VW Touareg diesel and 31 foot Airstream

[Road Ruler]

Trivia ...
Touareg 60-0 mph 122 feet
BMW X5 60-0 mph needs 117 feet
Porsche Cayenne 60-0 mph needs 116 feet

F250 60-0 mph 148 feet

High performance VS Heavy Duty. Hummmmm.

[nrgtrakr]

Even more trivia, compare the stopping distance of a standard equipped pickup with rear drum drum brakes to one with 4 wheel disc anti lock.
The SUVs do it right from the beginning. On trucks it's optional.

[Tuco]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Tuco, I think the braking question, not having an exhaust brake or good compression braking, is the only thing between us and a Touareg-type tow vehicle. My experience towing our Airstreams tells me the brakes are more than adequate, and Airstream disc brakes would ensure excellent braking in all conditions. I have wondered what others experienced.

We have a light pickup and it's a decent tow vehicle. But it's an extra vehicle around home, we don't need it. There is zero chance we will ever buy a heavy duty pickup, so their qualities are of no interest. I am grateful to those who can keep the Touareg/Airstream threads on Touaregs and Airstreams.

There is another current thread on these vehicles concerning load capacities, and how it can work. Some creative ideas to keep everything within load limits. Any further discussion on loads as they relate to these vehicles will be welcome?

This looks like a good place to start for an exhaust brake for the Touareg.

D-Celerator Price and Application

They have several sizes from 2 1/2" up to 4" and can be placed after the "Y" in the exhaust system. I get the impression that these kits are universal in nature so it should be easy to adapt to the Touareg (and other small diesel applications). I have no idea how the on board computers will handle this, but the only way to find out would be to install it and see. Maybe this manufacturer would be willing to help with post diagnostics. Thoughts?

[2012FB]

Originally Posted by Tuco

This looks like a good place to start for an exhaust brake for the Touareg.

D-Celerator Price and Application

They have several sizes from 2 1/2" up to 4" and can be placed after the "Y" in the exhaust system. I get the impression that these kits are universal in nature so it should be easy to adapt to the Touareg (and other small diesel applications). I have no idea how the on board computers will handle this, but the only way to find out would be to install it and see. Maybe this manufacturer would be willing to help with post diagnostics. Toughts?

Adding significant back pressure to a small turbo diesel that is not designed for it might cause some real issues. As someone else pointed out when you top the peak, slow down to 35 and keep it in third gear like the big rigs are required to do on most passes. Keep it under 55 on the highways and leave yourself a lot of room. Keep backing off when people race around to cut you off after all there is no real hurry.

I would submit that if you need to modify it to handle a given load it is too much load. Especially when we are not talking trucks but a luxury SUV.

[rostam]

IMO, its one thing to modify (a much simpler) domestic pickup, and completely another thing to modify a luxury German SUV. These light duty diesels are very complex, and also very expensive to maintain and repair. I'd very careful not to do something to void the warranty.

[dkottum]

We've owned two TDI Jettas over the last fifteen years and never had a single repair on either. The 2006 still looks and runs like new.

[dkottum]

TUCO, good information to consider. Thanks. My sense from our experience towing our Airstreams all over the country, and reports from these vehicle owners, is that the Touareg-Cayenne-Q7 brakes are substantial. The question for me is whether a disc brake conversion to our Airstream is a sound investment in additional safety.

Switz, when you converted to disc brakes did you retain the Nev-R-Lube bearings on your Airstream?

[Glenritas]

Originally Posted by Road Ruler

High performance VS Heavy Duty. Hummmmm.

BTW the SUV's mentioned weigh 2-3,000 # less then the Pickup.

Gee,I wonder what the stopping distances would be when you add an 8,000# 9000# 10,000 # trailer behind each TV and what effect a long 6% downgrade would have on the rigs stopping distance ?

Also what effect on the TV brakes if the trailer brakes failed ?

BTW rear disc brakes have been standard on most pickups for about the last 10 years.

Tires are what connect your brakes to the road. That will have a great effect on stopping distances . Now If all the above TV's had the same tires it may have an effect on stopping distance.

[dkottum]

Glen', fair question. What do you think the result would be? My sense is there is still 2,000 to 3,000 extra pounds to stop with the larger vehicle; the results would be similar to the vehicles without trailers attached.

Anyone actually tried or seen this comparison? As I recall Can-Am Airstream did a similar test with a Chrysler/Dodge sedan and Heavy Duty Dodge pickup a few years ago, the sedan did better.

[Gearheart]

Trailer brakes take care of stopping the trailer. That's what they're for.

[switz]

When are working, the trailer brakes are supposed to stop the trailer. If suddenly they are not working is when the cheese binds.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by Gearheart

Trailer brakes take care of stopping the trailer. That's what they're for.

Lets say a Touareg, solo, can stop from 60 in 120 ft. I would like to see a Touareg towing a 7700# trailer stop from 60 in 120 ft. I can assure you it will not.

