Modest winter camping in a Bambi

[RyeL]

Next week, February 17-22, I'll be towing my 2005 Bambi from California to Portland Oregon. Obviously it won't be like Wisconsin temps. Highs in the upper 40s during the day, and just below freezing at night. I'm planning to drain the water tank and carry a 5 gallon jug of water. If we stay at a campground that has full hookups, I can use a city water connection since it doesn't fill the tank, otherwise we'll use water from the jug. For those who've done some winter camping in their Bambi, will this work? Other issues I need to consider?
Thanks, Rye

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by RyeL

Next week, February 17-22, I'll be towing my 2005 Bambi from California to Portland Oregon. Obviously it won't be like Wisconsin temps. Highs in the upper 40s during the day, and just below freezing at night. I'm planning to drain the water tank and carry a 5 gallon jug of water. If we stay at a campground that has full hookups, I can use a city water connection since it doesn't fill the tank, otherwise we'll use water from the jug. For those who've done some winter camping in their Bambi, will this work? Other issues I need to consider?
Thanks, Rye

I don't know anything about Bambi tanks/ capacity/ location/, but you'll be fine.
I'm 100 miles north, in the mountains, and at 9am today, the ground temp is 40. It was supposed to be 30 for low last night, but was much warmer.Nothing even frosty.
Even around 30s your tank won't freeze.
Forecast for 17/ 18 here is same 30 low, so not bad at all.
I'm assuming that's a single axle.Its always good to drain your gray+black water holding tanks, and even most of fresh water, before towing to keep your weight down in a single axle any type trailer.
That helps avoids dangerous sway issues.Load single axle trailers especially,in front of axle, not behind axle.
Inflate tires on tow vehicle and trailer to max cold pressure.Check tires daily for pressures, shown on tire sidewall. + condition when towing

[CKC]

We’ve camped in below freezing temps in Washington before. The night time temp got down to 17 degrees. We hadn’t planned that on purpose or we might have thought twice about it, but it happened and it worked out fine. We had water in our tank and had no issue at all with it. The furnace kept it really warm inside also. We were overall impressed with our 2004 Bambi. The only problem we had was the sewer line did freeze and I guess we were lucky we didn’t break a pipe. When we got home, we put a drop light under the trailer to thaw the line and took it to dump and winterize the next day or so. I can’t say what temperature will cause the line to freeze, but 17 degrees certainly did. It was one of our son’s favorite camping trips though since we camped by a rushing river and there was about a foot of snow on the ground.

[RyeL]

I figured we'd be fine. With this forum it's nice to get confirmation. Thanks to both of you for your comments.

[Tim A.]

Additional confirmation. In the years since we bought our 2002 19' new, we have spent Septembers in West Yellowstone where it often freezes at night. We do stay in an RV park with hookups and heat the trailer with the propane furnace which has a duct to the gray and black water tanks.

In the 19' trailers, the fresh water tank is below the streetside dinette bench and is quite well protected from freezing. Our trailer's water connection is exposed and it and the gray and black water valves have frozen often with overnight temperatures of about 25°, but there has been no permanent damage. As long as daytime temperatures are above freezing, the cold has given us no problems.

Tim

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by Tim A.

Additional confirmation. In the years since we bought our 2002 19' new, we have spent Septembers in West Yellowstone where it often freezes at night. We do stay in an RV park with hookups and heat the trailer with the propane furnace which has a duct to the gray and black water tanks.

In the 19' trailers, the fresh water tank is below the streetside dinette bench and is quite well protected from freezing. Our trailer's water connection is exposed and it and the gray and black water valves have frozen often with overnight temperatures of about 25°, but there has been no permanent damage. As long as daytime temperatures are above freezing, the cold has given us no problems.

Tim

Here's a tip from a many decade Midwestern winter guy.Now on west coast.
I don't know location of waste tanks valves In those trailers, but in my old yard whale Landyacht, they are inside back hatch, with other plumbing.
Im a long time user of electric heat tape for any plumbing I recommend Frost King, it's time tested, get in different lengths at Home Depot, etc.If you can get to any lines, valves, etc just wrap with heat tape.Tape it as recommended to whatever water line, insulate it, and permently leave it in place.If needed, just plug into shore power 120Volt.It will go on and off automatically, leave temp sensor uninsulated and exposed.
Its simple peace of mind, and doesn't take a lot of heat to keep pipes etc from freezing.Wrap your outside hose line also.They sell 4 foot sections of foam black pipe wrap near the heat tape.Just slip over lines.

