Water Heater & Fans No Electric

[bmidlam]

The other night we were dry camping and the furnace kicked on as it was pretty cold. We subsequently ran out of propane and obviously everything stopped working. Since then the water heater light won’t turn on(for propane or electric even when on full hookup) and the 2 fantastic fans aren’t working. No electric seems to be going to either. I checked the breaker which I reset even though it wasn’t tripped and I checked the fuse which was working as other working items are on that fuse. I swapped it out just in case but no change. I don’t see any resets on the hot water heater either in the outside panel or on the unit itself (which is under our bunk bed in the 30 FBB) but given no electric is running to it I don’t imagine that is the issue. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[GCinSC2]

Are any 12V circuits working Battery state of charge? Voltage etc.

[bmidlam]

I don’t have enough knowledge to answer much of this. Everything else is working in the rig. Battery is reading 12.6 right now fully plugged into 50amp service. Before we were plugged it was having trouble staying at or above 12

[GCinSC2]

Dry camping you were not charging the batteries unless you were on a generator. So comparing the issues dry vs on shore power is not a good reference baseline.

You were less than 12V dry?

Consider disconnecting from shore power and see where you are.

How old are the batteries?

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Ok so "intro to AS electricity":

You have a battery in the trailer. It supplies 12V all the time to a variety of devices. Fans, lights, the control board in the fridge, the thermostat on the furnace all get 12V battery power.

The battery runs through a relay that is controlled by the "use/store" switch by the trailer door. Flip it to "store" and pretty much all the 12V stuff stops working. Flip it to "use" and that stuff all starts up again. If the use/store relay module dies, you don't have 12V to anything.

The battery is charged off of the converter charger. When running, the converter/ charger takes shore power (or maybe a generator) and converts it to charge voltage. It should get th battery up to above 13V when it is running. The battery should never be allowed to get below 12V. If it does, you need to get it charged !!!

Fully charging the batteries is normally done by hooking up to shore power for 24 hours with no major loads running on the trailer. It should get above 13V in well under 8 hours. It needs to stay there for > 8 hours to be sure the battery is "full".

Not mentioned is the inverter. It turns 12V into 120V. It gobbles battery power like crazy. Don't use it unless you have to.

You may or may not have a full disconnect switch on the battery. If you do, it totally takes the battery out of the picture. In normal use, it is always in the "on" position.

Batteries lead a tough life in an AS. Folks don't realize that the furnace can flatten them overnight. Running a battery dead flat is not at all good for it. Even with a lot of care, 4 or 5 years is a pretty good life for a lead acid battery. Yours could be past its "use by date".

If you have a multimeter, there are a bunch of checks you can do. The converter charger may be broke. Without a multimeter , punching the use/store switch and listening for a click is about it ....

Bob

[GCinSC2]

Dry camping and you ran out of power?

Did you just deplete the batteries and now they need a day+ to recharge?

[bmidlam]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Dry camping you were not charging the batteries unless you were on a generator. So comparing the issues dry vs on shore power is not a good reference baseline.

You were less than 12V dry?

Consider disconnecting from shore power and see where you are.

How old are the batteries?

Yes we were hovering between 11.6-12 while dry camping. I kept hooking up the truck and running it for a bit to combat this but it was a losing battle. We were shaded so the solar didn’t help. The batteries are 4 years older roughly. I disconnected from shore and it said 12.6 but we have been here on shore now for 6+ hours. It’s 13 when connected back up. If it’s the batteries why would only the fans and heater not work?

[bmidlam]

It’s possible. Everything else works so that the only reason I’m a bit stumped. I keep trying the fans to ensure they still do t work. Hoping after being hooked up they will start working otherwise I will need someone with a higher electrical skill level than me. Ironically the tongue jack also died while hitching today. I figured out it was the 30amp fuse and was able to find one but perhaps these are all a result of depleted batteries (4 days dry camping. First two in sun with solar, second two without and only an hour of towing in between to refresh the charge from the truck)

[bmidlam]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Ok so "intro to AS electricity":

You have a battery in the trailer. It supplies 12V all the time to a variety of devices. Fans, lights, the control board in the fridge, the thermostat on the furnace all get 12V battery power.

