How do you handle fraud?

[Eagle & Bear]

We have been full timing (traveling and living in a 29’ 1976 Airstream) for the past 12+ years. I have MS and cannot do some of the heavy maintenance on our tow vehicle or trailer. Six months ago we had a shop in Las Vegas redo our brakes on the trailer (double axle/electric). I got a quote of $1000. I have had my backing plate and shoes replaced six years before and I was charged $850 so I thought $1000 would be OK. They asked me if I wanted manual or automatic adjusting. I chose automatic.

When I returned to the shop they said that I owe them $1700. I eventually talked them down to $1400 and left.

Question #1 I was quoted $1000 but they wanted to charge me $1700. At 70 I do not pose much of a threat. How do you handle this kind of fraud?

Fast forward to now. The brakes had been grabbing and one wheel was getting hot (TPMS indicated an increase in pressure). I did not want to pay someone else to work on the brakes so I stopped at a Walmart. Jacked up the wheel and pulled the drum off. The rear brake shoe was less than 1/32" thick and the brakes are manually adjustable not automatic.

Question #2 I cannot take our trailer back to the shop that did the original work. What can you do if you find that someone has charged you for the more expensive part (automatic brakes) and installed the brakes that are adjusted manually? I did write to BBB but they never replied to the letter.

[AlbertF]

A few things come to mind:

1. If you can assemble good evidence - the invoice says self adjusting and specifies parts that are not there - you can write them a letter demanding a refund.
2. You can sue. The court system where you are will have a process for small claims initiated by self-represented litigants.
3. Public shaming - post a copy of the invoice along with photos of your brakes and let it speak for itself.

The pricing seems very high. I’ve paid $45 Canadian for non-self adjusting backing plates/shoes, and about $70 for a new brake drum complete with bearings and a seal. This was for a 1975 27’. These are not Airstream-specific parts. Also, installation involves minimal labour on top of a bearing service. I think $1000 complete is fair, plus whatever premium is needed for self adjusters.

I’m glad I have the ability to do my own mechanical work. It saves time, money and hassle.

Others may have different opinions.

[Foiled Again]

Write a Google review. Call the police dept. Where it happened and file a complaint. Find out if there is a consumer protection bureau at the local or state level and if so, also file a complaint there if possible. Then contact the news departments of all the local TV stations and see if they will do an investigative report. Emphasize your MS when soliciting their help.
Being a big pest helps. Of you ARE a local and can take someone to small claims court, it helps, but you generally have to cause the business PAIN in the pocketbook.

In future, always read a lot of reviews before you give anyone your hard earned money. No one gets perfect reviews, and more than a few businesses pay for.phony positive ones. Also post on the forums asking for local referrals, warnings and feedback before you do the work. Insist on inspecting the work before everything is put back together. And the second someone tries to jack the price call the police and insist on a complete inspection of the work that was allegedly done.

You are unlikely to get any quick resolution and you may only get the satisfaction of helping.someone else avoid the business that wronged you, but even a 5% chance is better than nothing.

[BigSxyWhtGuy]

If you paid with credit card just challenge the charge. Have all the information you need with photos to back up with what you have on the trailer installed. I would pull more tires to verify they are all like that.

[Lily&Me]

I would start with calling the service manager where you had the work done, and then email that person with a detailed accounting of what happened and pictures.

Ask how this will be made right, and insist that it happen.

Keep going up the ladder if needed.

I have had a couple such incidents since traveling alone, and this has been effective.

Good luck,

Maggie

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by BigSxyWhtGuy

If you paid with credit card just challenge the charge. Have all the information you need with photos to back up with what you have on the trailer installed. I would pull more tires to verify they are all like that.

Ditto to this good advice IMO. We have had very good results from AmEx on issues like this.

Maggie's advice would be a good parallel road to take.

Best of luck E&B,

Peter

[Ray Eklund]

Michael... Contact Las Vegas Airstream in Henderson. Either call or visit with your trailer. 702-835-8300- Troy Service Manager and Chris in Service. He is on top of things!

Remember, they are in business and if they charge to inspect your brakes... that is your cost of getting reliable feedback.

I trust them 100%. They are off the I-515 and you can see the Airstreams from the Highway. (5050 East Russell Rd. 89122) Steve in Service. Also a Steve in parts.

Often... what you received was an ESTIMATE of costs. No one knows what is actually needing repair until they look. They will charge to pull the wheel(s) to inspect. I stand there like someone is going through my wallet... kind of person. Did you? Just asking to clear things up.

I would have people on the telephone ask me what I charge to 'fix their antique slot machine?' Helps if I see it. Did it 'use to work' kind of situation. Often someone else 'jacked it up' good and now want to pass the special project onto my shoulder. I would look and recognize this was not going to be pleasant for the owner, and seen this before.

Personally... I hate to clean up after someone else 'did the work'. Now I become responsible for anything that goes wrong. (I am just giving you feedback from my perspective, as I have no dog in this fight... and it will be.)

