Up and down

[GiaPK]

We took delivery of our new Classic 30RBT yesterday and pulled her about 30 miles to our first camping experience. While towing on the interstate, is it normal for minor hobby horsing to occur? The road surface was up and down and I never felt like the front tires were losing their grip. I’m using a load equalizer hitch with anti sway bars. TV is 21 Dodge 2500 with Cummins diesel. When attaching the trailer, I took before and after measurements on the wheel well to the ground and the drop was only one inch. Have not had a chance to get to scales yet. Thanks for your help.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by GiaPK

We took delivery of our new Classic 30RBT yesterday and pulled her about 30 miles to our first camping experience. While towing on the interstate, is it normal for minor hobby horsing to occur? The road surface was up and down and I never felt like the front tires were losing their grip. I’m using a load equalizer hitch with anti sway bars. TV is 21 Dodge 2500 with Cummins diesel. When attaching the trailer, I took before and after measurements on the wheel well to the ground and the drop was only one inch. Have not had a chance to get to scales yet. Thanks for your help.

No you should not feel like you're on a hobbyhorse. You most likely are going to have to return more weight to the front axle.

The scales will tell you a lot. It's also important that the airstream and tow vehicle are level with weight distribution set properly.
Are you familiar with using the scales?

You weigh the truck fully loaded for camping.
Hitch-up and weigh without any weight distribution.
Adjust the weight distribution weigh again.
It may take a few runs until you return the TV front axle bact to it's unhitched weight.
Once you get the routine down and get familiar with the rig you'll probably be able to adjust properly without even passing through the scales.

Stream Safe...

Bob
🇺🇸

[Shiny16]

What do you mean by “the drop was only one inch”? The TV rear wheels/front/ with or without weight distribution?

[GiaPK]

The drop was measured without the wd hitch hooked up. That was just with the AS connected to the ball.

[dznf0g]

This is very much a subjective thing. None of us were there to define what "hobby horsing" is. I do believe many folks interpret a few oscillations as "porpoising", or "hobby horsing", as you state. Porpoising should never be confused with proper flexibility....(refer to front end separation).

If you have zero "rebound", I believe you have too much WD. If you have more than 1) compression, 2) rebound 3) a little compression and 4) a small rebound, I believe you have too little WD.

It's pretty much like the old shock absorber test from yesteryear, when you jounced the vehicle corner, then released it to observe absorption.

[panamerican]

A number of years ago, I was moving the Airstream 3-4 miles and I got lazy and didn't connect my wd bars....just dead weight on the ball.

I was amazed how even a bar as small as 600lbs was able to stop what you are describing. Bars back in, no more hobbyhorse...my guess is your bars are not tuned it, or worse yet, you are overhitched with 1200lb bars that aren't gonna do much with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck.

[turonueve]

Originally Posted by GiaPK

We took delivery of our new Classic 30RBT yesterday and pulled her about 30 miles to our first camping experience. While towing on the interstate, is it normal for minor hobby horsing to occur? The road surface was up and down and I never felt like the front tires were losing their grip. I’m using a load equalizer hitch with anti sway bars. TV is 21 Dodge 2500 with Cummins diesel. When attaching the trailer, I took before and after measurements on the wheel well to the ground and the drop was only one inch. Have not had a chance to get to scales yet. Thanks for your help.

Hi GiaPK,

We also have the 30 classic RBT and the ‘21 Cummins diesel along with the blue Ox WD hitch.

When we picked the trailer up and drove 100miles home the first day, it did feel a little odd. Maybe “hobby horse” like. I think it is because of the full water tank from the dealer and the fact that we were not used to towing. Now that we’ve done it a few times, it is not so bad.

Keep in mind that even though the 2500 will tow 20k, the payload is only ~2200 lbs and the empty tongue weight of the trailer is ~880. That only leaves 1320 for passengers, gear, water, etc.

We’ve since lifted the TV and installed aftermarket Timbren stabilizers. We pack lightly, drive carefully, and everything still works fine.

Good luck.
Arthur

[Hans627]

Sometimes it is the road that causes the "hobby horse" effect. Especially if it is a concrete highway with joints at regularly spaced intervals that is in bad condition. It'd try driving on different surfaces at different speeds before making any major changes.

