What's your preference? Over capacity TV or under capacity?

[rmkrum]

My thinking is just a bit bigger/better than the max situation I would be in--like a bit more horsepower than I need to go up a hill at the speed limit, and some 10-15% excess weight towing and carrying capacity to allow some overhead in case DW wants to bring the anvil collection somewhere...or gets to needing a 2-foot longer trailer or the like.

Don't like to be banging right up against the limits of mechanical stuff, because over time, the limits deteriorate a bit due to wear and tear. Then you are on the "backside of the power curve" and heading for trouble. Why over-stress a system if you don't need to?.

It's marching along the fine line between just adequate, and massive overkill. Somewhere between those two is the sweet spot balancing operational imperatives and limited cash flow.

[tjdonahoe]

No such thing as too much money or too much horsepower....fact

[rmkrum]

I’m still looking for the wallet that gives me a $100 bill every time I stick my hand in it...

[Albireo]

Having been across Canada and down the west coast and currently still on the road (palm desert) I so pleased I sold my F150 gasser and bought an F250 diesel to pull my GT 27 (7600lbs loaded). I never used the F150 and went straight to the F250.

I have done a fair bit of towing. Boats, large ski doo trialers and horse trailers and such. It has only been fairly local and not in the mountians. I have noticed the boat behind me pushing me down the road as I broke with my F150. It surprised me at the time.

I started to look into towing and did a lot of research and spoke with friends with vast towing experience. One friend in California had towed his race car which weighed approximately the same as my trailer (once you add gas, tools and tires) for many years all over California and the country. He has owned a few F150s and a few F250s. He told me the F250 diesel will do half the work for you. As well they are completely different trucks. The F150 is not designed for towing and the F250 is.

Another friend told me you are a driver - get an diesel (this was when I was looking into class A's (he had owned a few). Anyway I listened to my friends and bought the F250 and can't tell you how happy I am towing with it. Sure I could have done it with the F150 at about maximum capacity but I am glad I didn't.

Safety is very important to me. I like to drive. I like to pass slow drivers in the mountains and I want the experience to be the best it possibly can.

Last but not least I do not understand all this talk of a hard ride. I love the ride of my truck. I love the feel of the road under the tires and I am sure the Airstream is just fine bouncing around behind (hopefully not too much).

I wouldn't change a thing. Half the capacity of my tow vehicle and it is just about right!! I have already had to slam on my brakes in B.C. as a large deer darted out in front of us. Just missed him by inches. That has not always been the case. The truck with the trailer handled it quite nicely.

Half the capacity to me is just about right.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by smithcreek

You don't think after an accident in their big truck anyone has ever thought "I wish I had a better handling vehicle"?

They more likely thought “I wish I hadn’t followed so close” or “shouldn’t have tried to tow that in the snow”. Maybe “I should’ve taken that curve above the posted speed”. If you’re towing something handling should be the last thing you worry about. What is all this swerving and evasive maneuvering about?

I didn’t buy my truck to take it to the track. As a first responder I’ve seen plenty of big pickups in the ditch, and plenty of fatalities in them. Haven’t thought to blame the truck yet, though. Have driven them all my adult life, and have yet to stop inches from another vehicle, haven’t hit a deer ever, never crashed “because I got cut off”, etc. I never understood how people crash on the freeway when they’re all going the same direction at the same speed.

I towed a trailer in Colorado in the 90s with a ‘66 Galaxie and never had an issue. But I’ll stick with my Dodge diesel for now. It’ll be parked for winter. Sure is tough to see it in the garage and take my SUV to work!

[bono]

What experience you have with other cars? Maybe this is the reason why you do not understand this? I owned only German cars. Before I started towing, I test drove F150 - I thought, man, how people car drive car which such soft suspension and towing does not improve the handling. Then I test drove F250 - I thought, man, how people can drive such harsh suspension. I can see why people prefer F250 for towing, because in general it gives more confidence even when not towing. However, IMO there are better car on the market with more sophisticated suspension systems.

Originally Posted by Albireo

(...)
Last but not least I do not understand all this talk of a hard ride. I love the ride of my truck. I love the feel of the road under the tires and I am sure the Airstream is just fine bouncing around behind (hopefully not too much).