It would help if you list the CHARGES. A lot of places doing RV Work are around $100 an hour. I do not know what Airstream LV rates are... but ask.

If you list the charges of your previous work, you now have a Jury ready to help and do not be embarrassed to offer the name of the business. Often... this makes a big difference in THEIR attitude. Everyone knows each other in the business.

I suspect you went to a RV Dealership in Las Vegas. My neighbor is a 'regular', if so. Hold your breath. They may be $200 an hour... although not sure.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Eagle & Bear

We have been full timing (traveling and living in a 29’ 1976 Airstream) for the past 12+ years.
. . .

PS to earlier post -- it might help if you let us know where you are located now, as this could help refine the feedback. How far from that repair shop in Las Vegas ["six months ago"] are you?

Good luck,

Peter

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

PS to earlier post -- it might help if you let us know where you are located now, as this could help refine the feedback. How far from that repair shop in Las Vegas ["six months ago"] are you?

Good luck,

Peter

******
I had a PM yesterday that they were in Las Vegas.

This was the first I heard about Brake Issues, finding this Thread. I was unaware until 10:27AM this morning.

I should have added this to this post. Good that you asked.

[OTRA15]

Thanks

[Atwebs]

Might add in the future; get a complete written estimate with an "overage" limit and a request to call for authorization for any additional cost, get names of whomever you talk to and jot them down, ask for both your used parts back and packaging/serial numbers on your new parts. And, you can even request time to speak with the mechanic that serviced your vehicle -ask they what they did, what issues they found, why they increased the estimate, maybe even inspect their work (or pretend to). Then, charge it all to your best credit card (one that will fully stand behind you).

My son is shop foreman for an automotive repair facility and he said all these things are easy for them to do, folks just don't request it. They don't remember who they talked to or exactly what was said, they don't really check the work that was done and even in good shops, something can go awry.

Last, never ignore the impact of reviews, whether Yelp or the dealership or even on a local list. Dealerships DO pay attention to those irritating "how did this experience compare with your ideal repair experience" and you may get support from higher up in resolving issues. Even a few really bad reviews will impact a business and keep someone else from getting scammed as well.

[davidlparker]

Please presume you are not the first person to be victimized by this shop. Why waste time and energy with other efforts. File a claim in small claim court and file a complaint with the law enforcement agency having jurisdiction, e.g., city police department, county sheriff's department. Also, if you have not protest the entire amount with your credit card company, if you charged the expense.

As soon as your credit card company returns the funds to your account, get the work done properly by a reputable shop. I also think using social networks to make others aware of the unscrupulous nature of this business is an excellent idea. Do not say anything that is not the truth, however. The truth is an absolute defense against any allegations of defamation, slander, liable, etc.

[james.mileur]

Ray,
thanks for this thread; yes, the good ole days . . . we currently enjoy the Flathead Lake area, but looks like back to Hawaii since just visiting the new grandbaby. We are self-quarantining to ensure we don't flip Montana into the "active cases" category.

This link from my favorite Performance Improvement company, PPI, who went pro-active to provide good info for minimal effort to stay well during the current pandemic.

https://www.ppiweb.com/covid-updates/

Keep it safe out there.

[Silver.Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Lily&Me

I would start with calling the service manager where you had the work done, and then email that person with a detailed accounting of what happened and pictures.

Ask how this will be made right, and insist that it happen.

Keep going up the ladder if needed.

I have had a couple such incidents since traveling alone, and this has been effective.

Good luck,

Maggie

This is probably the best start. No sense escalating this unless it is necessary

[james.mileur]

Originally Posted by james.mileur

Ray,
thanks for this thread; yes, the good ole days . . . we currently enjoy the Flathead Lake area, but looks like back to Hawaii since just visiting the new grandbaby. We are self-quarantining to ensure we don't flip Montana into the "active cases" category.

This link from my favorite Performance Improvement company, PPI, who went pro-active to provide good info for minimal effort to stay well during the current pandemic.

https://www.ppiweb.com/covid-updates/

Keep it safe out there.

So sorry; I inadvertently posted this on wrong thread while logging on to post to Ray on another thread..

[21Airstream]

Originally Posted by Foiled Again

... Call the police dept...

While the OP has a legitimate complaint and there is a lot of good advice in this thread, I’m not aware of anything the Police can do as this is a civil issue.

[KK4YZ]

It’s been 6 months. Is it too late to dispute the credit card charges?

Document everything and then get your brakes fixed at a reputable dealer.

Then public shaming is about your only option. Small claims court usually has very little teeth to enforce whatever judgement you may get in your favor.

[AKmtnpilot]

All states have an Attorneys General (spelling correct) and most have a frauds bureau. Send a detailed (with photos for best results) letter by registered mail. Also same or copy to the Better Business Bureau that covers that area, also registered mail. And a copy to the offender. This will usually stir things up a bit BUT not quickly. As stated, this is a civil complaint so law enforcement are not able to intervene. Bummer because you would like to see this guy "cuffed and stuffed"