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Old 09-05-2015, 06:55 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by rostam View Post
Right, I forgot the fairy dust sprinkles
That's rich. Remind us all what experience towing air streams you actually have.
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Old 09-05-2015, 07:55 PM   #282
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Some questions earlier about the diesel SUV's handling downgrades. The Cayenne diesel with 27FB in tow (about 13,000lbs) will hold 65 mph in 5th on 5% downgrades. When I see the warning sign for steep downgrade, "Truckers use low gear" etc, I'll slow down if necessary then change down a few gears gradually to maintain the desired speed. No need for brakes. No drama. There is a significant amount of aero drag on the AS at this speed so the rig still stays "in tension" (I use a ProPride) even with some braking from the TV.

Engine brake required? With this combination, I'm not sure what I'd use it for, except to annoy the locals. On the other hand, if I was towing a 20000 lb trailer with a 1 ton, I'm sure I'd be glad of one, but I'm not.
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Old 09-05-2015, 08:26 PM   #283
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Ohiobrits, thanks for the info from experience. Probably my biggest concern about these vehicles is holding speed on the downgrades, and I feel much better about it.

We're nearing the point of reducing from three cars to two. One is a Suzuki Samarai which is our little chore runnabout. The Touareg-Cayenne-Q7 would be our tow vehicle 20% of use, and family car 80% of use.

We truly appreciate all the help getting there.
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Old 09-05-2015, 09:21 PM   #284
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My experience with the 3l Jeep diesel is the same as Ohiobrits. I actually can't recall using the brakes on the grades in Virginia and West Virginia. The 8 speed seems to have lots of choices for maintaining a reasonable and safe downhill speed with plenty of braking power, mostly not dropping lower than 6. About 14000 lbs GCW. My old Jeep with the Mercedes 3l Diesel was about the same, except higher rpm in a lower gear. No fuss with either of them. My guess is that the other Diesel SUVs are better. Jim


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Old 09-05-2015, 10:17 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiobrits View Post
Some questions earlier about the diesel SUV's handling downgrades. The Cayenne diesel with 27FB in tow (about 13,000lbs) will hold 65 mph in 5th on 5% downgrades. When I see the warning sign for steep downgrade, "Truckers use low gear" etc, I'll slow down if necessary then change down a few gears gradually to maintain the desired speed. No need for brakes. No drama. There is a significant amount of aero drag on the AS at this speed so the rig still stays "in tension" (I use a ProPride) even with some braking from the TV.

Engine brake required? With this combination, I'm not sure what I'd use it for, except to annoy the locals. On the other hand, if I was towing a 20000 lb trailer with a 1 ton, I'm sure I'd be glad of one, but I'm not.
If you have never used one you don't know what your missing. I didn't till I fixed mine. Thanks for the great info.
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Old 09-05-2015, 10:36 PM   #286
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BMW X5M has different (more powerful brakes) and needs less distance to stop. I think PC Turbo has also better braking performance than "standard" PC. The point is that German SUVs have better brakes than trucks, but despite the numbers the "only truck can tow" crowd does not accept this...

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The standard brakes are the same unless you go carbon on the Porsche. I don't understand the whole discussion.
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Old 09-06-2015, 09:12 AM   #287
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We still have the never lube hearings after the Kodiak calipers were installed. We installed the Titan Brake Rite II SD because of it's modular design. The electronics are a separate module from the pump. Not mentioned by the vendor at the time of purchase was that model is incompatible with ALL factory installed brake control systems.

We installed the Tuson DirecLink NE brake controller which plugs into the truck's ADP port. The system monitors all the truck's sensors to modulate the brakes. We did a simple bypass of the truck's built in brake controller so no truck computer error codes are thrown.

I would not have installed the Titan pump if I had found the Tuson system first. Their brake controller and pump when interconnected are capable of showing additional pump safety parameters on the cab display.

I will retrofit the Tuson ABS brake controller probably next year. It will still fit inside the front battery box. We will have to run four brake lines, one to each wheel, to support the ABS. One can order their basic pump which is upgradable to ABS, but the calipers and rotors have to ordered with the ABS sensor rings.
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Old 09-06-2015, 10:12 AM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
We still have the never lube hearings after the Kodiak calipers were installed. We installed the Titan Brake Rite II SD because of it's modular design. The electronics are a separate module from the pump. Not mentioned by the vendor at the time of purchase was that model is incompatible with ALL factory installed brake control systems.

We installed the Tuson DirecLink NE brake controller which plugs into the truck's ADP port. The system monitors all the truck's sensors to modulate the brakes. We did a simple bypass of the truck's built in brake controller so no truck computer error codes are thrown.

I would not have installed the Titan pump if I had found the Tuson system first. Their brake controller and pump when interconnected are capable of showing additional pump safety parameters on the cab display.

