GFCI breaker tripping w/nothing plugged in

[dumbclub]

Originally Posted by dumbclub

I removed it from the WFCO panel, so it is definitely not energized. The ON/OFF switch springs back to the OFF position every time I try to engage it. Shouldn't it stay ON when I flip the switch? It also behaved this way when it was installed in the panel, with or without power applied.

Does that mean the breaker is bad?

I can now answer my own question.

I gambled that the breaker was bad and bought a new Siemens 15 amp GFCI breaker from Lowe's for $59.31. After verifying that it snapped crisply into either the ON or OFF position with no current applied, I installed it in the panel and found that everything worked fine. I now have all my A/C circuits working again.

My original breaker had failed for no reason that I'm aware of - still a total mystery.

So, one indicator of a bad GFCI breaker: If it can't be switched between ON and OFF and always springs back to the OFF position, it's no good.

[robearl733]

After my 2016 25 FC was about 26 months old the the GFIC started tripping. We were traveling and I found no reason for it to trip. I started blowing a fan on the panel box with door open. That pretty much stopped it from tripping. After we got home, took in to dealer and they found GFIC breaker was bad and replaced it. That has fixed the problem. Some how the bad breaker was heating up and tripping, replacing it solved the problem. Covered under warranty.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by dumbclub

I can now answer my own question.

I gambled that the breaker was bad and bought a new Siemens 15 amp GFCI breaker from Lowe's for $59.31. After verifying that it snapped crisply into either the ON or OFF position with no current applied, I installed it in the panel and found that everything worked fine. I now have all my A/C circuits working again.

My original breaker had failed for no reason that I'm aware of - still a total mystery.

So, one indicator of a bad GFCI breaker: If it can't be switched between ON and OFF and always springs back to the OFF position, it's no good.

Thanks for the update. GFI breakers go bad all the time. Often it is easier to just buy a new one, as one of the first steps in the diagnostic process.

If the breaker is not the problem, you now have an extra, and have narrowed down the possible cause, with a minimum of time and effort.

Peter

[aikenjt]

Hi again everybody! I posted this issue originally in May this year. Thought the problem was fixed and now its back! Was wondering if anyone had any pointers. To recap (and add a new finding), I have a 2018 Bambi 22' Sport that has a single GFCI circuit breaker that trips instantly when connected to shore power. It has been connected to a 30amp outlet (non-GFCI) wired directly to my house for several weeks. I've used it off and on (for visitors, cleaning it, etc) and have never had the problem. Then this past weekend my wife had a little backyard campout with the grandbabies. As I went to setup some things I found the GFCI breaker tripped and cannot make it hold. I've checked various things (no charring anywhere, turned of all other breakers except main, checked for moisture in outlets (only 4 on this circuit, 1-outside by door, 1 at each sink (2) and 1 feeding the fridge), checked to see of I have short from neutral to ground (with shore power disconnected!) and ALL looks good. But, one thing new is I can connect my Champion generator using the same shore power cable and the breaker holds. I suppose that could mean my problem is with my 30amp home power but I can find no issues with it either! Any ideas?

[aikenjt]

...bump...


Anybody?

[gator.bigfoot]

What does this breaker power. Outside only or outside plus bathroom? Anything else?

I'm going to assume that your breaker is ok, since you tried replacing it earlier. I'm not going to assume that the ground fault you are experiencing is valid. Perhaps what you are experiencing is the breaker tripping for another reason. I would start by replacing it with a non gfci breaker and see if it holds, or just ohm out the circuit. Just make sure you unplug from shore power.

If there is no issue with the circuit staying powered with a non gfci then you definitely have a ground fault issue. Start by replacing your outlets. One by one. Also, when you are doing this take a look inside the box and make sure the ground wire is attached to the box and the outlet.

[kscherzi]

The GFI should be connected to outlets near water. So the bathroom, kitchen area, exterior outlet, and possibly the fridge. I assume this would be easy to figure out when plugged into power and GFI tripped. Just see which outlets don't have power.