[Tim A.]

Hi B. Cole,

We have 12v UltraHeat heat pads on both black and grey water pipes and valves and on the freshwater inlet so do have means of thawing them out. We keep our freshwater tank full and run off it on cold mornings while the Ultraheat pads unthaw everything.

My point remains that some freezing overnight does not seem to harm the pipes, valves, and inlet. It does mean that the valves won't open and the freshwater inlet is blocked. As long as the freezing temperatures do not last through the daylight hours, all is okay. RyeL is not likely to encounter significant freezing temperatures during the day and, as you have pointed out, should have no problems if a little care is taken.

Tim

[FLCoast]

We’ve been caught in the cold, the last time in May at Madison Campground in Yellowstone NP. The park is beautiful with the snow. We ran our furnace with the cabinet and bathroom doors open and had no issues. It wasn’t, however, multiple days of a hard freeze. I would think you’ll be fine.

Although it is off topic, I would disagree with a previous post concerning tanks and travel (non weather related). The only reason you should have to drain your black or gray tanks when traveling is to take advantage of an available dump station so you’re not stuck with full tanks and no place to dump. The same holds true with the fresh water tank. We never pass up an opportunity to fill our tank when good water is available. Traveling between locations is never a problem regardless of how full the tanks are.

Enjoy your trip. Our last trip west took us up the coast from California to BC. We really enjoyed the places we were fortunate to visit and really enjoyed Portland and the surrounding area.

[OTRA15]

The devil is in the details, Rye, and general broad-brush advice will help, but the actual temperature and wind conditions will "drive" your preparations, and on-the-road winterization if required.

There is good advice in the Winterization forum:

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f458/

. . . and in the sticky Topic at the head of the list: https://www.airforums.com/forums/f45...rize-7222.html

"winterizing on the road" -- https://www.google.com/search?q=wint...=airforums.com

Here is this month's forecast for Portland: https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/po...weather/350473

Note the temp line graph at the bottom . . . looks good for Feb 17-22 IMO.

You will have to travel through some high mountain passes on the way to Portland, however, and there may be much colder -- and very windy -- weather en-route, with the risk of freezing pipes especially the outdoor shower valves and so forth. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link!

In addition to draining the water tank [and waste tanks], I would suggest also: drain the water heater, open all your low-point drains, and open the faucets. Gravity and road action will drain your system adequately, without the need for compressed air to complete the job IMO. Good insurance for the high passes which can get very cold and windy, without much notice.

Again, the devil is in the details . . .

Is Mountain Charley's still in Los Gatos? Heard plenty of great live bluegrass music there a long time ago . . . Yee Ha!

Have a great trip.

Travel safe . . . and . . .

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by FLCoast

We’ve been caught in the cold, the last time in May at Madison Campground in Yellowstone NP. The park is beautiful with the snow. We ran our furnace with the cabinet and bathroom doors open and had no issues. It wasn’t, however, multiple days of a hard freeze. I would think you’ll be fine.

Although it is off topic, I would disagree with a previous post concerning tanks and travel (non weather related). The only reason you should have to drain your black or gray tanks when traveling is to take advantage of an available dump station so you’re not stuck with full tanks and no place to dump. The same holds true with the fresh water tank. We never pass up an opportunity to fill our tank when good water is available. Traveling between locations is never a problem regardless of how full the tanks are.

Enjoy your trip. Our last trip west took us up the coast from California to BC. We really enjoyed the places we were fortunate to visit and really enjoyed Portland and the surrounding area.