(...)

[Albireo]

Originally Posted by bono

What experience you have with other cars? Maybe this is the reason why you do not understand this? I owned only German cars. Before I started towing, I test drove F150 - I thought, man, how people car drive car which such soft suspension and towing does not improve the handling. Then I test drove F250 - I thought, man, how people can drive such harsh suspension. I can see why people prefer F250 for towing, because in general it gives more confidence even when not towing. However, IMO there are better car on the market with more sophisticated suspension systems.

I have owned and driven many cars and motorcycles in my time. My two main motorcycles one is German and one is Austrian. I have owned 7 new BMW motorcycles from the RR to the K1600 and everything in between. A few years back I had an BMW 435. It was a fairy nice car. I do understand suspensions. When you log many, many thousands of miles on motorcycles on and off road you tend to learn about suspensions. In South Carolina BMW has Performance center where they teach off road motorcycle riding, the main instructor who set the course up told me it wouldn't take him long to square me away to teach the course. I have trained off road there twice and and on and off road at other places. Moreover, I have been riding since I was a kid. I probably know more about suspension than most.

I really am more of a motorcycle guy rather than a car guy although my first BMW car driving was in 2001 and since then I have owned a couple of performance cars. I actually prefer driving my truck over any car I have ever had. That may have to do with where I live and how I live my life. I am generally in the outback wherever I am.

What I mean is like like the feel of the road through the steering wheel of my F250. I like feeling of the changing surfaces and feeling the bumps in the road. You get great feed back from the road driving a new F250 though the steering wheel. The main thing is I like the feel and yes I have driven other vehicles even German ones.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by pt.reyesfan

Overcapacity. I am convinced it is safer and provides a lower stress experience.

I concur

[dnsapp]

As a rule you do not want to work you TV at more than 80 percent of its capacity. That being said you must do the calculations to determine what the capacity is. All vehicles are not created equal. My F150 is rated to pull more than some F250s. And it does. Another thing. I’ve seen people so stupid stuff with their hitch system and no matter what you have in a tow vehicle the hitch system make the whole thing under capacity. Things like hitched no a 9000 trailer and n a 5000 pound ball or a 6000 reciver.

[mikapen]

"Capacity," to me, means more than a sticker on a pillar. It means "capability to control what you are towing."

A half ton, with it's flexi chassis, WW1 suspension and sedan brakes, does not fit the "capability" definition. No matter how powerful the engine.
Either a 3/4T+ or (especially) a Euro SUV with real suspension and brakes, will control the trailer much more safely under varying conditions.

More to the point, though, is proper setup and loading. No amount of spring rate will overcome bad setup.

I have seen many 3/4T and 1 Ton trucks, proudly "towing" their rigs swiftly, with their front tires barely making contact with the road. They enter mild sway conditions at every corner, and are pretty scary to follow. "I don't need no stinkin' WDH or sway control" is the mantra. It also seems that those are the ones I see on their sides, having been blown over in Kansas. Or barely making the corner on downhill mountain switchbacks.

Since they accelerate quickly in passing zones to show off their "capability," (having slowed way down, holding up traffic just to keep between the lines in the twisties), I can't pass - so I just pull off and wait. I am tired of being "first on the scene."

P.S. I have been thrown off the road in a 26,000 lb. truck, by a 6,000 lb. trailer that was loaded tail-heavy. I had plenty of "capacity." Just not enough "sense."

[vintageracer]

Pulling a trailer is EASY.

It's STOPPING that Tow Vehicle AND Trailer that can be very DIFFICULT. Given that reality "I" demand the Tow Vehicle to be larger and more capable than the requirements of the trailer it is pulling.

Call me selfish however that tow vehicle must be larger than the the trailer's requirements most importantly for the safety of myself and for the safety of other motorists around me should $chitt hit the fan on the road!

