Interstate vs Roadtrek ???

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Kdselly

Because road trek and the Winnie redo the exhaust systems to go around tanks and then don't easily support fixes.

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

What? The Interstates have an exhaust pipe modified by Airstream to make a 90 bend so it exits on the RH side in front of rear tires.

Airstream places their under-body water and waste tanks in a different location than do Roadtrek and Winnebago. So the exhaust run from the engine to the 90° bend remains unchanged on an Airstream. I think that's what Kdselly meant.

Originally Posted by Kdselly

And that the gross weight of the road treks

The GVWR and GCWR are the same for all 170-inch wheelbase high-roof Sprinter 3500s . GVWR 11,030 pounds, GCWR 15,250 pounds. Doesn't matter who did the Class B conversion. Actual curb weight may vary from one Class B to the next, but not GVWR.

[wachuko]

Apologies for the hi-jack... I am in the same situation of trying to decide between an Airstream and a Roadtrek. Both new and both 4x4. New to the RV world and getting dizzy watching videos, reading specs, searching in forums for positive and negatives for each brand...

Going to take a look at both today...

Thank you for this thread, it has highlighted a couple of things to look out for.

[jbmtb]

I'm also looking between these two (and others, specifically doing a semi-custom conversion with Sportsmobile). I've recently looked at a lot of Airstreams and Roadtrek. Two major differences for me. 1) The overall feel and comfort of the Airstream is more appealing to me. ESPECIALLY the comfort of the seats and couches. No comparison. 2) The AS I've looked at only has floor-to-ceiling cabinetry on one side (where the bath is) which gives the unit a much more open feel compared to the RT which has them on both sides. Also one of the rear side-seats is essentially unusable due to the way they designed the overhanging cabinet in the RT.

Both nice units overall. I do like the lithium battery and solar options in the RT, but these could of course be added later to an AS.

[InterBlog]

Airstream modified the exhaust train in the T1Ns. We have the original production sheet from MB and it clearly states that our Sprinter was born with a straight-line exhaust, which Airstream later turned 90 degrees.

Someone recently contacted me via email after highway debris (a section of retread, not a rock) tore loose part of their Interstate exhaust line. The repair shop was having a devil of a time figuring out how to re-bracket it, and so the owner wanted photographs of mine for comparison. I sent them, but it turns out that their config was different from ours. So I guess Airstream's mods were not all identical.

[wachuko]

The other difference that we see is sleeping capacity. Only 2 in the Airstream vs 4 in the Roadtrek... Not sure how we could make the Airstream work for sleeping 4 if we take our kids with us (one in college and one in HS).

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by wachuko

The other difference that we see is sleeping capacity. Only 2 in the Airstream vs 4 in the Roadtrek... Not sure how we could make the Airstream work for sleeping 4 if we take our kids with us (one in college and one in HS).

The same way they do this in the Roadtrek: Use the front 4 seats as bases for 2 single beds, or turn them towards each other and use the seats as bases for a big double bed. In both cases all you need to provide is a folding platform to span the seats and air mattresses to make them comfy. The difference is RT makes a folding base/mattress specifically for their rigs and then advertises they sleep 4, where AS does not. But they are both the same Sprinter chassis with the seats in the same spots, so there's no difference. You may even be able to order the RT "beds" and use them with the AS, just be sure to order the correct ones, because the seats in the AS don't fold flat like the older RT seats, so you'd need to order the beds for the RT w/ non-folding seats. In my Interstate Lounge, I do this today with my daughter and she sleeps across the 2 front seats using the table top to span the gab between the seats with an air mattress on top. She loves it up there!

[BurntAsphalt]

Originally Posted by wachuko

Apologies for the hi-jack... I am in the same situation of trying to decide between an Airstream and a Roadtrek. Both new and both 4x4. New to the RV world and getting dizzy watching videos, reading specs, searching in forums for positive and negatives for each brand...

Going to take a look at both today...

Thank you for this thread, it has highlighted a couple of things to look out for.