But, as was mentioned, getting the weights at a CAT Scale is very important.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Hans627

Sometimes it is the road that causes the "hobby horse" effect. Especially if it is a concrete highway with joints at regularly spaced intervals that is in bad condition. It'd try driving on different surfaces at different speeds before making any major changes.

But, as was mentioned, getting the weights at a CAT Scale is very important.

(of course get weights at a scale an adjust accordingly!)

It is always the road that induces any vertical motion to the rig. The question, is...is it the road which causes a rather pronounced, repetitive vertical oscillation at a given speed, with a given TV wheelbase and/or rear axle-to-trailer axle dimension...often increasing in amplitude? That is porpoising.

No amount of WD will eliminate it, but WD adjustment can reduce the amplitude of the motion. Only changing the road surface (not possible), changing the dimensions of axles on your rig (not possible), or changing speed will reduce it to a tolerable point until the road surface changes somewhere down the road.

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by GiaPK

We took delivery of our new Classic 30RBT yesterday and pulled her about 30 miles to our first camping experience. While towing on the interstate, is it normal for minor hobby horsing to occur? The road surface was up and down and I never felt like the front tires were losing their grip. I’m using a load equalizer hitch with anti sway bars. TV is 21 Dodge 2500 with Cummins diesel. When attaching the trailer, I took before and after measurements on the wheel well to the ground and the drop was only one inch. Have not had a chance to get to scales yet. Thanks for your help.

IMO skip the scales and simply weigh your tongue and make sure its proportional to the weight you have overall.

A 2500 is pretty beefy frame, so it should be a pretty good ride, but even a 2500 can be over loaded with a 30 foot trailer if the trailer is loaded improperly.

I've seen a 1000 2500s going down the road with its front tires lifted off the ground by over loaded campers.

Since I have no idea what hobbyhorsing is I cant give much opinion. However the whole combination is designed to 'move' when motoring down the road. They don't always move together if the road is bad.

[ROBERT CROSS]

SNIP>>>

Originally Posted by JJTX

IMO skip the scales and simply weigh your tongue and make sure its proportional to the weight you have overall. A.

NO...you should NOT skip the scales.
They provide the baseline for proper set-up and accurate weight distribution. You can set up using measurements, we did, but the CAT's proved we were at least 25% off with the set-up. BSTS.
Once done and after you can 'read' how your rig is driving you will be able to set up without scaling.
I do it only when our normal load has changed dramatically.

Bob
🇺🇸

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

SNIP>>>

NO...you should NOT skip the scales.
They provide the baseline for proper set-up and accurate weight distribution. You can set up using measurements, we did, but the CAT's proved we were at least 25% off with the set-up. BSTS.
Once done and after you can 'read' how your rig is driving you will be able to set up without scaling.
I do it only when our normal load has changed dramatically.

Bob
����

We dont agree is all. Tongue weight is base-line. The rest is relative to the load.

If your tongue weight is proportional and you measure the changes in wheel well height changes when hooked and unhooked, the rest does not matter unless you are STARTING over loaded and your front-end is pointing up .

If your suspension returns to the normal height after hookup and loading, not much else matters unless you are prone to carrying too much junk with you, which is a possibility for some. Someone who sold their house and is living in their vehicle, probably should find a scale. Weekend campers? No. Providing you didn't START overloaded.

" a baseline " is what the raw tongue weight is. If that is wonky, your total weight is not relevant, you have to drop weight off the combination regardless of what your total weight is. If your hitch weight is decent, the rest does not matter if the suspension is riding normally for most users.

Scales, are way above any baseline and should be done LAST if at all, to determine where a problem may be if there is one and your suspension is loaded excessively somewhere.

The odds you are going to over-load front -AND- rear wheel weight ratings with proper ride height otherwise, is mostly zero providing you arent pulling a 30 foot 10K trailer with an F150, if you ARE, you are already over-weight and should have and F250.\


The OP should check tongue weight first, and go from there.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

To the OP:

All of the magic tongue weight / this to the front numbers are simply a starting point. They do not guarantee the best ride or the best handling. You very much can adjust things a bit and find a noticeable improvement. You also can go a bit to far, that's what the CAT scales are for.

Your 30' Classic is a *very* different trailer than a 19' FC. A 2500 is in no way "overkill" or "super beefy" for the (likely) 1,300 pound tongue weight of your loaded trailer. Adjustments can and do matter.

