VW Touareg diesel and 31 foot Airstream

[dkottum]

Thing is, do we really care about F250s when we come here to read about Touaregs and Airstreams. It keeps coming back, meaningless, boring, and disruptive. That's kind of the point.

[Ted S.]

I pull my Bambi with a F650 and Propride.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by mojo

As a past Touareg owner towing AS for 7 years, I found that these discussions are always interrupted by those who have never towed with said vehicle and/or trailer. Yet they feel compelled to add their opinions and information gleaned from numbers that they have found online. Real world experience means nothing to those who drive an armchair.

Right and we hear statements from "experienced" folks like "my stopping distance with a 7000# trailer is the same as the stopping distance solo with my Touareg" which makes you question the value of the "experience".

I am yet to hear a suspension engineer, a drivetrain engineer, a chassis engineer, or a steering engineer state it's ok to randomly pick and choose various tow rating. You only hear that from armchair experts.

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Thing is, do we really care about F250s when we come here to read about Touaregs and Airstreams. It keeps coming back, meaningless, boring, and disruptive. That's kind of the point.

Maybe it is because some of us researched this forum when we traded our 2012 2500HD for a ML350 Bluetec (same class as the other German SUVs) only to be greatly disappointed pulling our 25' and when moving up to the 30' went back to the 2500HD. But then my experience does not count as it is a new Airstream, New Truck, I have more money than Donald Trump and lie like Hillary Clinton.

It is sad that the facts are skewed by so many who just want to support their personal decisions instead of acknowledging that perhaps while it may work and meet your personal needs it still may not be the most appropriate and safest way to do it. This really reminds me of the circular unending defenses/arguments my children would make of the stupidest things. Once I got into such a prolonged argument with our firstborn son that my wife was in tears until I went into the bathroom and pulled the perfectly dry toothbrush out of the holder and then she was madder than I was. I knew he was lying but she could just not accept his innocent/honest pleas that he had brushed them. Once the dry tooth brush was presented without saying a word he just went to the kitchen pulled out a chair and drug it to the corner and did not move for more than 30 minutes.

Yes I just propagated it once more.... and it should be good for a few more.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by gator.bigfoot

Well said.

With 7 gears to choose from one will usually hold the speed. Even coming down Tioga pass I just left it in third. Hardly any breaking required.

You had to brake on that down hill? Really? There is only one corner rated at 40 mph on the entire grade! I usually complain about Cal Trans, but that road is gorgeous! Wouldn't it have been nice to go down in 4th or 5th and never touching the brakes? Just because someone with a truck proposes an idea, do you really need to poo ha ha it because of the source? Seems a little hypocritical of you to do so when you complain so loudly about others criticizing smaller tow vehicles. Just Sayin...

[Glenritas]

Bottom line : No matter what your TV is and what your towing , stay within the vehicle manufactures spec's .

[Knuff]

Originally Posted by Jaxon

Uhh... the brakes being discussed in your example are the retofit of the trailers brakes, not the truck brakes and the addition of a new brake controller...



And really, this is not a competition.

Oops, here you see how confusing the whole discussions is. Seems that was no cheapo conversion, and I honestly wonder why it is needed unless one does races or some other pushing the limits kind of things...


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

[Popcycle]

I've had two dealers in the last week, tell me that is I just installed a weight distribution hitch, I'd be good to go with my 2014'Cayenne Diesel and 25FB. Both also said I could even tow a 27 and had customers with even larger. They said "you done have to move the batteries or the spare tire or re indorse the hitch". They seemed very blasé that all that was needed was the right WD hitch.
So what does this forum think is the best WD hitch?

[mojo]

Originally Posted by rostam

Right and we hear statements from "experienced" folks like "my stopping distance with a 7000# trailer is the same as the stopping distance solo with my Touareg" which makes you question the value of the "experience".