If you do some test drives, be sure to ride in the back and find a road that has some bumps and expansion joints. You may want to think about getting air suspension instead of the 4x4. There is a thread on that subject on this forum.

[wachuko]

Well... at the end of the day we ended getting a 2018 Airstream Interstate 3500 Lounge EXT Tommy Bahama with 3,600 miles. They got me tired and confused so I did not make the best deal possible... oh well, but we are done... exterior color is silver.

All the TB accessories were brand new and still in their packaging...

139,900.00 +TTT (I know, I could have purchased a 0 miles unit for the same or less...)

I did get to see several new (2017) Roadtreks in different configurations....fit and finish was nowhere near of what I saw in the Airstream. Plus they lacked the sensors and camera that the AI has...

And yes, after seeing how the Roadtrek does the four sleeping accommodations, it was a no brainer on how to accomplish the same on the AI.

Also, found the AI hallway much narrower than the Roadtrek...due to the bathroom on the Roadtrek being narrower.

Some of the panels on the Roadtrek the vinyl covering was bubbling....some trim covers had fallen off. I wanted so much to like the ETrek we saw, but I could not get over all those details...

We went back to the Airstream dealer and found the TB unit with the ext color and layout we liked and bought it... no buyer remorse, only negotiation remorse....

[wachuko]

A few more comments... We went almost decided on getting the 4x4 with the two seat arrangement... But found the AI hallway so narrow because that one only had the two front seats and much more cabinetry in place.

Much better and larger fridge, but felt so narrow... more storage area, but we immediately decided that the floorplan with the four seat made us feel better.

Keep in mind we are newbies. We also realized that photos on the web are useless to get a feel for these. We went so much back and forth while we were there...Richard (Sales person) was extremely patient and accommodating... and so was Sheryl at the Roadtrek dealer. To decide on the floorplan... I kept checking this thread for comments, that is when I saw the comment on the way Roadtrek does it and I just went like "duh!!! We can do the same on the AI if we make, or buy, a similar setup!"...

What else? Yeah, hook ups and drains on the outside look better and are more accesible on the AI than the Roadtrek. I really liked the ETrek solar system... the AI is behind on this...

Shades...sorry, and I hope I don't jinx myself, but lowering and raising them all (or individually) with the touch of a button (or remote in the case of the TB edition) is soo much better!! Found having to move, window by window on the Roadtrek to be a pita.

Setting up the bed on the Roadtrek was less of a hassle. Only because you don't need to extend the back,lower, suppport out, and then lower side cushions like in the AI.

Lots of LED lights on the Roadtrek...but I could not find a swith to turn them all on or off at once... I was able to switch them on/off individually. Doing this in the AI was simple... I might blame that on not knowing these units well... but I liked the simplicity of the controller on the AI. I do worry on down the road and years of use, which one will hold better...

Oh, and loved how slim on the outside these (both) look in the flesh...

That is all for now. More tomorrow when I remember more, lol

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by wachuko

A few more comments... We went almost decided on getting the 4x4 with the two seat arrangement... But found the AI hallway so narrow because that one only had the two front seats and much more cabinetry in place.

Much better and larger fridge, but felt so narrow... more storage area, but we immediately decided that the floorplan with the four seat made us feel better.

Keep in mind we are newbies. We also realized that photos on the web are useless to get a feel for these. We went so much back and forth while we were there...Richard (Sales person) was extremely patient and accommodating... and so was Sheryl at the Roadtrek dealer. To decide on the floorplan... I kept checking this thread for comments, that is when I saw the comment on the way Roadtrek does it and I just went like "duh!!! We can do the same on the AI if we make, or buy, a similar setup!"...

What else? Yeah, hook ups and drains on the outside look better and are more accesible on the AI than the Roadtrek. I really liked the ETrek solar system... the AI is behind on this...

Shades...sorry, and I hope I don't jinx myself, but lowering and raising them all (or individually) with the touch of a button (or remote in the case of the TB edition) is soo much better!! Found having to move, window by window on the Roadtrek to be a pita.

Setting up the bed on the Roadtrek was less of a hassle. Only because you don't need to extend the back,lower, suppport out, and then lower side cushions like in the AI.

