Boondocking emergency question

[Lily&Me]

And, if all else fails, carry paper and something to write with so if someone finds you unconscious---or your lifeless body---they know who you are and what has happened.

My great-grandfather, a chaplain during the Civil War, saved the life of an officer who had been left for dead on the battlefield at Chickamauga. Passing in and out of consciousness, Captain Sloan wrote a note "I am alive" and stuck it on the fence post he was leaning against. Saved his life.


Maggie

[thecatsandi]

Originally Posted by DanielB

Asprin.

Some people (me) are allergic to asprin.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by thecatsandi

Some people (me) are allergic to asprin.

Or, like me, on blood thinners. No aspirin, ever.

Bottom line, seems to me, is to do the best you can to be prepared for whatever may come, but if you are way out in the wilderness you need to understand an emergency can take you down.

Have your affairs in order and be ready for whatever awaits you.


Maggie

[Gene]

Marry a doctor, bring a sat phone and make sure a helicopter can land nearby.

We live 45 minutes from a hospital and most of the doctors in the county, so it is almost like being in the wilderness when living in rural America.

I have been unable to convince my wife she should go to medical school and study geriatrics.

I would think the greatest dangers are breaks, sprains, lacerations and cardiovascular events. An Ace bandage and a splint help with first two; bandages, tape and using direct pressure on a wound solve most of the 3rd, and for the non-allergic, aspirin may help for the fourth if a heart attack. For a a stroke, I don't believe aspirin is a good thing, but correct me if I am wrong. Also, when the emergency people arrive, a clear head to explain what happened helps a lot. A book on what to do in a medical emergency is also helpful.

Gene

[reinergirl]

I also think that Celox is a good addition to the typical first aid kit especially if you do alot of hiking in remote areas. Throwing it in the glove compartment of your car might be a good idea too. Workshop too!

It's is a blood coagulant that can stop you from bleeding (even a severed artery). And works even if you are using blood thinners. Cheap insurance IMO. Works on animals too. See more info here Celox Hemostatic Agent Stops Traumatic Bleeding, in stock ships immediately

Celox is widely available (even at Amazon).

[Lily&Me]

I read somewhere that a roll of duct tape is a good addition to an emergency kit, can think right offhand of lots of uses:

splints for broken bones
applying pressure bandages (no, not around a limb so as to cut off circulation, unless what you need is a tourniquet)
making a sling for a broken/sprained arm
making a crutch

???


Maggie

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by doug&maggie

I read somewhere that a roll of duct tape is a good addition to an emergency kit, can think right offhand of lots of uses:

splints for broken bones
applying pressure bandages (no, not around a limb so as to cut off circulation, unless what you need is a tourniquet)
making a sling for a broken/sprained arm
making a crutch

???


Maggie

"Duct tape...the handyman's best friend" per Red Green!

I always carry some. Like I've said before, most of my wilderness outings are remote canoeing. GOOD duct tape will do a great job in patching holes and cracks in a damaged canoe hull. (among many other things).

PS: another Red Green truism...."If the women don't find you handsome, they at least should find you handy."

[Lumatic]

The spot personal tracker has some pros and cons.
Pro:
1. works anywhere you can get a satellite signal
2. you can choose between an OK or need help message by email to 10 people or/
3. 911
4. sends out your exact GPS coords
Con:
1. Takes up to 20 minutes to find a good signal
2. Only sends does not receive (basic unit)
3. For 911 you won't get as quick a response as phone
4. You can be charged for a search and rescue team depending on location

I have one it's cheap insurance and an easy way to let friends and family know where you are. For a real emergency it may take hours to get you help so unless you are really stuck it may be better to go for help.

[Lily&Me]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

PS: another Red Green truism...."If the women don't find you handsome, they at least should find you handy."

Cute! Women do love a handy man.


Maggie

[Bonzm]

Depend on yourself. I'm going to be a bit forward but realistic when it comes to going out to the backcountry to do anything.

People in town think that having a cell phone is their answer to an emergency. Dial 911 and all the help will come running. Please be aware that technology is nice, but can be unreliable. A cell phone's call to 911 will show a location.... maybe. That location may be correct within feet/meters/miles and depends on the technology that exists between the caller and the receiving public safety answering point. If you cannot provide an accurate location of your emergency, where do the responders go?

Now you move into the back country of any state and your cell phone does not have reception. Let's talk Sat (satellite) phones. Yes expensive to have and to use. What number will you call in an emergency. Sat phones do not use 911 well because they run on satellites and are not able to be directed to a local (to where you are currently at) answering point. So you're in Backcountry Colorado and your call is answered in Washington DC. Now what. If not 911, what number are you going to call? You will still need to have your location, and unlike being in a town, you will not be able to give a location like the corner of Pine Av and Oak Street. Just giving the location will take time... on a sat phone where you hear chi-ching playing in the background. Also, sat phones need clear skies for good reception. Tree cover may block your signal.

