Dexter vs Henschen

[bake315]

Well if Henschen didn't recommend it I can't imagine either Henschen or Airstream exposing themselves to such a liability. You don't hear anything about high failure rates with triple axle trailers equipped with Henschen axles... or any other axle for that matter.

I wonder what the big 5er SOB's with triple axles are running? All leaf spring? When Dexter's Torflex is available in capacities of up to 10,000 pounds?

Something doesn't jibe here, I'm thinking.... I can't imagine a difference of, at most, 500-700# of curb weight between double and triple axle trailers going over a railroad track or a speed bump being such a big deal.


Ah well.... whatreyagonnado......

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Alignment specs are:

multiple axles must be parallel to each other within 1/8"
axles must be perpendicular to the centerline within 1/4" total (1/8" per side)

I was thinking of the other kind of "allignment"..."toe in/tow out/camber/caster". they bend the axle tube for this. but they do it "just so".... I think they show this process in the axle plant tour on Andy's site.

And this may be the big selling point for the Henshen: they're a "bolt-on" item. (in most cases, anyway). And speaking of that, why hasn't Andy come in to this thread to show us the error of our ways, for even thinking about a "brand x" axle? LOL! (before you get bent out of shape...I'm just teasing!). Seriously, though, that is certainly worth something. but is it worth twice the price of a dexter? again, I say, "hmmm...."

I would think that the parallel/perpendicular thing should be "fixed" by the axle mounting plate. there's a square cut out that is the same size as the axle tube...that's where it goes.

[markdoane]

Chuck,

I think the other alignment specs are either set by the manufacturer, or don't really matter in a non-driven/non-steer axle. The only things you can screw up when installing a new axle are the parallel/perpendicular measurements.

As for the 'bolt-on' feature of the Henschen axle, and the "fixed" axle cut-out, I think that's a poor approach. My frame was 1/2" out of line, I wouldn't assume that another frame is perfectly aligned and you can just bolt-on a replacement?

I would rather start from scratch, and make sure that the new axle, regardless of who made it, is installed properly, perpendicular and parallel.

Here's where I got the alignment info: http://www.goodyear.com/truck/pdf/ra...tread_S6_V.pdf
(skip to the bottom, page 7, for trailer settings)

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Chuck,

I think the other alignment specs are either set by the manufacturer, or don't really matter in a non-driven/non-steer axle. The only things you can screw up when installing a new axle are the parallel/perpendicular measurements.

As for the 'bolt-on' feature of the Henschen axle, and the "fixed" axle cut-out, I think that's a poor approach. My frame was 1/2" out of line, I wouldn't assume that another frame is perfectly aligned and you can just bolt-on a replacement?

I would rather start from scratch, and make sure that the new axle, regardless of who made it, is installed properly, perpendicular and parallel.

Here's where I got the alignment info: http://www.goodyear.com/truck/pdf/ra...tread_S6_V.pdf
(skip to the bottom, page 7, for trailer settings)

but yours is a pre-duratorque setup, is it not?

Its in the airstream service manual...which I don't have handy at the moment. I'll look it up when I get home.

Airstream thought it was important to put a bend in these axle tubes....and I remember seeing at least one newbie post "yikes! the axles on my new-old trailer are bent "...and I thought the same thing when I first noticed it, myself. But the axle tube is much closer to the belly pan in the middle of the trailer than it is on the outside, near the mounting plates, forming an arc.

I'm not an engineer...nor do I play one on tv...so I can't comment on the quality of the approach that the A/S engineers of old took IRT the axle mounting plate, etc. but it is the way it is. It would seem to me that if the frame were that "racked" out of square, it would take a whole lot of metal work to fix it. (how/what do you measure to determine this, anyway? )

[markdoane]

Chuck,

You're right, my frame is a 'pre-Duratorque', but it was still racked by half an inch. I don't know if they do a better job of alignment now than they did back then, I sure hope so. (although from reading some of the Quality threads, I'm not sure.)