Go BIG or Go Home!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by mikapen

I have seen many 3/4T and 1 Ton trucks, proudly "towing" their rigs swiftly, with their front tires barely making contact with the road. They enter mild sway conditions at every corner, and are pretty scary to follow. "I don't need no stinkin' WDH or sway control" is the mantra. It also seems that those are the ones I see on their sides, having been blown over in Kansas. Or barely making the corner on downhill mountain.

It would take probably 3000 lb on the tongue to lift the front wheels of my Dodge or the Ford that preceded it. Not likely with any airstream. I’d like to see a pic of a 1-ton with front tires barely in contact with the road.

[Tireman9]

Why do so many simply refuse to listen to the folks who probably know more about RV weight and safety than RVSEF


Watch this video if you want the facts and want to learn how to know about matching truck and trailer. Or simply depend on the RV salesman who was selling washing machines at Home Depot last month.

[Albireo]

Originally Posted by vintageracer

Pulling a trailer is EASY.

It's STOPPING that Tow Vehicle AND Trailer that can be very DIFFICULT. Given that reality "I" demand the Tow Vehicle to be larger and more capable than the requirements of the trailer it is pulling.
Go BIG or Go Home!

I couldn't agree more.

[Albireo]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Why do so many simply refuse to listen to the folks who probably know more about RV weight and safety than RVSEF


Watch this video if you want the facts and want to learn how to know about matching truck and trailer. Or simply depend on the RV salesman who was selling washing machines at Home Depot last month.

Great video. I have read a lot of our writings and I bought the Tire Tracker based on one of your articles. Thank you.

I went though this when I bought my truck. It seems people use up their payload prior to their towing capacity in many cases.

It is a good starting point and under capacity for me still makes the most sense for where I travel and how I drive. Just because the numbers say I can do it doesn't mean I want to do it. Numbers are a fight between marketing and engineering and it seems marketing wins some of the time.

As Vintage says stopping is critical and I won't rely on numbers to do that.

[bono]

Stopping important? Sure... Most, if not all, German SUV have better brakes than any truck on the market. I feel even safer

Marketing wins with engeneering? Hmmm, maybe that's why BMW X5 is downrated only for the US market from 7,700 lbs to 6,000?

[mikapen]

Originally Posted by Countryboy59

It would take probably 3000 lb on the tongue to lift the front wheels of my Dodge or the Ford that preceded it. Not likely with any airstream. I’d like to see a pic of a 1-ton with front tires barely in contact with the road.

A pic, maybe, but not in person with one on the road near you!
You're right about too much weight on the ball - standing still.
But on undulating roads or big dips at speed, bad loading can certainly bring air between the front tires and pavement. Too much load behind the rear axle is accentuated at speed. Dynamic loading can be a lot more than your number.
Unfortunately, it seems that I see an example almost every time I hit the road.

[CaptainChaos]

Tow Capacity, Tongue Weight Capacity, Axle(s) Weight Capacity (TV & Trailer),
Suspension Capacity, Tire Capacity, Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings, Combined Gross Vehicle Weight Rating and Hitch Weight Rating. I prefer to be a minimum of 20% over
on each when I'm fully loaded. Also prefer to be over powered on the engine to a
point where I can get up and go with a 3:55 or 3:73 Rear End. Be Safe,Responsible and Legal.

[Albireo]

[QUOTE=bono;2173467]Stopping important? Sure... Most, if not all, German SUV have better brakes than any truck on the market. I feel even safer

Marketing wins with engeneering? Hmmm, maybe that's why BMW X5 is downrated only for the US market from 7,700 lbs to 6,000?[/QU


I can't explain why BMW would do that. I know they regularly under report their horse power (at least in motorcycles) and other manufactures do not.

Engine brakes are fantastic. I do enjoy not touching my regular brakes on a mountain decline. I feel very safe as well.

I rented the X3 last time I was in the U.K. It didn't impress me and I am not trying to be funny. I don't remember the brakes being anything special.

[Cap-N-Red]

After so many years driving trucks and pulling trailers I always prefer having more truck than required by the load. Just an old truck drivers way of thinking I guess.
My signature shows a 2005 GMC , which i sold after putting 300,000+ miles on it. I now have an 2018 crew cab Denali w/ Duramax/Allison and love it. We covered 13,000 miles this summer with no problems.