Having "experienced" a loose brake controller connection on my 2007 V10 diesel Touareg that weighed in at 6975lbs with massive 4 wheel disc brakes, I was surprised at how well it was able to handle and stop a 7100lb trailer without trailer brakes. In fact I wasn't really aware that the trailer brakes were not working except for the Hensley "bump". Now I never did jump out with a tape measure...but I can assure you I was impressed by the vehicles capabilities. Better handling than my current F150 Ecoboost.

[Popcycle]

Also both dealers said the WD would "effectively cut the tongue weight in half"
At the risk of asking a stupid question(something I do often) with no spare, what happens if you have a flat?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Popcycle

Also both dealers said the WD would "effectively cut the tongue weight in half"
At the risk of asking a stupid question(something I do often) with no spare, what happens if you have a flat?

Moving or taking away the spare tire is among the methods possible to lighten hitch weight, giving the tow vehicle more load capacity and/or keeping your Airstream's hitch weight within Airstream's 1,000 lb limit.

Another benefit of the Airstream is that it has independent suspension, you can remove a flat tire with wheel on tandem axle Airstreams and drive on at reduced speed for a reasonable distance to get the flat tire fixed or replaced. The procedure is in your Airstream Owners Manual when you get an Airstream.

Spare tires have not always been provided with Airstreams, they were optional.

[xrvr]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

High performance VS Heavy Duty. Hummmmm.

Most heavy trucks have engine brakes. Figure that in.

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by Popcycle

I've had two dealers in the last week, tell me that is I just installed a weight distribution hitch, I'd be good to go with my 2014'Cayenne Diesel and 25FB. Both also said I could even tow a 27 and had customers with even larger. They said "you done have to move the batteries or the spare tire or re indorse the hitch". They seemed very blasé that all that was needed was the right WD hitch.
So what does this forum think is the best WD hitch?

The dealer is trying to sell you a very expensive vehicle without regard to safety or the fact that a Cayenne is not designed for a WD hitch. In fact it is expressly prohibited on it sister the Touareg. I would guess it is on the Cayenne as well but I never specifically looked for the towing restrictions as I personally could not justify the added expense over the Touareg. The tongue weight limit on both is under 600 pounds and reducing the tongue weight on a 25+ airstream to under 600 pounds would be reckless. I am surprise they did not suggest a fifth wheel with dolly.

[dkottum]

The maximum total weight of our 25' Airstream is limited to 7300 lbs fully loaded. In our Owners Manual Airstream recommends 10% to 12% tongue weight (730 lbs to 876 lbs), but never to exceed 1,000 lbs.

So our correct range of tongue weight is between 730 and 1,000 lbs even without weight distribution. That's the parameters we have to work within according to my Owners Manual Specs.. Few would ever tow a 25' Airstream without a weight distribution hitch including me, so we would work from there and probably consider reinforcing the hitch.

A thoughtful Airstreamer will research and evaluate their own needs, and how the tow vehicle they choose fits into their towing needs and lifestyle when not towing. For us a heavy duty truck will never happen, our Ram 1500 is decent, a properly set up Touareg-Cayenne-Q7 is worth researching, learning how hundreds are doing it successfully.

You would think an Airstream forum would be the place to learn about these vehicles towing Airstreams. Instead a few members will derail the conversation at every opportunity.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

Maybe it is because some of us researched this forum when we traded our 2012 2500HD for a ML350 Bluetec (same class as the other German SUVs) only to be greatly disappointed pulling our 25' and when moving up to the 30' went back to the 2500HD. But then my experience does not count as it is a new Airstream, New Truck, I have more money than Donald Trump and lie like Hillary Clinton.