The battery runs through a relay that is controlled by the "use/store" switch by the trailer door. Flip it to "store" and pretty much all the 12V stuff stops working. Flip it to "use" and that stuff all starts up again. If the use/store relay module dies, you don't have 12V to anything.

The battery is charged off of the converter charger. When running, the converter/ charger takes shore power (or maybe a generator) and converts it to charge voltage. It should get th battery up to above 13V when it is running. The battery should never be allowed to get below 12V. If it does, you need to get it charged !!!

Fully charging the batteries is normally done by hooking up to shore power for 24 hours with no major loads running on the trailer. It should get above 13V in well under 8 hours. It needs to stay there for > 8 hours to be sure the battery is "full".

Not mentioned is the inverter. It turns 12V into 120V. It gobbles battery power like crazy. Don't use it unless you have to.

You may or may not have a full disconnect switch on the battery. If you do, it totally takes the battery out of the picture. In normal use, it is always in the "on" position.

Batteries lead a tough life in an AS. Folks don't realize that the furnace can flatten them overnight. Running a battery dead flat is not at all good for it. Even with a lot of care, 4 or 5 years is a pretty good life for a lead acid battery. Yours could be past its "use by date".

If you have a multimeter, there are a bunch of checks you can do. The converter charger may be broke. Without a multimeter , punching the use/store switch and listening for a click is about it ....

Bob

Thank you for this, it’s really quite helpful. I’m generally handy but not with plumbing or electrical so this was very informative. I tried the use/store and it does click. I’m out of options for my LD el of skill

[Wazbro]

Try unplugging the trailer and putting it into store mode to disconnect power for a minute, then turn back to use and plug in. This may reset things after the low voltage.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Yes this is a *really* picky point, but there is a reason ....

The term "unplug" can mean a lot of things. The most basic is "yank the plug out of the socket". It can also mean "power down". There *is* a very big difference in the two meanings when talking about a 50A service.

Since the 50A service is actually 240V, it depends on a "neutral" wire on the plug to properly split things into the two 120V circuits we know and love. No neutral and you get insane voltages on this or that. Blowing out a converter or even an A/C unit is possible.

When you plug and unplug a "live" 50A cord there is no guarantee what mates up first and what connects last. Since it creates problems, odds are the neutral will mate up last. When it does, you either depend on your "in trailer" EMS to protect you or there is a potential for damage. Since there are multiple ways to "loose" a neutral, an internal EMS is a pretty good idea....

So: don't ever power up / power down the trailer by yanking the cord. Use the breaker on the power pole to shut things off before you plug in and before you unplug.

Bob

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

Yes this is a *really* picky point, but there is a reason ....

The term "unplug" can mean a lot of things. The most basic is "yank the plug out of the socket". It can also mean "power down". There *is* a very big difference in the two meanings when talking about a 50A service.

Since the 50A service is actually 240V, it depends on a "neutral" wire on the plug to properly split things into the two 120V circuits we know and love. No neutral and you get insane voltages on this or that. Blowing out a converter or even an A/C unit is possible.

When you plug and unplug a "live" 50A cord there is no guarantee what mates up first and what connects last. Since it creates problems, odds are the neutral will mate up last. When it does, you either depend on your "in trailer" EMS to protect you or there is a potential for damage. Since there are multiple ways to "loose" a neutral, an internal EMS is a pretty good idea....

So: don't ever power up / power down the trailer by yanking the cord. Use the breaker on the power pole to shut things off before you plug in and before you unplug.

Bob

You're right, I should have been more clear about meaning remove all power AC and DC to try to reset things.