Lots of LED lights on the Roadtrek...but I could not find a swith to turn them all on or off at once... I was able to switch them on/off individually. Doing this in the AI was simple... I might blame that on not knowing these units well... but I liked the simplicity of the controller on the AI. I do worry on down the road and years of use, which one will hold better...

Oh, and loved how slim on the outside these (both) look in the flesh...

That is all for now. More tomorrow when I remember more, lol

First, congrats on the new AS TB!!! I'll admit, when I first saw the TB, I didn't like it, but the more I look at it, the more it's growing on me. It seems to be less "corporate jet" and more "fun in the sun"....

Re. the rear bed, I never extend the support. People may say I have a big head, but it's not so big that it needs to be held up with a steel metal frame! If you're going to lay the bed flat and SIT on the end with the rear doors open to watch a sunset or something, then yeah, you'll need the support pulled out, otherwise, just leave it alone.

On the shades, you may love the "ooooh....cool" feature of them going up and down with the press of a button, and it IS very nice to be able to raise and lower them with the remote, but the 5th or 6th time they get stuck, stop working, won't open, or worse yet won't close at night, you'll be wishing for good 'ole manual shades. The biggest plus with the way AS has the shades set up is when the night shade is down, it really hugs the window so it lets in very little light. If I ever tire of the shades not working (currently they're all behaving, but some have been naughty and needed a talking to ), I'll likely replace them with the manual version from the same company.

Last, RT and EcoTrek. Yep, gotta admit that is a nice package....when it works. I've been following the two primary RT Facebook groups and holy cow, the EcoTreks seem to have all sorts of problems. Batteries stop turning on, underhood "generator" won't charge the batteries, inverter quits working, you name it. I don't think Advanced RV has the same problems with their all-electric house, so I don't think it's the technology, it's how RT has implemented it that's the problem. Time will tell if they get it sorted out, but for now it seems to be a crap shoot whether you get a "good" one or a nightmare.....

[wachuko]

Well... in an even more bizarre turn of events... I went back to the dealer this morning and went with a new one instead...and included the Air Ride Suspension.

The dealer did not have to do this... there is no cool down/buyer's remorse period on these... they could have played hardball with all their legal right... but they worked with me and we changed the contract for a new unit with the Air Ride Rear Suspension...

So my price for this was 149,327.00 +TTT (vs the 139,900 for the '18 used unit with 3600 miles and no ARS)

I just kept reading on the benefits of the air ride, the fact that I was somewhat not at ease with getting a unit with 3600 miles for a price difference that was really not that much more from a new unit... to tell you that I did not sleep well last night is an understatement... So glad that the folks at TampaRV were willing to do this. Very appreciative of what they did.

Wife is happy because she gets the interior that she wanted (we could have save a few thousand dollars going with the normal interior)... I am happy because I got to order it with the Air Ride and we will be the first owners to put miles on it...

After all the paper work was done... took one for a test drive (same layout and with the air ride, but not the TB edition and yes, I know... should have done that yesterday!)... I was amazed at how easy it is to drive and how quickly it wraps around me in the sense that it does not feel like driving such a large vehicle. The width of it feels almost car like in the lane. The rear view mirror functionality of a clear display of the rear, and the added display of the lane you are turning into when you hit the turn signal is great! But even if the side mirrors are enough for this task, it is great to also have the cameras. Tested the lane departure alert, backing it into a parking space, etc. I can really see myself putting a lot of miles on this...

Since what I wanted was not on the lot, they had order it. They will try to modify and order to see if I can receive it sooner, if not, it will be a longer wait...

Well, that is it for me for now... now to continue to read on the threads from other owners on how they improve the solar/battery capacity of these units to extend the times needed between having to switch on the generator...

Thank you all for the great threads and contributions... lots to learn as we start this journey. Cheers!

Okay OP, back to normal programming...

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by GM Airstream

We did some research on them and found the roadtrek is a little better layout and has a bathroom you CAN use... but, some have reported that the roadtrek... made in canada is not as good in the warnt'e dept. The owner is not smiling towards the US... and getting service on the RV part is hard find in the states... ......

