74 Argosy Audiometric convert

[Magnet18]

Given the scope of the project (a small 74 argosy that is a secondary project to a 78 argosy that is the bigger project) the budget of the project (probably less than what would be required to pay a shop to do a proper diesel swap) and the skill of the wrencher (first wrenching project) it seems to me the obvious answer is to swap in an identical 454 for cheap, build the skills, and save the time and money for installing a cummins in the 78 long term project if you decide you want to.

Cummins is certainly one of the best long term answers if you want something to put hundreds of thousands of miles on for the rest of your life... But it starts an avalanche of side projects to get it to work, from the transmission to the driveshaft to the motor mounts to the gas tank and then generator... And the 454 should do you just fine.

Just my $.02

[bkahler]

I likely would have gone the diesel route but I had a 454 at hand and someone that would rebuild it for me for the cost of parts. Like Rob said, a 454 rebuild would be the quickest and easiest. A diesel would take a fair amount of custom work to make it happen.

Which direction you go is up to you

Brad

[Smartstream]

Search Cummins conversions and you will be amazed at what is out out there. Check out this outfit. https://www.dieselconversion.com/

[GVA]

Originally Posted by bkahler

I likely would have gone the diesel route but I had a 454 at hand and someone that would rebuild it for me for the cost of parts. Like Rob said, a 454 rebuild would be the quickest and easiest. A diesel would take a fair amount of custom work to make it happen.

Which direction you go is up to you

Brad

Thanks guys. I love the options. I think the original idea of taking the 454 out of the 78 and put it in the 74 is what I’m going to do. Where’s that Popular mechanics mag subscription when I need it? Looks like there are plenty of threads from you guys to get me through this in engine swap in One piece. Whether I’ll be sane when it’s over is a completely different question... lol.
I really like the idea of driving the 78 for as long as I can so the Cummins sounds like the perfect option for that top to bottom rebuild. It’s going to be our baby when it’s done...

[GVA]

This morning I had my 74 Argosy towed to my mechanic. I bought a complete 454 rebuild from a 3rd party and it’s being delivered today. I discussed the “grill-bar issue” in the front of the engine and my mechanic said they wouldn’t cut the grill. They would remove the crossbar from the frame and drop it out the bottom. Instead of charging me by the hour he’s going to charge me by the cuss word 🤣 :-). I maybe in serious trouble if that’s the case lol. Actually he estimated $3000 to $3500 in labor costs. He said he would use any mechanically sound part from the old motor (such as the brand new alternator).
Any other worries I should have going into this?

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by GVA

Instead of charging me by the hour he’s going to charge me by the cuss word 🤣 :-).

I never realized this was an option! I'd be rich!!!!

Originally Posted by GVA

Actually he estimated $3000 to $3500 in labor costs. He said he would use any mechanically sound part from the old motor (such as the brand new alternator). Any other worries I should have going into this?

That seems pretty fair, as long as he knows what he's doing. I assume the "new" 454 has a carb and isn't fuel injected? There are quite a few people doing injection kits right now, and many have done so before. Mine is still a carb, and I will keep it that way for now because I want to get to camping, but I know people have had great success with the injection kits. Diesel would be nice, but there's a pretty vast chasm between "the perfect solution" and "what can happen fastest (and cheapest)."

Also... while the front end is apart, you may want to be sure to cover everything you can while you've got access. Make sure all the radiators are solid and clean (they will be infinitely easier to remove during this process). Consider building the proper air flow baffles for cooling if the previous owner did not already make those modifications (directing airflow from the grill to cool the engine). Do any work the dash HVAC might need if you can (I removed my A/C and all the components completely, and will just be using the rooftop unit).

Best of luck!

[GVA]

Great suggestions that I hadn’t thought of... AC doesn’t work anyway and we are putting new Penguins in the MH. I wasn’t aware that the airflow was so important and There have been zero modifications on the motor. Original owner made only modifications to the interior.

[GVA]

Oh And it is the original rebuilt carburetor

[GVA]

In the meantime, While the 74 Argosy is having the motor replaced, I’ve decided to focus on the main goal of remodeling my 78 Airstream 280 MH. So as not to confuse the generous helpers on this thread I will post my new renovation on a different thread entitled “ Complete 1978 Airstream 280 MH restoration”. Probably start it next week with many, many, many questions and many pictures.

I’m not sure I can handle two restores simultaneously but I guess I’ll find out... Anyone out there tried a Double Up restore??

I will leave this thread for the many questions I’ll still have about my 74 Argosy. Like when my mechanic tells me “Well... If I were you I’d do this...$$$ or Well I didn’t anticipate this happening when I took it apart... $$$”
I was already told the complete motor I bought (it came off a Chevy P30 Truck) didn’t have the correct manifolds for the MH. I’m not anticipating much good news in the next couple of weeks but maybe I’ll get lucky...

[triterra]

We have an audiometric that we are converting from a motorcoach to a motorhome. I would love to chat with you and compare notes. I am not sure how many Audiometrics were produced by Airstream but they seem to be fairly rare. I did find a little bit of information in an airstream book. I have not seen the manual or brochure that you have pictured. I would love to get a pdf copy of it from you. I was able to email Airstream and get a little bit of information from them based on the vin.

