle scanner and observe for yourself how many "idle hours" are already on your engine.
If you think about it - an engine doesnt really know of care if its standing stationary or going down the road at 60 miles an hour.
Ford's ProPower fully supports idling your gas engine for 85 HOURS on a tank, producing 2000 watts of power.
GM offers a truck bed 400 watt power outlet which the GM instructions state can "be used for things like a Slowcooker or Crockpot", as stated by the manufacturer! How many hours would you idle your engine to run your slow cooker or crock pot?
Honda Ridgeline has a 400 watt truck bed outlet "for tailgating and watching TV", which requires the engine idling. So how long would you idle watching TV?
WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS ANYWAY?
Using your vehicle as a generator is an INTENTIONAL choice for many people. They simply do not want to own, maintain, or wrangle a heavy gas generator. Many people drag around a big heavy gas generator for months and only end up using it a few hours, occasionally. So using your vehicle engine instead is far more convenient and less hassle. That said, if you camp off grid for days in blazing temperatures and need a generator 24/7 around the clock, then a traditional gas generator may be your only choice.
Feel free to ask any questions, happy to share knowledge on any of this. Thanks.
|
Well stated cargenguy. Idling wont harm an engine. Sure, its gonna last longer if you dont, but the small amount of time you are gonna do it will make little difference. I use my truck in my work and not just hauling a sack of dog food from walmart evry month and have to sit and idle my truck for hours on end as do all my fellow workers to run the ac in summer or heater in winter. Never noticed any bad affects.
|
|
|
01-03-2022, 05:31 AM
|
#18
|
Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,581
|
Interesting side note here about the idling thing...
In semi trucks drivers used to idle their engines all night to keep their sleepers warm or cooled (depending on weather). Then someone came up with something called an APU (auxiliary power unit) which was essentially a small diesel generator and an a/c compressor which would run all night and save the engine from having to idle. Helped save wear and tear on engines, as well as comply with clean idle laws in many states.
The latest trend is to use battery bank APUs instead of diesel. They stick a few deep cycle batteries between the frame rails to run the a/c or heater as well as the inverter for the microwave and fridge. When the batteries get depleted, the main truck engine automatically restarts and recharges them from the alternator. Shuts down again when they're topped off enough. My Freightliner was able to make it 3-4 hours before restarting in the heat of summer.
Some trucking companies have opted to stick with diesel APUs, and others have gone to the battery based units. All depends on which works best for them given the places they travel, the weather, economics, etc.
My point - there are many ways to meet the goals here and there's not just one right answer. Whether or not idling the engine is the best option depends on all the other factors in the equation.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
|
|
|
01-03-2022, 07:03 AM
|
#19
|
Rivet Master
2021 30' Flying Cloud
2020 25' International
minneapolis
, Minnesota
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,468
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by TouringDan
I am curious why you needed to add a second converter. Couldn’t you just use the original converter in your Airstream?
Dan
|
I didn’t want to run wires all the way back to my oem converter. I found it easier to install an additional converter.
__________________
- Stewart
|
|
|
01-03-2022, 09:12 AM
|
#20
|
Rivet Master
2017 28' Flying Cloud
2014 25' FB Flying Cloud
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Georgetown (winter)Thayne (summer)
, Texas & Wyoming
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,692
|
Bad idea!
Not sure where this is coming from? Campgrounds are already adapting rules in many locations prohibiting generator's typically due to noise. Some even have decibel limits, due to the industrial inexpensive models some folks bring along. So noise pollution is the biggest concern, and I get that. It's also why many of us have solar and carry our Honda/Yamaha/Champion, etc. generators for backup or to run AC when boondocking.
Now, your advocating idling your vehicle instead?? Come on folks! The pollution caused by idling is harmful to people and the environment.
In several states, there are laws on the books about idling unless emergency situation's.
Imagine a campground with your family and diesels and/or gas engines running for a half hour or more...does that sound healthy and inviting to you? Why; because a Honda or Yamaha generator is too heavy for you to lift?
__________________
Empty Nesters; Gypsies on the road! 2017 28' Twin Flying Cloud
2017 F250 King Ranch, 4X4, 6.7L, Blue-Ox WDH
Summer-Star Valley Ranch RV Resort (Thayne, WY); Winter-Sun City (Georgetown,TX)
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
Similar Threads
|
Thread |
Thread Starter |
Forum |
Replies |
Last Post |
Idling
|
Mr. B |
Sprinter and B-van Forum |
50 |
05-07-2016 03:14 PM |
Powerstroke idling
|
jfowler218 |
Tow Vehicles |
17 |
01-05-2006 12:13 AM |
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|