This will change. Let me explain.

Here's an odd confluence of events. Roadtrek posted a job opening for a senior Class B design engineer. It got mentioned on Class B Forum mostly in the context of humor because of the impossibility of all the skills that were being requested in a single employee (see purple squirrel definition).

Here's the heck of it, though: it came very close to describing LB_3, a mechanical engineer and project manager currently working in an analogous context, in fact, a far more demanding context (astronautics), who just happens to have spent the vast majority of his off-duty free time over the last 3 years re-designing key Class B systems, and who also knows motor vehicles inside out and backwards in more general senses due to his automobile restoration hobby that pre-dates our Interstate purchase.

You know the old saying. It never hurts to ask questions. We are happy with our life and jobs in Houston, but the future is not written in stone. It would be an interesting job, for sure.

So I started researching it a little bit, and among other things, found this news piece from a few weeks ago that describes Hymer's ongoing expansion. What they are doing right now in Canada is aimed squarely at the American market. What you say is perhaps true right at this moment - the owner is "not smiling towards the US"... but they cannot possibly go through this process without radically changing their American interface. That plus their aggressive intention to innovate in areas where Airstream is lagging... I'd put money on the Roadtrek / Hymer position of tomorrow bearing little resemblance to what it is in America today. Just something to keep in mind for the future.

That being the likely longer-term case, they've got a ways to go. Coincidentally, I started corresponding with the gentleman who runs the Class B Warned blogsite. He's starting to realize the deeper levels of the issues with Class Bs generally, within the context of his own. In other words it's not just a lemon vs. good build type of reality we're dealing with - the quality issues are not only industry-wide, but they are also producer-deep (e.g., both Roadtrek and Airstream are putting unworkably flimsy toilets that retail for about $110 into rigs that they are selling for $100,000 - $150,000 and even if they wanted to do better than that because it IS such an important fixture, the supply chain itself is not yet in place).

[wachuko]

Another difference that I forgot to add...AI has a vent with a fan, in the bathroom... could not find where the vent was in the Roadtrek

[wachuko]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

This will change. Let me explain. ...

...He's starting to realize the deeper levels of the issues with Class Bs generally, within the context of his own. In other words it's not just a lemon vs. good build type of reality we're dealing with - the quality issues are not only industry-wide, but they are also producer-deep (e.g., both Roadtrek and Airstream are putting unworkably flimsy toilets that retail for about $110 into rigs that they are selling for $100,000 - $150,000 and even if they wanted to do better than that because it IS such an important fixture, the supply chain itself is not yet in place).

This is depressing to read... I am spending all this on a new AI, driven by its size and ability to drive it easier around...and realizing now a lot of the shortcomings I will have to put up with. Things are always better in my dreams .

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by wachuko

This is depressing to read... I am spending all this on a new AI, driven by its size and ability to drive it easier around...and realizing now a lot of the shortcomings I will have to put up with. Things are always better in my dreams .

Anytime you try to squeeze 10 pounds (of anything) into a 5-pound bag, there will always be shortcomings. A B-van is a study in compromises. You could solve all of the shortcomings at the same time, but only if you could put a 45-foot Class A inside a 25-foor Class B van body.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Anytime you try to squeeze 10 pounds (of anything) into a 5-pound bag, there will always be shortcomings. A B-van is a study in compromises. You could solve all of the shortcomings at the same time, but only if you could put a 45-foot Class A inside a 25-foor Class B van body.

It's often a study in UNNECESSARY compromises. In part, it's an assemblage of OTHER PEOPLES' compromises that were presumed necessary because the starting conditions were misinterpreted.

The Roadtrek job posting eluded to the need for supply chain intervention. I suspect strongly that they recognize that (for instance) installing a $110 flimsy toilet in a $125,000 product is a bad, bad move. That decision is going to come back and bite them - the only question is how deeply are the teeth going to sink in? (See ClassBWarned for some hints - that's his front-running issue right now - repeated toilet failures).