It is sad that the facts are skewed by so many who just want to support their personal decisions instead of acknowledging that perhaps while it may work and meet your personal needs it still may not be the most appropriate and safest way to do it. This really reminds me of the circular unending defenses/arguments my children would make of the stupidest things. Once I got into such a prolonged argument with our firstborn son that my wife was in tears until I went into the bathroom and pulled the perfectly dry toothbrush out of the holder and then she was madder than I was. I knew he was lying but she could just not accept his innocent/honest pleas that he had brushed them. Once the dry tooth brush was presented without saying a word he just went to the kitchen pulled out a chair and drug it to the corner and did not move for more than 30 minutes.

Yes I just propagated it once more.... and it should be good for a few more.

LOL on the toothbrush anecdote.

How did you find the brakes on the Touareg performed after repeated use ... not necessarily panic stops, but normal braking as one might experience going downhill in congested traffic. Did they still offer the same performance as when you were not connected to your different Airstreams?

Please elaborate on the rationale for ditching the VW and returning to the HD. As you are one of few posters who have actually experienced both, we value your input - as we are contemplating the same move as you did ...going from the HD to the VW, it is what I have asked for numerous times from others - to no avail. Did you have any warranty considerations for the VW; or, did the VW have no issues? Did you circumvent the rear tongue weight restrictions ... how was the hitch area dealt with in terms of unibody modifications? Finally, please estimate the miles driven with the VW and AS combos.TIA.

[cameront120]

The derailments are regular and predictable, which is why I wish that the moderators would give the truck crowd a dedicated thread to argue amongst themselves about why the rest of us are so misguided. Then, prohibit any derailment of threads where people are sharing or asking for information about alternative tow vehicles. If the truck people really are so concerned, let them start their own thread. Stop ruining for the rest of us.

[Popcycle]

Originally Posted by Knuff

Oops, here you see how confusing the whole discussions is. Seems that was no cheapo conversion, and I honestly wonder why it is needed unless one does races or some other pushing the limits kind of things...


Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

Hi; as you have the same setup I'm shooting for, what kind of brake controller do you use. One dealer has said the Cayenne "works best with a wireless controller". Of course it's $700 bucks. Another said a conventional one at $150. Is all I need and it won't ever void the warranty. Am I over-thinking this? Did you reinforce your receiver and/or weld the ball in place? I think both are recommended by Canam for Cayenne as TV.
Appreciate your willingness to help a newby.

[dkottum]

"I traded in a 2012 Sierra Denali HD on a 2014 ML350 Bluetec. Drove from Denver to CanAm for the hitch reinforcement. I have always pulled with the most powerful SUVs and Trucks available for the last 20 years. For the life of me I do not know why other than bigger is better I guess, but we, my wife in particular, just got tired of the poor ride, hard to drive, hard to park, low mileage, doesn't fit in the garage big TVs when we only actually tow a tiny fraction of the time we use the vehicle. The ML does an amazing job pulling my 2012 25FB and there is no comparison to the overall enjoyment of driving the ML the other 98% of the time. I would never go back to an oversized TV again, especially not to pull an Airstream."

This is not my statement, it's from 2012FB on 5-11-2014 in another thread. Folks tend to support the tow vehicle they have . . . until they get something else.

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by mefly2

LOL on the toothbrush anecdote.

How did you find the brakes on the Touareg performed after repeated use ... not necessarily panic stops, but normal braking as one might experience going downhill in congested traffic. Did they still offer the same performance as when you were not connected to your different Airstreams?

Please elaborate on the rationale for ditching the VW and returning to the HD. As you are one of few posters who have actually experienced both, we value your input - as we are contemplating the same move as you did ...going from the HD to the VW, it is what I have asked for numerous times from others - to no avail. Did you have any warranty considerations for the VW; or, did the VW have no issues? Did you circumvent the rear tongue weight restrictions ... how was the hitch area dealt with in terms of unibody modifications? Finally, please estimate the miles driven with the VW and AS combos.TIA.