Most of these probably new to towing people, arnt yanking their single axle trailer ( especially susceptible to dangerous sway conditions) with a F-350 One Ton Tow vehicle.Or a tow truck.Many don't know what trailer sway is, or what causes it.
Their smaller wheelbase and weight capacity SUV type tow vehicles, in many cases, are near / at/ over towing limits,simply by design.
Adding additional weight, while towing a single axle especially, could be very problematic.
A recent post on "Sway, before, during+ after" may prove informative, regarding extra weight behind axles of a trailer.Or a recent post about rear bumper trailer mounted bike racks.Again, which adds sway inducing weight behind axles.Etc etc etc.
While I'm at it, I'll make another statement about weight.If someone needs a WDH type hitch on their tow vehicle, what they really need is a much bigger tow vehicle.Its physics.A trailer capable of driving a tow vehicle, is often coupled to a a WDH type hitch.It is what it is.
Mine+ others advice in these forums on avoiding dangerous sway, is especially for people who may be totally new to combination vehicles.Its a safety thing, which is the most important issue with any combination vehicle.

[SilverFire]

Carry chains in TV. Required occasionally crossing Siskiyous from Redding, CA to Ashland, OR. CalTrans or CHP will require you to chain up to cross pass if weather dictates snow and poor road conditions. ODOT & CalTrans Siskiyou road cams and weather reports important to follow. Be prepared, extra water food, blankets, sleeping bags, etc... This weekend it is supposed to snow in Portland. The entire NW to experience the coldest temperatures to date this weekend. February traditionally can be one of our colder months.

[Prettygood]

Originally Posted by B. Cole

Most of these probably new to towing people, arnt yanking their single axle trailer ( especially susceptible to dangerous sway conditions) with a F-350 One Ton Tow vehicle.Or a tow truck.Many don't know what trailer sway is, or what causes it.
Their smaller wheelbase and weight capacity SUV type tow vehicles, in many cases, are near / at/ over towing limits,simply by design.
Adding additional weight, while towing a single axle especially, could be very problematic.
A recent post on "Sway, before, during+ after" may prove informative, regarding extra weight behind axles of a trailer.Or a recent post about rear bumper trailer mounted bike racks.Again, which adds sway inducing weight behind axles.Etc etc etc.
While I'm at it, I'll make another statement about weight.If someone needs a WDH type hitch on their tow vehicle, what they really need is a much bigger tow vehicle.Its physics.A trailer capable of driving a tow vehicle, is often coupled to a a WDH type hitch.It is what it is.
Mine+ others advice in these forums on avoiding dangerous sway, is especially for people who may be totally new to combination vehicles.Its a safety thing, which is the most important issue with any combination vehicle.

This was on topic how?

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by RyeL

I figured we'd be fine. With this forum it's nice to get confirmation. Thanks to both of you for your comments.

Rye, are you still monitoring this thread? Good recent comments including the need to carry chains.

Do you have any interest in some local weather forecasts, for your trip through the mountain passes of northern CA and southern OR? Are you taking I-5, or maybe a more coastal route?

Have a great trip.

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by Prettygood

This was on topic how?

OOoohhh... a stinging worm!

If you read his comments you’ll see it follows a previous comment that introduces comments specifically identified as “off topic”... and ti relates to the winter camping conditions as the matter of towing with full-tanks comes into the discussion.

I have a single axle AS and tow with full fresh water tank but try to have grey/black tanks empty. The 22’ Sport fresh tank is forward of the axle where it contributes to stability and the grey/black tanks are aft of the axle where they would contribute to sway.
One of the hated tasks of traveling was finding a clean restroom for the ladies and it’s SO very comforting to be able to pull-over and use our own whenever the need arises. Same is true of lunch-stops, etc... Having all the conveniences 20’ behind us is THE reason we all bought trailers...right? So my fresh tank is full while towing.

I tow with a 1/2 ton crew-cab Ram 1500 with the smallest 4.7L V8 they put in ‘em (bought the truck before I thought she’d let me buy an AS so towing was not a consideration at the time of truck purchase)... I tow with a simple Ball-hitch and prefer that rather than WDH because I’m a proponent of allowing the TV/trailer combo to flex vertically.... and after a year I did add an anti-sway-bar (friction-type) ...and find it adds just the right-amount of damping in windy and down-hill mountain towing. This set-up is ideal, IMO, and I’m no nimrod when it comes to towing trailers of all kinds.