The GFI is tripping because of a short somewhere. I'd remove all the connected outlets and check the wiring. If okay then disconnect the wiring downstream of the GFI, power up, and see if it trips. Keep going downstream until it trips.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by aikenjt

...bump...


Anybody?

I’m not too surprised it works with the generator if you don’t have a grounding plug at the generator.

GFCI devices are very sensitive and work by sensing an imbalance in the current between hot and neutral. The idea is that if there’s a current imbalance, the some amount of current is finding its way through ground. It only takes a few milliamps of imbalance to trip the GFCI device...and they trip very quickly. It doesn’t take a dead short to trip it. So I’m not too surprised that you couldn’t detect a fault if you were using a multimeter.

Seeing that you already changed out the GFCI device, I’m thinking You might have a water leak somewhere. Any moisture getting into a downstream receptacle or wiring connection could trip the GFCI and still present itself as a high impedance to your ohmmeter.

[aikenjt]

***PROBLEM SOLVED****


First, thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. Secondly, finally took some time to systematically go through the system. Tried connecting to one of my home's 120V 20amp GFCI plugs via extension cord to RV power cord and with the GFCI breaker in the camper off, it did not trip the house GFCI. Didn't trip it when I turned on the camper GFCI breaker, either. Although, the camper GFCI breaker still tripped. So, went back to connecting camper to houses external 30amp power, turned off all breakers except main and pulled the first power socket downstream from the breaker (over the kitchen sink). As I pulled it out I found a pretty good nick in the outer sheath feeding this plug. So, I made sure it was clear of any close contact to the camper skin and turned on the GFCI breaker and it didn't trip! Put it back in as it was and the breaker trips. The nick in the sheath only exposed the hot wire (black) but even though I couldn't see any exposed copper I figured the hot wire sheath must have also been nicked so I taped it up with electrical tape, put the receptical back in its mounting hole and it still tripped! Pulled it out where the wire was clear from the camper skin, the breaker would not trip. So, for now I moved the wiring behind the outlet up above the plug (it was all kinda bunched up to the left of the plug before) and its no longer tripping after mounting the plug back in it's place. Apparently, there's something else on that wire that I can't see that's still nicked or whatever. Regardless, I know "about" where the issue is and will have to take some time to replace that romex run. For now, the GFCI is confirmed it's doing its job as advertised! This was great experience in learning to trust these little safety gadgets. Thanks again for the great folks on this forum!

[andyherman]

Useful posts. I woke up last night and noticed the nightlight in the bathroom was out. Thought maybe the bulb was dead, but then went into the galley and saw that the cell phones plugged into the outlet next to the sink weren't being charged. Opened the electrical panel and the GFI breaker was tripped. Tried re-setting and it tripped again after a few seconds. I unplugged everything that was plugged into the GFI circuits (outlets near bathroom and kitchen sink, outlet under table on rear bulkhead) and the breaker still trips.


I'm full-timing and it snowed here night before last so I don't know if water may have gotten into the system somewhere (on that note, I put $300.00 non-refundable down on a cover for the AS with Coast to Coast Carports back in Sept. and am still waiting for them to install it - THEY scheduled an appointment a month ago but never showed up . . . - now they won't respond to calls or texts).


Looking for a new breaker, but not sure which would be the correct one. The other breakers are Cutler-Hammer, so searched for that but the only one that comes up is a 15 amp. I know C-H is more or less the same as Eaton, but the breakers I'm seeing don't look anything like the one in my AS - any suggestions?


Thanks!

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by andyherman

Looking for a new breaker, but not sure which would be the correct one. The other breakers are Cutler-Hammer, so searched for that but the only one that comes up is a 15 amp. I know C-H is more or less the same as Eaton, but the breakers I'm seeing don't look anything like the one in my AS - any suggestions?


Thanks!