Beacons (PLBs) have become the “yuppie 911.” Rescuers who risk their lives are not amused. Two way communications do not exist with these devices. Yes, another cost of money for purchase and activation. And some people have no idea when to use them.

For instance, nothing tops the party hiking in the Grand Canyon who activated their beacon three (3) separate times in three days for such emergencies as “drinking water tasted funny,” “running low on water,” “heard a scary sound.” They were physically removed from the Canyon after the third abuse. Unnecessarily mobilizing helicopters for dangerous, lifesaving rescues should disqualify you from the planet.

If you venture into the outdoors and off the grid, be prepared - always. Rely on yourself first. Know first aid, bring appropriate items for surviving in the area that you are headed, don't freak out, and have a plan.

Listen to Gringo and Jammer -- mobility is more valuable than communications. Drive to the hospital as it will result in faster access to medical care than a phone call will.
Don't listen to dznf0g (Life or death???? Fines or not, if I'm having a heart attack, up goes the flare!) due to the fact the responders will spot the fire he started and not him, until the birds come out.


____________

Bonzm

[Gene]

Another approach to all this is not to be so scared of everything that you never go outside of a 2 mile radius of a university hospital. It's smart to be prepared and to have some first aid knowledge, but being fearful means a narrow life.

Some people who have always lived in cities and suburbs may have no idea what to do when outside their familiar surroundings, and they should probably stay home until they learn how to be somewhere else.

It is good to expand your life and try new experiences and be smart about it. I grew up in a city and my parents would never consider hiking, tenting or anything like that. I had to learn it myself and made my share of dumb mistakes—being observant, go out with experienced people, reading up on things, all help. There is no absolutely safe place, but living in the back of a closet isn't a lot of fun either. I'm old and body parts don't work as well as they used to, but I want to maximize every adventure I can still have (but I do bring extra meds).

Gene

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Bonzm

Depend on yourself. I'm going to be a bit forward but realistic when it comes to going out to the backcountry to do anything.

People in town think that having a cell phone is their answer to an emergency. Dial 911 and all the help will come running. Please be aware that technology is nice, but can be unreliable. A cell phone's call to 911 will show a location.... maybe. That location may be correct within feet/meters/miles and depends on the technology that exists between the caller and the receiving public safety answering point. If you cannot provide an accurate location of your emergency, where do the responders go?

Now you move into the back country of any state and your cell phone does not have reception. Let's talk Sat (satellite) phones. Yes expensive to have and to use. What number will you call in an emergency. Sat phones do not use 911 well because they run on satellites and are not able to be directed to a local (to where you are currently at) answering point. So you're in Backcountry Colorado and your call is answered in Washington DC. Now what. If not 911, what number are you going to call? You will still need to have your location, and unlike being in a town, you will not be able to give a location like the corner of Pine Av and Oak Street. Just giving the location will take time... on a sat phone where you hear chi-ching playing in the background. Also, sat phones need clear skies for good reception. Tree cover may block your signal.

Beacons (PLBs) have become the “yuppie 911.” Rescuers who risk their lives are not amused. Two way communications do not exist with these devices. Yes, another cost of money for purchase and activation. And some people have no idea when to use them.

For instance, nothing tops the party hiking in the Grand Canyon who activated their beacon three (3) separate times in three days for such emergencies as “drinking water tasted funny,” “running low on water,” “heard a scary sound.” They were physically removed from the Canyon after the third abuse. Unnecessarily mobilizing helicopters for dangerous, lifesaving rescues should disqualify you from the planet.

If you venture into the outdoors and off the grid, be prepared - always. Rely on yourself first. Know first aid, bring appropriate items for surviving in the area that you are headed, don't freak out, and have a plan.

Listen to Gringo and Jammer -- mobility is more valuable than communications. Drive to the hospital as it will result in faster access to medical care than a phone call will.
Don't listen to dznf0g (Life or death???? Fines or not, if I'm having a heart attack, up goes the flare!) due to the fact the responders will spot the fire he started and not him, until the birds come out.


____________

Bonzm

Wellllllll, that, just silly...but you're entitled.

FYI, I actually talked to the Ranger at BWCAW about the flare as a last resort. He was fine with it.

[mojo]

Flares and forests are a bad mix

November 04, 2003
The chief suspect in the Cedar fire in San Diego County is a lost hunter who allegedly launched a signal flare in hopes of being rescued. Firing a flare when lost in the woods is a bad move, experts say.
More than 276,000 acres burned, 14 people died and more than 2,200 homes were destroyed in the Cedar fire.
Steve Edinger, the California Department of Fish and Game's acting assistant chief for enforcement from Santa Barbara to San Diego, said, "Obviously, a signal flare is created for water. It's not something built for a forest, especially a dry one."

[dznf0g]

I suppose every situation and location is different. My wilderness travel has been exclusively in the "Land of 10,000 lakes". Yes there have been bad lightning fires, and fire bans at times, but a flare can easily be fired over a lake. These canoe trips cover very little land and your campsites are all within 100 feet of a pretty sizable body of water. I won't try and speak for you westerners.