I will retrofit the Tuson ABS brake controller probably next year. It will still fit inside the front battery box. We will have to run four brake lines, one to each wheel, to support the ABS. One can order their basic pump which is upgradable to ABS, but the calipers and rotors have to ordered with the ABS sensor rings.
Switz - What was the total cost of the conversion including parts and labor? Also what kind of time was need to complete this work?
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Old 09-07-2015, 09:47 AM   #289
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The estimate on the bill was around 12 hours of labor and about $2,500 in parts which included the Titan Brake Rite II SD pump system, the two sets of 12" Kodiak Dacromet Finish rotors with stainless steel calipers plus 3/16" brake line and all the fittings.
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:21 AM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
We still have the never lube hearings after the Kodiak calipers were installed. We installed the Titan Brake Rite II SD because of it's modular design. The electronics are a separate module from the pump. Not mentioned by the vendor at the time of purchase was that model is incompatible with ALL factory installed brake control systems.
It is somehow telling that the truck crowd hijacks this SUV discussion and talks gibberish. I at least thought that the trucks came with brakes that could handle an AS, but obviously not...
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:31 AM   #291
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Pretty sure the "truck crowd" as you put it is actually more concerned about safe towing no matter what kind of vehicle you prefer.
The brake conversations made me curious because at least for the high end SUVs 4 wheel anti lock disc brakes are standard. On many pickups 4 wheel anti lock disc brakes are optional even though they may be tow rated.
The advantage of 4 wheel anti lock disc brakes is a shorter stopping distance, not that standard drum brakes WON'T stop the vehicle or handle the loads it is rated for.
But perhaps I'm confused.
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:31 AM   #292
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This discussion is not about trucks vs SUVs/minivans/sedans. It's also not about body on frame vs unibody vehicles. It's about adhering or ignoring manufacture ratings. It's very simple unless you want to make it complicated.
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Old 09-07-2015, 10:40 AM   #293
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It is somehow telling that the truck crowd hijacks this SUV discussion and talks gibberish. I at least thought that the trucks came with brakes that could handle an AS, but obviously not...
Uhh... the brakes being discussed in your example are the retofit of the trailers brakes, not the truck brakes and the addition of a new brake controller...

And really, this is not a competition.
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Old 09-07-2015, 11:22 AM   #294
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Quote:
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This discussion is not about trucks vs SUVs/minivans/sedans. It's also not about body on frame vs unibody vehicles. It's about adhering or ignoring manufacture ratings. It's very simple unless you want to make it complicated.
Here's a reminder about what the discussion is about from the very first post by the OP:

"Almost 12000 km whit my new VW Touareg Diesel and my 30 feet Airstream. It is a dream to tow."

Maybe once you've got an Airstream and actual, you know, towing experience you might understand how nicely these trailers tow even without a truck.
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Old 09-07-2015, 11:40 AM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
The estimate on the bill was around 12 hours of labor and about $2,500 in parts which included the Titan Brake Rite II SD pump system, the two sets of 12" Kodiak Dacromet Finish rotors with stainless steel calipers plus 3/16" brake line and all the fittings.
Thanks for that information Switz. I was thinking the cost was going to be closer to 6-7k and not around 4k for parts, labor and tax. Does that cost include the Direct Link controller? I guess that I didn't ask the question correctly, but how long was your trailer down for the install (we full time so...)?
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Old 09-07-2015, 11:54 AM   #296
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Actually,
I'm thinking this thread and increasingly, this whole site is about brand new Airstreams, brand new, super duty, diesel TVs that are equipped with the best weight and sway control hitches and equipped with the highest order of brake controllers, TPMS, back-up cams and every other add on, gew gaw and doo dad that can be purchased when price is no object whatsoever.
And if you are someone who can't afford all that stuff or understands that no amount of isolation and insulation from risk will let you live forever and is willing to fudge things a little, or get out on the road with a TV that deviates from the new Standard you will be argued with, patronized, sometimes sympathized with but generally treated as a heretic.
I do wonder sometimes how we as a society became so hyper adverse to risk.
Especially when I see the cover of my original 1975 Overlander manual and notice the TV is a big GM wagon without all the dew dads.
Kudos to those who worked hard all their lives and have rewarded themselves with a nice rig for camping.
May you have many years and many miles of trouble free enjoyment of the fruits of your labor.
But please remember that not everyone has arrived yet or their standards aren't as high or they aren't quite so adverse to risk. And they may not appreciate your too often repeated advice and ahh, shall we say, solicitude when it comes how they get themselves out on the road for a weekend of camping.
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Old 09-07-2015, 04:33 PM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiobrits View Post
Some questions earlier about the diesel SUV's handling downgrades. The Cayenne diesel with 27FB in tow (about 13,000lbs) will hold 65 mph in 5th on 5% downgrades. When I see the warning sign for steep downgrade, "Truckers use low gear" etc, I'll slow down if necessary then change down a few gears gradually to maintain the desired speed. No need for brakes. No drama. There is a significant amount of aero drag on the AS at this speed so the rig still stays "in tension" (I use a ProPride) even with some braking from the TV.

Engine brake required? With this combination, I'm not sure what I'd use it for, except to annoy the locals. On the other hand, if I was towing a 20000 lb trailer with a 1 ton, I'm sure I'd be glad of one, but I'm not.
Well said.

With 7 gears to choose from one will usually hold the speed. Even coming down Tioga pass I just left it in third. Hardly any breaking required.
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Old 09-07-2015, 04:34 PM   #298
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VW Touareg diesel and 31 foot Airstream

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Originally Posted by nrgtrakr View Post
Touareg weighs ~5,000#, 70-0mph 177 feet
An F250 weighs - 8,500#, 70-0mph 221 feet
Stopping distance shorter, agreed.
Better brakes, do the math.

I have yet to see the braking distance of these two when both hooked to a 6000-7500lb trailer along with gear and passengers.I think you might be surprised....


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Old 09-07-2015, 05:20 PM   #299
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Absolutely!
Which is kind of the point. There have never been any formal studies ... to include tracking accident data.
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Old 09-07-2015, 05:36 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameront120 View Post
Here's a reminder about what the discussion is about from the very first post by the OP:

"Almost 12000 km whit my new VW Touareg Diesel and my 30 feet Airstream. It is a dream to tow."

Maybe once you've got an Airstream and actual, you know, towing experience you might understand how nicely these trailers tow even without a truck.
As a past Touareg owner towing AS for 7 years, I found that these discussions are always interrupted by those who have never towed with said vehicle and/or trailer. Yet they feel compelled to add their opinions and information gleaned from numbers that they have found online. Real world experience means nothing to those who drive an armchair.
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