Electric GlobeTrotter

[goldenchase]

I continue working my way through an all electric conversion of my new 2022 GT FB Twin.

Multiplus-II installed along with four LifeBlue batteries working through routine testing of the AC and DC systems. This is my first experience with lithium batteries. Very interesting differences compared to AGM's.

I have tested the MultiPlus II balanced loading. The trailer is plugged into a 50 amp source but by manually limiting the maximum current input it is really interesting to watch the MultiPlus II make up the difference in current flow from the lithium batteries providing full 120 volts to all AC sources on both Leg 1 and Leg 2. I discovered this when I set the Multiplus to limit input to 10 amps via shore power. I turned on both air conditioning systems and the Multiplus immediately made up for the short fall in amps by pulling from lithium batteries to keep the air conditioning units running. This will be really handy for those locations with 20 and 30 amp shore power.

The four LifeBlue 100ah batteries were installed in the driver's side storage area under the bed. The four batteries fit end to end with about 1/4" to spare. Still completing the installation but they are working.





Control panels under the TV had to be redone with a new panel since the old holes did not align well with the Victron Color Control.



Beginning to clean up the "rats nest" 12 volt wiring under the forward curb side bed. Pulled the gas fired hot water heater and preparing the area for a Bosch electric instant hot water tank in the same place.

Discovered a new "rats nest" of both AC and DC wiring next to and underneath the gas fired hot water heater. Very messy installation. Very long leads on everything so redoing all the poor wiring installation is taking more time than I thought.





I discovered the structure holding the curb side twin bed is only held to the floor with 8 wood screws, so I was able to slide the whole structure into the bedroom isle to do the work. It appears the bed support (along with under bed storage) could be repositioned closer to the center of the bedroom giving around 5 to 6 more inches of bed width while increasing the size of curb side storage area under the bed. More on that later.

[goldenchase]

New electrical system is slowly coming fully on line for the electrical system conversion. Victron VRM Portal now live through an onboard CradlePoint IBR900 cellular router. Real time electrical system status of the trailer can be viewed via the internet. Trailer is located in an aircraft hangar plugged into 50 amp shore power. LifeBlue lithium batteries are "floating" at 13.67 volts.

Solar controller has not been hooked up yet but it will show as another block on the VRM portal.

[Prettygood]

Awesome. You are ahead of the curve! Nice install

[GMFL]

Looks very cleanly done. Nice work!

[Merlintiaga]

this is a very cool project. Nicely done!! Will you be able to run the a/c for a limited time on battery power? I’d love to be able to do this as we stop along the road to keep the dog cool.

[goldenchase]

Making interesting discoveries as I pull apart the factory electrical system. I have the factory solar option with two Amp 90W panels. Attached to the battery box is a Zamp solar plug to be used with a portable solar panel. That plug on the battery box is wired directly to the battery. It does not pass to the solar controller that came with the Airstream Solar Option.

[Prettygood]

Originally Posted by goldenchase

Making interesting discoveries as I pull apart the factory electrical system. I have the factory solar option with two Amp 90W panels. Attached to the battery box is a Zamp solar plug to be used with a portable solar panel. That plug on the battery box is wired directly to the battery. It does not pass to the solar controller that came with the Airstream Solar Option.

That is correct. There is an assumption that the portable panel has a separate controller. If you want to use a panel without a controller, then you would want it to run through the rooftop controller.

[Merlintiaga]

Golden Chase: Awesome project and I love your TV too. The Ford Hybrid is a great concept, but does come in quite short in payload. From your other posts on the Forums, I have followed your quest to lower the tongue weight from your trailer. I am waiting on delivery of a 2022 27FBQ Globetrotter myself and have been thinking a lot about payload. My TV is a 2012 GMC Yukon Denali with 1533 pounds of payload (1650 with the 3rd row seats pulled out). I have a 6.2L 450 HP gasoline engine so plenty of towing capacity, it's the payload that is the issue (just like your hybrid Ford).