The Dexter axle I put on had the regular bend in the middle to set the camber. I don't know if the Torq-flex axles have the same camber, but I assume they do, just like the Henschen axles.

As far as how you check if the trailer is 'racked', it's pretty easy with a tape measure. You just measure from the center of the coupler to the end of the axle. If both sides are equal, you're good to go, right? If they're not the same, you need to move one side to make it so. In my situation, we were putting on a new coupler, so I just pulled one side of the tongue in a little bit to make both sides equal.

I have no idea if this is a problem with current models. I am certain that if I were replacing the axle (Henschen, Dexter, or otherwise), I would check to make sure the frame is square. It only takes a minute to measure.

I would be especially concerned if the trailer had ever had a shell-off floor replacement. Very easy to get a racked frame while putting on a new floor.

[Chuck]

Ok...starting to make sense to me now. I dug out my '73 service manual, and read the procedure for alligning the axles. Its hard to follow, though, as the illustrations in this section are photographs, and since it crappy repro manual, the pics are basically illegible. But anyway, they've got special guages for measuring the camber/caster and toe of the wheels. and another special axle bending tool that is used w/ a hydraulic floor jack to bend the axle at certain points if the measurements are off. it even comments in one section that you may have to cut into the belly pan to bend it far enough.

now, I'm wondering if this extra allignement is only necessary if uneven tire wear is noted. (a discussion of the types and causes of different wear patterns preceeds the allignment procedure in the manual).

my 9-year old tires don't show any wear at all, fwiw. they still have those "new tire hairs" sticking out around the tread. (we don't get out much, I guess ).

interesting thing I noticed: they refer to the axles as "duo-torque axles". and its not just a single typo. they're referenced the same way several times.

[Over59]

Originally Posted by markdoane

I would be especially concerned if the trailer had ever had a shell-off floor replacement. Very easy to get a racked frame while putting on a new floor.

Great, I needed something else to worry about. I think there is a Groucho Marx joke in there somewhere but I do have my standards.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by chuck

But anyway, they've got special guages for measuring the camber/caster and toe of the wheels.

I think you're 100% correct. If you don't have unusual tire wear, everything is butiful.

As far as those measurements go, camber is set by the axle manufacturer, toe in should be 0, +/- 1/32", and I have no idea what on earth caster is, or how you would measure it, on a duo-torque (sp) axle. It's a number that just doesn't make sense to me for a swing arm axle.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by markdoane

I think you're 100% correct. If you don't have unusual tire wear, everything is butiful.

As far as those measurements go, camber is set by the axle manufacturer, toe in should be 0, +/- 1/32", and I have no idea what on earth caster is, or how you would measure it, on a duo-torque (sp) axle. It's a number that just doesn't make sense to me for a swing arm axle.

yeah, forget I said "caster". thinking of another kind of wheel. doh!

fwiw: the manual says "toe in" should be 1/16", tolerance 1/16 plus or minus.
camber should be 3/4 degree Pos, tolerance 3/4 degree plus or minus.

[markdoane]

Chuck,

Does it say how you get the toe-in set to 1/16"? Seems to me you would need to bend the spindles, or bend the axle tube.
Either way, the setting would be pretty small (<1/10 degree) compared to the camber setting (3/4 degree).

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by markdoane

Chuck,

Does it say how you get the toe-in set to 1/16"? Seems to me you would need to bend the spindles, or bend the axle tube.
.

yeah, I believe that's what it says..."bend the axle tube", with that special axle bending device. of course, I'm at work now, without my service manual, so I can't triple-check but anyway, this device can bend an axle on either the vertical, or horizontal plane. there are some useless photographs on the page...but a legible line drawing that shows where to place it along the axle tube for each operation.

so I guess we can conclude that "allignment" isn't an issue. but what about the other issues that have been mentioned? what other "fabrication" is required in order to use a dexter axle? is it just a matter of drilling new holes for the mounting brackets? or something else????

[fireflyinva]

Anyone here know about my question--can you go from duratorque (like) to leaf axles?