As for freezing-hazards:
All 3 of my tanks have 120 volt heating pads....(it was used by it’s first owner as an Alaskan field-office it’s first year of life)....but I’ve never needed to plug them in, and we’ve towed and camped in temps as low as 25F without difficulty. When not travelling it’s stored in a metal bldg in Central-Tx and this week we saw Zero-F nites and 19F days for several days straight and the bldg temps dropped to 30F... but still no problems. (Traditional wisdom is that unless temps drop below 28F for 12 hrs or more 5 gals of water held in tanks do not “hard freeze” and do not cause problems... this was my grandfathers advice with regard to his ‘28 A-model .... which he used to decide if he needed to drain the radiator. I was only 8 at the time so it became my axiom and has always worked for me.)

The earlier suggestion to add heating-tapes to the sewer lines / valves is a good one if you’re going to camp in minus-30F temps for very long, IMO.

Go camping. Be Safe. Watch your furnace vs battery as it pulls a lot if you’re not on shore-power or generator. (About 12 hours is all one good battery can handle without supplement charging.)

[B. Cole]

Originally Posted by Prettygood

This was on topic how?

Its on topic, because the Florida poster was saying that there is no need to drain the holding tanks, before towing a small trailer like the one the OP has.
They are particularly susceptible to trailer sway, especially when towed with small tow vehicles.Im addressing weight to rear of axle(s).
Thanks anyway!

[Florida239]

Originally Posted by Tim A.

Additional confirmation. In the years since we bought our 2002 19' new, we have spent Septembers in West Yellowstone where it often freezes at night. We do stay in an RV park with hookups and heat the trailer with the propane furnace which has a duct to the gray and black water tanks.

In the 19' trailers, the fresh water tank is below the streetside dinette bench and is quite well protected from freezing. Our trailer's water connection is exposed and it and the gray and black water valves have frozen often with overnight temperatures of about 25°, but there has been no permanent damage. As long as daytime temperatures are above freezing, the cold has given us no problems.

Tim

I am curious about how fast you go through propane when you are in West Yellowstone in September? I am campground hosting over at Madison Campground from Late July thru mid October this year. After reading your post I decided to take my 2001 Bambi instead of my larger 1976 land yacht. As campground host I will have full hookups so I won’t use my electric space heater when it is really cold so my propane heater can warm my tanks.

[Tim A.]

When it regularly freezes at night later in September, we go through about one 30 pound tank of propane in a week. As California weaklings, we keep things nice and warm in the trailer. Our favorite place to get propane is at the "Firehole Fillup" (the Phillips gas station) in West Yellowstone if you don't have a source as campground host.

We have Ultra-Heat pads installed on our black and gray water drains and valves and on the freshwater inlet (I believe you have the same inlet on your 2001) and use them when needed on cold mornings. Freezing days in addition to freezing nights can be more difficult to manage in our 19'.

Tim

[Florida239]

Thank you so much for the info. I will get a heat pad for the valves. I am getting ready to replace my tires. What tires have you been happy with? If y’all are around this August and are near Madison stop by. I will be at B40 arriving July 28.

[Tim A.]

We switched to Sendel 16" rims with Michelin Rib tires several years ago. The Ribs were very sturdy but pretty rough riding. At the advice of Vinnie of Vinnie's North Bay Airstream Repair, we now have Michelin Agilis load range E tires and they seem to shake the trailer much less.

We will be in West Yellowstone in September and may look you up!

Tim

[Steamy1]

Originally Posted by Tim A.

When it regularly freezes at night later in September, we go through about one 30 pound tank of propane in a week. As California weaklings, we keep things nice and warm in the trailer. Our favorite place to get propane is at the "Firehole Fillup" (the Phillips gas station) in West Yellowstone if you don't have a source as campground host.

We have Ultra-Heat pads installed on our black and gray water drains and valves and on the freshwater inlet (I believe you have the same inlet on your 2001) and use them when needed on cold mornings. Freezing days in addition to freezing nights can be more difficult to manage in our 19'.

Tim

Hi Tim,
would you have pictures of your heat pad installation on your valves and exposed pipes? Also, a comment on how you ran your wires and connection method?
Thanks Tim!
We met you and your wife a couple of years ago at the Grizzly RV park.