From the point of view of a manufacturer like Thetford, they are still stuck in a 20th century presumption that the smaller the rig, the cheaper the rig. They probably figure that, if it only has enough space for a tiny Aqua Magic V, then it must be a crappy little $15,000 plywood box on wheels, and therefore they have to target their market offering to that echelon of consumer investment. Cheap is being manufactured for installation into cheap, they think.

Wrong, of course. But then the predicament for a manufacturer like Roadtrek is obvious: How do they leverage the market to get a better product in their supply chain without having every other builder also gaining access to that product, thus nullifying their advantage and the front-end effort they put into gaining that advantage?

Ideally, Roadtrek would like to be able to tell customers that Airstream is charging them $150,000 for a rig that contains a guaranteed-to-fail-eventually flimsy $110 toilet. And that Roadtrek can offer something better. We heard that kind of pitch repeatedly at the 2017 Houston RV Show, where the value of the build was being offered as an alternative to the bling of the Airstream Interstate. And that logic was resonating with customers, obviously.

But at the same time, it's debatable as to whether a manufacturer like Roadtrek itself could solve the quality problem by entering that manufacturing sector themselves, and realize economies of scale. So it's an interesting predicament.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

It's often a study in UNNECESSARY compromises. In part, it's an assemblage of OTHER PEOPLES' compromises that were presumed necessary because the starting conditions were misinterpreted.

I suspect strongly that they recognize that (for instance) installing a $110 flimsy toilet in a $125,000 product is a bad, bad move.

From the point of view of a manufacturer like Thetford, they are still stuck in a 20th century presumption that the smaller the rig, the cheaper the rig.

Not disagreeing with you. But it seems that the misinterpreted condition in this case was Thetford's, namely "There's no market for a high-end small toilet." Roadtrek, Airstream, and other B-van manufacturers don't have a lot of choice but to live with Thetford's assumption.

But once you get away from the issue of toilets, Airstream and Roadtrek are making a lot of their own mistaken assumptions. For example, Airstream's assumption of, "Everything in the van must be electric, from the window shades to the awning." And the equally fallacious, "B-van owners don't mind running their loud generators twice a day in order to boondock, so they don't need much battery or solar capacity."

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

.... Airstream and Roadtrek are making a lot of their own mistaken assumptions. For example, Airstream's assumption of, "Everything in the van must be electric, from the window shades to the awning." And the equally fallacious, "B-van owners don't mind running their loud generators twice a day in order to boondock, so they don't need much battery or solar capacity."

Agreed, and it's not just those two. Regency? Ugh, forget it. And as I noted during my 2017 Houston RV Show review, the only one that has a present-day product that interests me is Pleasure Way. But at this moment, my money's on Roadtrek for potentially pulling ahead of the pack in the future and really speaking to what a lot of people want as priorities. They've got the Eco-Trek, they've reportedly got at least a temporary headlock on the Kymeta market. If they could resolve their other issues such as inferior fit and finish, they might pull ahead.

[wachuko]

Fit and finish at the end kept me from buying the Roadtrek E-Trek that was at the local dealer. There was a 4 year old AI next to a new Roadtrek and I just could not believe how good the AI look in comparison... plus the Roadtrek did not have the sensors in the bumper and I did not like how the rear view mirror was when compared to the AI.

An AI with the E-Trek solar package would have been perfect

[FlyFishinRVr]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

But at this moment, my money's on Roadtrek for potentially pulling ahead of the pack in the future and really speaking to what a lot of people want as priorities. They've got the Eco-Trek, they've reportedly got at least a temporary headlock on the Kymeta market. If they could resolve their other issues such as inferior fit and finish, they might pull ahead.

+1

That “if” is what may kill them though. It seems even with the acquisition by Hymer their quality is getting worse, not better. I expected that German engineering to kick in and clean up their problems, but I guess it’s going to take some time.

I still think the top dog is Advanced RV. Uncompromising fit, finish, component selection and integration, and all the latest tech (that actually works). I just can’t get past their $100k cost over and above the RoadTrek. I know the ARV is good but daaaaang that’s a big number to justify....