Any thoughts of installing a counter weight in the back of the trailer? It's not an elegant solution like going to all-electric, but if you find yourself close but short of your goal, it seems like an easy (and relatively cheap) fix. There are rear receiver hitches like the one linked below. I could see welding end mounts to a solid steel bar and mounting between the frame rails at the very back of the trailer in a similar fashion to this receiver mount. A 200 pound bar would take about 100 pounds of weight off the tongue. Again, it's not elegant and you'd be dragging that 200 pounds of parasitic weight everywhere you go, but if it enables you to make payload, it may not be the worst thing. Thoughts?

https://torkliftcentral.com/airstrea...ry-hitch-x8000

Oh, and sorry if this isn't the right thread for this post. Wasn't exactly sure where to put it.

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

Any thoughts of installing a counter weight in the back of the trailer? It's not an elegant solution like going to all-electric, but if you find yourself close but short of your goal, it seems like an easy (and relatively cheap) fix. .

We have a bunch of "experts" about trailer sway on the forum. I would guess they would all say adding mass at the end of the trailer to solve a heavy hitch is a bad idea. I would agree.

My goal is to reduce hitch weight and total weight of the trailer. To do that removing the heavy propane equipment and weight shifting electrical components closer to the trailer center of gravity seem to be the right approach.

I have now cleaned up most of the "rats nest".

Here is how it started:



And here is the progress to date. Note all the new storage space gained in the twin bed front storage area by cleaning up the "rats nest".

[goldenchase]

Slow but steady progress on the AllElectric GlobeTrotter. Propane fired cooktop is history replaced by an induction cooktop. Another 11 lbs of weight savings for the trailer. 3 burner propane cooktop is much larger than the 2 burner induction cooktop so additional trim was required. When not in use the induction cooktop can serve as counter space just like the cover over the propane cooktop.

[wulfraat]

Heya cool project. What is your plan for hot water? Do you plan to mostly be on shore power?

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Heya cool project. What is your plan for hot water? Do you plan to mostly be on shore power?

Forgot to update on hot water. Installed Bosch 8 gallon electric hot water heater. Here are the before and after for the curb side modification.

Either shore power, lithium batteries for limited use (hot water, induction cook) and the F-150 PowerBoost with the 7.2 kw ProPower OnBoard. One way or another I have enough watts to enjoy "Glamping".

Heating conversion next.

Note "rats nest" all cleaned up.

Before:



After:

[wulfraat]

Nice. That’s a big power source at 7200watts. Will juice things back up with your multi plus. Great feature!

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Nice. That’s a big power source at 7200watts. Will juice things back up with your multi plus. Great feature!

Yes, the F-150 should be able to bring the 400ah lithium back to full charge pretty quick using the Multiplus II. I am guessing off grid the F-150 will only be needed a hour a day to top off the lithium batteries before considering what ever comes in from the solar controller. With air conditioning the F-150 will be running a lot more depending on outside air temperature.

[goldenchase]

Propane "debris" continues to pile up in the hangar where I am doing the GlobeTrotter AllElectric conversion. Good demonstration of just how heavy propane powered appliances and storage can be in an RV. Associated plumbing has not all been removed. Box in the image contains all the excess electrical wiring removed from the trailer.

Next challenge is heat. I am considering several options all with a theme of light weight, high btu/lb appliances. Right now considering a hybrid system that can be adjusted for seasonal use. Thinking about an electric baseboard heater for Summer use, then adding a Espar diesel heater for other than Summer use. With the battery box now free it can be used to store diesel fuel. Espar heaters provide the most btu per pound of system/fuel weight and can be installed/deinstalled in minutes. Ideas would be welcome for heating options.

[wulfraat]

What was your motivation to be all electric? Heating will be very expensive power-wise using electricity.

You'll get just ~2 hours of heat out of your overheat heat pumps on 400ah of lithium for instance. electric space heater would give you a similar "burn" rate for stored energy.

Diesel seems to defeat the purpose of not carrying fuel but I am not sure what your end game is.

Those Spar heaters are really for smaller spaces - semi-truck sleeper cab, vans, etc.. you have a lot of cubic feet to heat in a 23' airstream which is why airstream use a ducted furnace system with higher BTU and a big fan to circulate air.

[goldenchase]

d

Originally Posted by wulfraat

What was your motivation to be all electric? Heating will be very expensive power-wise using electricity.