[nrgtrakr]

Random scan of PUs and SUVs in this mountain community where we live reveals that only the higher end of any given model is likely to have 4 wheel disc brakes, pretty hit and miss.
I know on our 99 F250 diesel as well our 04 Cherokee, all wheel disc anti lock was part of a package upgrade.
In the Jeep and Ford forums there is talk about brake upgrades. The Touareg Cayenne forums also?

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Tuco

This looks like a good place to start for an exhaust brake for the Touareg.

D-Celerator Price and Application

They have several sizes from 2 1/2" up to 4" and can be placed after the "Y" in the exhaust system. I get the impression that these kits are universal in nature so it should be easy to adapt to the Touareg (and other small diesel applications). I have no idea how the on board computers will handle this, but the only way to find out would be to install it and see. Maybe this manufacturer would be willing to help with post diagnostics. Thoughts?

I don't know how the computer would react either, but I would be more concerned about the exhaust valves, and the turbocharger. Too much back pressure when the exhaust brake activates can cause catastrophic engine failure, depending on the maximum pressure reached. Each engine manufacturer has a different limit based on their engine design. I would be surprised if VW published such a number. It would be expensive to determine it by trial and error. The second issue would be the turbo, and how it would handle that. Again, expensive to determine by trial and error. The computer is the third item, considering these are drive by wire systems, with integrated transmission controls.

I think adding reinforcement to the hitch is straightforward. I wouldn't modify the exhaust to create backpressure, myself. Too many variables. Better to plan your descent speed.

Jeff

[jcl]

Originally Posted by nrgtrakr

In the Jeep and Ford forums there is talk about brake upgrades. The Touareg Cayenne forums also?

Most of the Euro SUVs come in various performance versions, albeit not all are available in North America. The standard V6 diesel is the lowest power configuration, and thus likely has the smallest brakes. In the BMW version, there are multiple diesels available with more power than our 35d version (40d, 50d) and also versions with large V8s, then the M version. All of those vehicles use the same platform, so larger brakes are often available from the manufacturer. That is even before you get to the aftermarket, with Brembo kits, etc.

Jeff

[gator.bigfoot]

Originally Posted by 2012FB

I too certainly LOVED towing with the ML350 who would not. It is plush, quiet, comfortable and when not coupled to the trailer is about as good as it gets for a daily driver, but it is not designed to do so, nor in my humble experience the safest vehicle to tow a 25' plus trailer with.

I'm surprised you are having issues with your ML towing. I've towed all over and am on steep grades on a regular basis and have none of the issues your are describing. Also, MB knows what I tow and and are supportive of it. They are the ones who suggested I buy it for towing in the first place, based on many other customers who tow with them. They had no issues with warranty in regard to the hitch modifications either.

As for the braking, I have never felt that the braking is an issue. Even coming down the mountain passes. I put the car in a lower gear and let it roll. If the speed gets too high I brake and do that over again until I hit the bottom. Brakes have never gotten too hot and stopping has never been an issue even in panic braking.

I try to drive in a manner that doesn't require me to use excessive braking. I replace my brakes every 100k and replace the tranny and brake fluid every other year. Fuel economy varies from 16.4 to 21 l/100. I try to slow down going up hill so that I don't affect the fuel economy too much. I will typically drop from 110 to 95 km/hr or even 90 on some of the steeper hills so that the fuel economy will not be affected and that the engine doesn't have to work too hard. The vehicle is perfectly capable of going up it with the cruise on at 110, but what is the point if fuel economy goes down the toilet? I'm in no rush. I will still pass the transports on the steeper grades, so I know I'm not the slowest guy on the hill.

This is my 4th diesel. All the others have been VW in the past and I still own a 2000 that is approaching 500k. The engine still fires up at the turn of the key and it still drives great (looks are another thing). I have used it to tow for years in the past breaking every rule on towing including the weight.

There have been a lot of references to towing in Europe. Weight distribution and electric brakes are outlawed in all of Europe. Towing speeds are restricted to 95km/hr similar to the rules in California. Most of the trailers are much lighter as well due to no tanks or much smaller tanks. The construction is also much lighter than what we are used to. AS only makes the body and floor for the European trailers. The outfitting, wiring and chassis is all done there.

[dkottum]

Seeing these vehicles come with factory trailer hitch, electronic trailer sway control, over 7000 lbs tow rating, 400 ft lbs of torque at low rpm, 8 speed transmissions, excellent brakes, very stable suspensions, relatively low center of gravity, and the early ones marketed with an ad showing one towing a 747, I've set aside the notion these vehicles are not designed to tow.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by rostam

Lets say a Touareg, solo, can stop from 60 in 120 ft. I would like to see a Touareg towing a 7700# trailer stop from 60 in 120 ft. I can assure you it will not.

Balderdash

[Knuff]

Originally Posted by jcl

The standard V6 diesel is the lowest power configuration, and thus likely has the smallest brakes.
Jeff

The standard brakes are the same unless you go carbon on the Porsche. I don't understand the whole discussion.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by mojo

Balderdash

Right, I forgot the fairy dust sprinkles