What to do?

You usually have pretty limited adjustment options. Just what they are depends a *lot* on the hitch you have. One chain link more / one less or one washer more / one less are pretty common. Moving the hitch up or down one set of holes on the shank is a long ways. There probably will be some compromise involved.

Most of us find that a Classic is more stable on the road with a full water tank. I suspect that's why the dealer sent you out with it full. It also gives you a supply of water if you get to an un-anticipated stop along your route. ( it does happen .....)

Fun !!!

Bob

[Fungus]

Originally Posted by JJTX

We dont agree is all. Tongue weight is base-line. The rest is relative to the load.

If your tongue weight is proportional.

Just curious…

By “proportional”, what do you mean. I’m looking for a stable tow with 10 to 12 percent of trailer weight on the tongue. Is there a way to measure actual trailer weight without a trip to the scale?

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Just curious…



By “proportional”, what do you mean. I’m looking for a stable tow with 10 to 12 percent of trailer weight on the tongue. Is there a way to measure actual trailer weight without a trip to the scale?

Nope, not unless you own a set of race car scales. It all STARTS with a trip to the scales.

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Just curious…

By “proportional”, what do you mean. I’m looking for a stable tow with 10 to 12 percent of trailer weight on the tongue. Is there a way to measure actual trailer weight without a trip to the scale?

My point is, its likely not entirely relevant considering the overall package.

If you think you need to scale your trailer, you already know you have too much junk in there. Go for it.

My tongue weight on my 19, loaded up was 500 last time we loaded up for two weeks. That means the rest is just fine and it's not much of a concern. At the same time, we are careful about loading, dont bring junk we don't need and theres no need to scale it. I know what I put in there, and Its not over-loaded.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Just curious…

By “proportional”, what do you mean. I’m looking for a stable tow with 10 to 12 percent of trailer weight on the tongue. Is there a way to measure actual trailer weight without a trip to the scale?

Hi

There are a lot of ways you can get to 10% tongue weight. If you have a lot of weight well past the rear axle on the trailer, it's not going to be super duper stable, even with 10% tongue weight. The *assumption* most make is that weight is uniformly loaded over the length of the trailer and equally distributed left to right. That's rarely the case in a real trailer. Weight high is worse (much worse) for stability than weight low. Again something that just looking at tongue weight will never show you .....

Put a small trailer behind a big truck and no, you aren't going to see many issues. You can get away with a lot. If the trailer outweighs the tow vehicle ... hmmm .... that's different.

Lots of twists and turns. You may well be at 20% tongue weight on some rigs when they finally calm down .....

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by JJTX

We dont agree is all. Tongue weight is base-line. The rest is relative to the load.

If your tongue weight is proportional and you measure the changes in wheel well height changes when hooked and unhooked, the rest does not matter unless you are STARTING over loaded and your front-end is pointing up .

If your suspension returns to the normal height after hookup and loading, not much else matters unless you are prone to carrying too much junk with you, which is a possibility for some. Someone who sold their house and is living in their vehicle, probably should find a scale. Weekend campers? No. Providing you didn't START overloaded.

" a baseline " is what the raw tongue weight is. If that is wonky, your total weight is not relevant, you have to drop weight off the combination regardless of what your total weight is. If your hitch weight is decent, the rest does not matter if the suspension is riding normally for most users.

Scales, are way above any baseline and should be done LAST if at all, to determine where a problem may be if there is one and your suspension is loaded excessively somewhere.

The odds you are going to over-load front -AND- rear wheel weight ratings with proper ride height otherwise, is mostly zero providing you arent pulling a 30 foot 10K trailer with an F150, if you ARE, you are already over-weight and should have and F250.\


The OP should check tongue weight first, and go from there.

Sorry I'm so rong 😂...'baseline' infers average, tongue weight is NOT an average it can change quite a bit with load and is BEST done UN-HITCHED.

Bob
🇺🇸

[JJTX]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Sorry I'm so rong 😂...'baseline' infers average, tongue weight is NOT an average it can change quite a bit with load and is BEST done UN-HITCHED.

Bob
🇺🇸

As usual, You are certainly welcome to do whatever you want to do.

[Saluda372]

Congrats and good luck with the fix.