You'll get just ~2 hours of heat out of your overheat heat pumps on 400ah of lithium for instance. electric space heater would give you a similar "burn" rate for stored energy.

Diesel seems to defeat the purpose of not carrying fuel but I am not sure what your end game is.

Like the vast majority of folks who use an Airstream, Summer is the prime season. I have enough "watts" around to handle heat in the US during the Summer.

I operated an RV with an Espar diesel heater for 6 years. These heaters work very well. No compressed gas, very light weight, easy to find diesel and they are very, very efficient. No comparison carrying around a compressed gas at 150 psi in heavy containers and a few gallons of diesel in a steel battery box outside of the living space.

I have also considered just leaving the propane fired heater in place with connection at the base of the heater under trailer. With that option it would be easy to hook up portable propane bottles directly to the heater to handle those situations where you want the full forced air propane furnace for extended periods of time. Dometic propane heater weight around 30 lbs with ducting.

[goldenchase]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

What was your motivation to be all electric? Heating will be very expensive power-wise using electricity.

And this is a good question which I saved for a separate post. The history of my decision is in the posts made back to last Spring on this forum. At that time I decided to go with the combination of an F-150 PowerBoost/7.2kw ProPower onboard and the AS Globetrotter 25FB Twin. Everyone who has studied the AS 25FB models know these trailers have a serious hitch weight problem. They are delivered with all the options and have 14.5% of the trailer weight on the hitch. That is empty before filling up the ample storage space forward of the center of gravity.

The excessive hitch weight creates all sorts of TV issues (hitch weight rating, GVWR of the TV and axle weight ratings). All this drives people to use excessively large weight distribution devices and/or bigger trucks.

The root of the problem with AS 25FB models is axle position versus center of gravity. Not much can be done about that. But you can do something about 220lbs of propane storage and AGM batteries sitting on the hitch. That is how my project began.

Move the energy storage devices (lithium batteries/inverter) closer to the center of gravity while significantly reducing hitch weight and total trailer weight by eliminating propane and heavy lead acid batteries.

The result is an AllElectric GlobeTrotter 25FB with only 12.2% of the weight on the hitch empty (before water and cargo). It all seems to be coming together as planed. I cannot get the new hitch weight until I put it all back together. The project continues.

[goldenchase]

Testing continues with the new Victron Multiplus-II and LifeBlue Lithium batteries in the AllElectric GlobeTrotter conversion.

Today I tested the F-150 ProPower Onboard generator. Some Victron message boards have been reporting inconsistent behavior with some generators and the MultiPlus-II, so I was anxious to see how it worked.

For the test all the lights were on in the trailer with the one television running and both air conditioners operating in the "Cool" mode with compressors on line.

The entire system pulled 3,000 watts from the Ford while the Ford gas motor quietly cycled on and off to top off the hybrid battery. The F-150 quietly idled around 800 RPM when the engine was running. The test was a complete success. The MultiPlus-II and the F-150 ProPower OnBoard appear to be compatible. The ProPower OnBoard displays both legs of the 50(30) amp connection. Channel A corresponds to Leg 1 and Channel B is Leg 2.

So in this trailer configuration the F-150 still has another 4,200 watts available from ProPower OnBoard. The F-150 could easily power two Airstream FB25 trailers with the same configuration, fully powered with both air conditioners running. What an amazing new innovation for those with travel trailers.

[daleyocum]

On my FC25 I have 500ah of lithium, a multiplus, and 600w of solar and can go the whole summer without ever breaking out the generator. We also cook with induction, have a Beville electric oven, microwave, etc. That got me feeling pretty cocky about camping off grid. We just got back for a week at the Oregon Coast in November, though, and I was sure glad we have both propane heat and the generator. We went though a 30lb propane tank in three days and needed to recharge 3-4 hours a day with the Honda 2000 propane converted generator. Solar, as it turns out, was doing a lot. We missed it mightily during the cloudy days at the Oregon coast.

Your truck will certainly recharge the battery for normal use. With more solar it might even not be needed in the summer. I’d suggest doing your idea of leaving the propane heater in place for a season with an external tank and see how that goes. In fact you could even use the existing propane connection by the tongue to feed it just by capping off everything else you’ve disconnected and putting a regulator on the external tank connection.