Mary

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by chuck

. . so I guess we can conclude that "allignment" isn't an issue. but what about the other issues that have been mentioned? what other "fabrication" is required in order to use a dexter axle? is it just a matter of drilling new holes for the mounting brackets? or something else????

Chuck,

Sure there are fabrication and design issues involved. I think that's pretty clear from other people that have done this; it's not a job for a first time do-it-yourselfer.

On the other hand, a lot of people here have the experience and ability to do a job like this. It takes some thought, pencil and paper, design work, and then some metal fabrication skills.

Can you justify the cost savings? If you have the skills to do the design work and know how to weld, yes! If you need to outsource the design and fabrication, probably not.

I do think there is some false information in previous posts that says Dexter axles are poor quality or will pound your trailer to death. I guess I would be willing to go with a manufacturer that has probably built 100X the number of axles that Henschen has built.


Fireflyinva,

Of course you could replace a duratorque axle with leaf springs, but I don't think anyone would recommend it.

Everyone I have seen that replaced leaf springs with a Duratorque has been pleased with the results.

Maybe you could do it if you planned to park the trailer in one spot, or only move it a few miles per year. Then you might be able to buy 'stock' leaf springs and an axle at a trailerstore for a couple $100. Of course, you would be seriously compromising the roadworthiness. So you could sell it on eBay.

If you wanted to replicate what Airstream used in the late 50's, you would need to go to a full service frame and spring shop. If you are serious about this I can send you the specs on the leaf springs on my '59 Tradewind. I think it would end up costing just as much to put on new "OEM" leaf springs as to replace with a Duratorque.

[fireflyinva]

Thanks again, Don...

I shake my head when I think that I would ever even give consideration to doing this kind of work. I must be nuts. My family can't believe it...I am the girlie sister, not the tomboy! Oh, well, I still like barbie dolls!

So, I'm signing up for a welding class (really). Even if I don't use the skill, it will help me understand what can be done.

Mary

BTW What's a cleco?

[markdoane]

Mary,

Good for you! The thing you can't put a price tag on is the sense of accomplishment you get from having done something new.

A cleco is a temporary rivet. You use dozens of them to hold a sheet of aluminum in place while you check the fit. Then you put in permanent rivets.

[Theo]

Originally Posted by fireflyinva

Thanks again, Don...

I shake my head when I think that I would ever even give consideration to doing this kind of work. I must be nuts. My family can't believe it...I am the girlie sister, not the tomboy! Oh, well, I still like barbie dolls!

So, I'm signing up for a welding class (really). Even if I don't use the skill, it will help me understand what can be done.

Mary

BTW What's a cleco?

For ever, I have wanted to learn to weld.. I have looked for classes in many places, and never found one, that it on, when I am around.. I would LOVE to be able to weld... In storage, I have both a MIG welder, and a Gas Set, waiting for the knowledge to use them.. I will look at my next place, for welding classes, or some guy with time.. I looked here, and could not find anywhere.... *sulk*

Adding leaf springs to my airstream would be an interesting modification - I could REALLY do with getting the Long long tube off the ground some.. The axles under it, are in very good condition, but it is, by design, a low slung trailer.. This stops me from getting to some of the more adventurous places I love to boondock in..

[fireflyinva]

I'm taking the classes through a local arts center. They teach how to do heavy metalwork to make sculptures. Oddly, it's cheaper than taking the classes through the community college here.

Check your local community college. Most of them have trade programs teaching this. You just have to use all of that stored equipment!

Oh, and the girlie side of me really digs wearing the mask that just flips up and down with a shake of the head!

Mary

[Theo]

Thank you, I will look into that.

[markdoane]

Originally Posted by Theo

Adding leaf springs to my airstream would be an interesting modification - I could REALLY do with getting the Long long tube off the ground some.. The axles under it, are in very good condition, but it is, by design, a low slung trailer.. This stops me from getting to some of the more adventurous places I love to boondock in..

Wow! I'd be afraid to get off the Interstate if I was pulling a 34'er.

Did you see the 'off-road' that Andy did a few weeks ago?