In brief we went from the 2015 GMC Sierra 2500HD (Diesel) to a 2014 ML350 Bluetec to improve the daily driver situation. After researching the forums here I decided to make the move. We drove all the diesel German SUVs, and the Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel. We chose the ML350. I drove up to CANAM in Ontario Canada to have the brake controller installed, receiver reinforced and existing Reese dual cam hitch reset.

What we found making routine round trips from Denver to the Phoenix area with the 2012 25' FB Twin is that on steep long grades the ML350 would load up pretty significantly and the engine temps will start rising. Cresting the peaks we would drop to 40MPH and the engine temp would be hovering around 105-110C and this is with the AC off, windows down and the Heat on Blowing Maximum. As everyone will point out this is within the limits but in my opinion it is indicative of an overloading condition for the whole drive train.

When traveling under gusting high winds the ML350 shows a great deal of "sway" that is to me where I am using both hands tightly gripping the steering wheel constantly adjusting to keep the ML350 going straight. It is not so much a back and forth motion but just where the wind bends the TV and trailer at the hitch bringing both out of angle. This in part is just due to the short wheel base and less weight on the wheels of the German SUVs.

Breaking is not as big a deal with the larger ML350 brakes but when in a turn or angle and heavy breaking is applied I could feel the ML350 load the suspension and start to push out a bit.

Going down steep grades the ML350 engine braking is fairly week and you do need to intermittently apply heavy brakes as you make your decent to keep the speed from running away. I never felt like the brakes themselves were an issue just that you need them a lot.

None of the above are issues with the 2500HD. Set the cruise up and down the hills effortlessly with one hand on the wheel. Overall driving, especially high winds which for us is almost always one leg or both, there is just no comparison.

Now when we moved to the new 2015 30' bunk all of the above was magnified by a factor of two. It scared me enough getting it home from Boise that I did immediatly move to a ProPride which help with the "sway" significantly over the Reese Dual Cam but still was not relaxing to drive by any stretch. The new issue with the Pro-Pride was the extra two hundred pounds on the hitch which is now way over the weight limits. It took a good bit of time dialing in the WD balance with 1400 pound spring bars.

Pulling the first steep grade on the way to Phoenix caused the engine to go into limp mode which to me is again indicative of a now severely over loaded drive train. Sure others have argued it is just bad luck but I don't believe so. It is the turbo getting hot enough to cause problems. Again the engine temps are now rising even quicker. One would assume everything else is as well.

Going back to the 2500HD was the only choice I felt we had if we wanted to keep the 30' Bunk. So now I have that dedicated TV that we originally did not want. I could have saved a small fortune by staying with the 2012 2500HD instead of being swayed to downsize with the smaller luxury SUV.

This is my personal decision based on family needs, family safety and not wanting to run the risk of damaging a $60k TV. To each his own. But if you look at all the manufactures specifications and not the hyperbole you can make your own informed decision.

For those who have not driven all three combinations as I have for more than a year with each please don't chime in with all the counterpoints that keep recycling. If you can.

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by dkottum

"I traded in a 2012 Sierra Denali HD on a 2014 ML350 Bluetec. Drove from Denver to CanAm for the hitch reinforcement. I have always pulled with the most powerful SUVs and Trucks available for the last 20 years. For the life of me I do not know why other than bigger is better I guess, but we, my wife in particular, just got tired of the poor ride, hard to drive, hard to park, low mileage, doesn't fit in the garage big TVs when we only actually tow a tiny fraction of the time we use the vehicle. The ML does an amazing job pulling my 2012 25FB and there is no comparison to the overall enjoyment of driving the ML the other 98% of the time. I would never go back to an oversized TV again, especially not to pull an Airstream."

This is not my statement, it's from 2012FB on 5-11-2014 in another thread. Folks tend to support the tow vehicle they have . . . until they get something else.

You are absolutely correct on all accounts. Figured I would just say how much of a mistake I made joining the "it is mine and the best" crowd and have paid the price. Please accept my full apologies and know that I am just tying to right the wrong and keep others from doing the same.