The Ranger "up nort" said the regulation prohibiting fireworks or any type of explosive always applies. If you have a sprained ankle and fire a flare, you're probably going to be fined and be responsible for rescue expenses. If you're having a heart attack, for example, common sense prevails....same for all their regulations. That's all paraphrased of course, but he made his point clear in my mind.

This is really a moot point for me now, as I bought an EPRIB, which SHOULD work better than a visual signal anyway.

However, anyone going into the wilderness should have multiple ways of signaling distress. Everything from mirrors, electronics, and knowledge of leaving rock cairns, and brightly colored fabric trails. There are also recreation type specific signals which vary by discipline.

I guess the whole point of this thread is know all of them and be prepared.

BTW, a proper marine flair SHOULD never reach the ground with hot embers. That's should.....not denying it can't happen.

[blkmagikca]

Ham radio works. If not 2-metres, then definitely HF.

[dljosephson]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

The "Spot" emergency locator beacons are $99/year for basic service, and the device costs $150 or so.

That is probably the best single-purchase solution to emergency alerting, and work anywhere on the planet. However, you would want to research who the SPOT/GEOS people would contact in the specific wilderness where you were. They have some very ambitious claims and I would expect that they have decent relations with, for instance, all the Forest Service law/fire people -- but I would want to confirm this.

As with any emergency preparedness exercise, the hardware is only a small part of the equation. You would be well advised to work out, for wherever you are, *who* the emergency responders would be, *where* they would be coming from, etc. Just like a pilot is always considering where the landing spot would be if the engine quit *now* you need to keep this sort of awareness in the back of your mind at all times. Probably the most important emergency gear would be some basic training such as the serious wilderness first aid courses (NOLS or through REI)

[Boondocker]

Means wild. To me, insistence on 24/7 rapid response to save your chestnuts is the antithesis of the wilderness experience. Prepare yourself, manage the risks, be self reliant. The day that self-reliance is removed as integral to being in the wilds, we will have become a much poorer people.Those seeking the illusion of wilderness with the safety net, should stay in the National Parks in the high traffic areas. Lets not turn our wild spaces into wireless zones, next step would be paved trails and railings everywhere. If you insist on the 24/7 big brother coverage, perhaps boondocking, let alone the backcountry are not for you.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Boondocker

Means wild. To me, insistence on 24/7 rapid response to save your chestnuts is the antithesis of the wilderness experience. Prepare yourself, manage the risks, be self reliant. The day that self-reliance is removed as integral to being in the wilds, we will have become a much poorer people.Those seeking the illusion of wilderness with the safety net, should stay in the National Parks in the high traffic areas. Lets not turn our wild spaces into wireless zones, next step would be paved trails and railings everywhere. If you insist on the 24/7 big brother coverage, perhaps boondocking, let alone the backcountry are not for you.

How old are you? Just curious. I have arrived at an age where I am in a higher risk group for any number of things, but am not willing to give up the wilderness. I also am not willing to take the same level of risk as when I was 35. The odds are stacking up.

I resent your glib analysis of telling folks where they should and should not stay or go. I go to places where I have seen ZERO people in a 5 day trip. I will continue to do so as long as I am capable and after that, my children have promised to carry my heavy loads so I can go a few more years.
That doesn't mean stupidity prevails and I don't take emergency ELECTRONIC equipment with me.

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

How old are you? Just curious. I have arrived at an age where I am in a higher risk group for any number of things, but am not willing to give up the wilderness. I also am not willing to take the same level of risk as when I was 35. The odds are stacking up.

I resent your glib analysis of telling folks where they should and should not stay or go. I go to places where I have seen ZERO people in a 5 day trip. I will continue to do so as long as I am capable and after that, my children have promised to carry my heavy loads so I can go a few more years.
That doesn't mean stupidity prevails and I don't take emergency ELECTRONIC equipment with me.

Sorry you chose to be offended. My analysis was not glib at all, but rather reflects honestly held philosophy. What I am saying is that encroachment of the 911 mentality and technologies into the backcountry homogenizes travel and dilutes the character of wilderness and forest travel. When the last corner of earth has been homogenized, where will one go then for adventure? I stand by my statement that people who insist on immediate rescue assistance being available would be better off staying in those areas where it is.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

I resent your glib analysis of telling folks where they should and should not stay or go.

I think you're a little oversensitive here. What Rodney is saying is that until one gains some experience in the wilds, miles from civilization, without marked trails and cell phone service, they need to learn to be self-reliant. The National Parks are not Disneyland with rangers around every corner. You can get lost and things can eat you. Many who venture beyond their limits can panic and start doing things that will not help them to be found or rescued. I have traveled back trails only to find 2 wheel drive sedans stuck, a cut tire without a full spare, and a bottle of water for a family of four. There are those who should just not cross the line if they intend to rely on 911 as their personal saviour.