Ours is a 1978 28' double door with only a back window. There are no side windows except for the driver and passenger windows. The air conditioner is on-board mounted behind the drivers's seat on the floor. We have removed the center sound proof room for safety and weight reasons. The room itself was well insulated (stayed an average of 10 degrees cooler). The doors into the room were like walk-in freezer doors and very heavy. My husband and I each got stuck in the sound proof room alone, it was a scary feeling. The room walls were foam, 3/4" plywood, lead, zinc, foam, zinc, lead, 3/4" plywood and foam sandwiched together (not lightweight). On the side walls there was foam, lead, zinc, lead, aluminum, pink insulation. Even the floor was lead lined.

The floor is actually a double 3/4" subfloor with 1"x 1" diameter rubber spacers between the layers.

So far we have gutted the inside down to the vinyl aluminum walls and removed the interior formed endcap.

We just got the engine running (we believe it sat for 20 years) and it sounds great! We manually cranked/lube the engine. Replaced all the hoses, plugs and wires, distributor cap, rebuilt the edlebrock carburetor, added new fuel line electric fuel pump, filters, battery, tires. It appears the engine was replaced in 1993.

Our biggest hurdle right now is the holding tanks. We are considering doing an above floor black tank with the toilet on a platform. The gray tank will most likely go underneath between the frame rails in back.

[kidjedi]

Wow! Barring the insane weight, it sounds like that would have been a fantastic mobile recording studio.

[GVA]

The one we bought had already been stripped down and remodeled by original owner. I’m not going down that road with my 74. We are in process of doing a complete motor replace to get it up and running... mechanic has fallen way behind after recovering from COVID. Once the motor is complete we will be back to having the complete RV inspection to find out what appliances work and don’t work...

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by triterra

So far we have gutted the inside down to the vinyl aluminum walls and removed the interior formed endcap.

You didn't by any chance weigh the vehicle before tearing it down did you? Or maybe does the literature you have mention anything about a weight? I would really love to know what that kind of structure added (all that lead and extra ply), as I am considering a rolling music/film studio for another build.

Originally Posted by triterra

Our biggest hurdle right now is the holding tanks. We are considering doing an above floor black tank with the toilet on a platform. The gray tank will most likely go underneath between the frame rails in back.

Things to consider... how much boondocking and cold weather will you be doing? My Argosy 24 has the black and gray tanks in the belly (mounted together in a single steel casement), but the fresh water is in the rear, above the deck and under the bed (approx. 45 gallons). Having tanks in the heated cabin is great to prevent freezing, but they do take up a lot of room. Plus, if anything goes wrong with a black tank that is mounted above deck... not fun to deal with.

[GVA]

[QUOTE=GVA;2453002] I will leave this thread for the many questions I’ll still have about my 74 Argosy. Like when my mechanic tells me “Well... If I were you I’d do this...$$$ or Well I didn’t anticipate this
I was already told the complete motor I bought (it came off a Chevy P30 Truck) didn’t have the correct manifolds for the MH. I’m not anticipating much good news in the next

UPDATE: March 28, 2021
Motor has finally been replaced in my 74 Argosy. Mechanic charged me a labor only charge of $3400. He dropped old 454 motor and replaced with rebuilt 454 (2 yr warranty). As you know the 74 has the crossbar so he dropped the motor out the bottom. He replaced old manifolds, gaskets, and hoses. I should get it back by Wednesday.
I will have all appliances and hook ups checked out as soon as I drive away from the shop. There is a toilet but no bathroom sink or shower in the middle of the RV. I added pictures as a reminder of what we are talking about. I’ll add more pictures as I have questions about fixes and improvements.
Thanks I’m advance ... GVA

[Magnet18]

Sounds like you got a pretty good deal there!

[GVA]

Originally Posted by Magnet18

Sounds like you got a pretty good deal there!

Good! I felt like the labor price was fair, but I wasn’t sure. I’m excited to get her back and finish the maintenance check on the rest of it. One of the things I’ve been told by the “Boss” is we have to have a shower. How difficult will that be to add?

[kidjedi]

Originally Posted by GVA

Good! I felt like the labor price was fair, but I wasn’t sure. I’m excited to get her back and finish the maintenance check on the rest of it. One of the things I’ve been told by the “Boss” is we have to have a shower. How difficult will that be to add?

It's not exactly easy, but definitely not impossible. The thing is... how familiar is the Boss with showering in an RV? It is nothing like showering at home, and for that reason, I often suggest NOT installing a shower, and using that space for something actually useful. If you are only camping in the summer, an exterior shower is also a great way to go.

You can purchase a pre-fab unit specific to Airstream (you might even find one used), but others have also created their own. I even built one using a high-end kitchen sink (black composite) as the pan. The big thing here is that other than the toilet and windows, the shower is the main thing that will lead to water damage if it isn't built (sealed up) correctly.

I have found that a large sink with a pull out faucet will give you pretty much the same experience as a "shower" in an RV.

[martin300662]

If you install a wetroom, the shower pan includes a raised area that the WC sits on, so you don't loose any space you just sit with your feet in the shower pan when 'on the loo'.

They also make 'drop down' basins which are your back rest when sitting on the WC and drop down to be above the pan when you stand up.

The issue is the location/accessibility to your grey tank for waste.

[kidjedi]

As you can see, they are extremely comfortable and spacious!

[martin300662]

Originally Posted by kidjedi

As you can see, they are extremely comfortable and spacious!

Well they are the same size as domestic shower base so it depends what you 'need' when you are on the road.