Your breakers are Cutler Hammer? I thought the 2007 were Square D? But you are right Eaton does make a lot of breakers that fit other panels. You could even install a GFCI outlet next to the panel and use the output to power the downstream circuit if you can't find a match. They used to sell blank face GFCI 15 amp outlets for this purpose, but now all I can find is 20 amp.

But your breaker may be ok. How handy are you? I would try to remove the outlets affected and try just to pull them out of the box. See if the wiring is still attached properly. If not fix that. When all of the outlets are out of the box then turn on the GFCI breaker and see if it still trips. If it still trips you could try to disconnect the wiring in the panel and swap it with another circuit (15 amp) and see if it trips. If it still trips the breaker is likely defective. If not you have a wiring issue. The breaker can trip for 2 reasons, one is a ground fault issue and the other is an overload like a short. Make sure you don't have a short. You can ohm out the circuit and see if there is one. Ohm the circuit between Hot and Neutral, Hot and Ground and Neutral and ground. Make sure the wires at the panel are disconnected for that test and in all cases make sure you are not working with live power. If for any reason you have a wiring issue you need to find the problem and not power up that circuit. This may involve trying to remove the wiring to the affected outlets and replacing it. Hopefully the issue is a simple fix.

Good luck.

[bibbs]

CH makes several types of circuit breakers to fit all current manufacturers. As does squareD many are interchangeable, as well I would think about a non GFI just for “testing”

[andyherman]

Thanks for the replies. (I originally uploaded a photo of the breakers, but for whatever reason they never got actually uploaded - tried again and seems to have worked this time.)
I'm by no means handy when it comes to electrical. However, a friend who used to be an electrician on boats came over and we were able to determine the breaker is fine.

After determining there definitely was an issue somewhere in the wiring for the kitchen/lounge he removed the outlet by the sink and the outer set of leads fell out so only one set of leads was connected to that outlet. It took both of us working together to get the actual outlet out from the plastic housing it;s contained in.
He tried resetting the breaker and IT WORKED - didn't trip. Not sure if the Kitchen outlet is the first outlet in the chain from the power supply. Just for the heck of it we checked the outlet in the bathroom and - IT WORKS as well - yeah!
Unfortunately, that's as far as we got because re-connecting the leads to the outlet next to the sink tripped the breaker.
I called Airstream of Scottsdale and was able to get a wiring diagram for the 2007 Safari, so hopefully that will provide the info we need to trace the wiring. This is all Greek to me so hopefully my friend can figure this all out.
I'm going to try to attach the pdf they sent in case anyone else may need it.

[andyherman]

After studying the wiring diagram the circuit goes from the main power supply to the outside outlet, then to the bathroom, then the kitchen sink, reefer, TV, and ends at the outlet under the table on the rear bulkhead. However, both the bathroom and kitchen sink outlets have power, but there is no power at the outside outlet. I did order new outlets from Airstream of Portland. The parts guy said he checked with their senior tech and that person said either the bathroom outlet or the outlet next to the kitchen sink should have had a resettable GFCI but NONE of the outlets in my AS have resettable GFCI's.

Just wondering if anyone with a similar vintage AS has a coach that came with resettable GFCI outlets originally installed in their coaches?

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by andyherman

Just wondering if anyone with a similar vintage AS has a coach that came with resettable GFCI outlets originally installed in their coaches?

Mine came with the resetable GFCI outlets. Bathroom for sure. Can't remember if the Fridge was as well.

[gmattingly]

I recall seeing a post when I had this problem with the GFI Breaker tripping, and someone posted they put a regular breaker in and replaced the outlets with thin GFI outlets they found at Home Depot. Does this make sense? I've a 2016 Serenity and have replaced the GFI breaker once already. Fixed the problem for a while, now I am having the breaker trip and low voltage. Thoughts or suggestions?

[gator.bigfoot]

If you have a gfi breaker you don't need the outlets gfi as well. If the outlet is a gfi then you need to be careful how you hook it up. If it is at end of the run then only that outlet is protected, but if it has wires running to another location then you have choice. Either the downstream circuit will be protected by gfi or not. All depends how you hook up that outlet.