TV - back to the drawing board...

[mickeyme]

We have a 30 fbb Flying Cloud on order, delivery now slated for January. A few months ago, we placed an order on our TV - 2022 Ram 3500 megacab. Yay!

Until yesterday, when the salesman let me know that not only weren't they going to offer some of the safety equipment we'd ordered due to part shortages, they were delaying delivery until "February... maybe?"

So now we are back to square one. We're thinking it might be smarter to pick up a used late model truck now (yes, I know the prices are insane, but I need a truck) rather than wait until who knows when with potentially more deletions from our build. We have a few months to shop, so at least there's that.

Knowing that I'm going down a rabbit hole with a can of worms, I'd like some input on TVs that might fit our criteria:

Must be able to tow a 30 fbb flying cloud
Must seat six

Ideally has sufficient payload and towing capacity so we aren't playing numbers games every trip out
Ideally has a fairly comfortable back seat - comfortable kids are quiet kids

Open to gas or diesel - pros and cons to both - we live in Ohio and don't anticipate going to Colorado etc any time soon, but we do need to go through West Virginia easily

This won't be a daily driver, but will be used for longer trips and getting through the snow to school in the winter, etc.

I know this is a fairly open question, but if you needed to get a tv for a 30fbb flying cloud and a family of six, what would you pick? Thanks!

[JJTX]

Your camping season is almost over now. Whats wrong with January?

[Dennis C]

I'm more of a GMC guy, but there are new and used trucks available on the lots in Denver. I agree that it's not the best time to buy a vehicle, but they're out there if you want one.

[Mollysdad]

Must seat six.
Have you considered a passenger van? 3/4 ton?
Or the Ford Expedition Max?
However, besides towing, there's payload and with 6 that gets eaten up quickly.

Was the Ram 3500 going to seat six comfortably? If yes, then the Ford F-250 should work fine.

I'd go online to "Auto Trader" and look for a "certified used" in a f-250 or 350.

Here's a sample.
Power tow mirrors!
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

I couldn't read the payload from the door sticker.

[jondrew55]

If you're carrying 6, I'd stick with a 1 ton pickup. I recently got a RAM 2500 diesel off the lot. I wanted a Laramie trim package so pickings were slim, but I really like the truck I ended up with. A 3500 gasser would be ideal payload wise. I think it would tow a classic just fine. I'll bet even with the parts shortage you can find a truck you like locally if you keep looking. But if you're real particular on the configuration you may just have to wait.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Seats six? .... ummm ..... errrr .... two parents and four very small children? or two small and two fairly large kids.?

I very much would not want to try four fairly large folks and two small ones in the typical pickup truck for any length of time. Yes you can get a bench front / bench back configuration in a lot of trucks. They do have 6 seatbelts. None of the "other guys" has anything like the Megacab.

With the (assumed) payload of passengers plus the tongue weight of the trailer plus the likely "stuff" in the back of the truck to support 6 people ... wow. I think you will struggle to find a 250 / 2500 that will give you enough payload. You are indeed shopping for a 350 / 3500.

We had our 350 pushed out by two months vs the original date. The Bronco Sport .... who knows what decade it will arrive in. At best it will be 8 months past the originally posted ship date. Welcome to the modern world !!!

Bob

[Dennis C]

I think a Chevrolet Express 3500 Passenger van sounds like a great option for this type of application. It would comfortably seat 6 people, it has plenty of room for gear, it has a payload rating as high as 3,540 lbs. and a tow rating of up to 9,900 lbs. Fully loaded, it's under $50K brand new.

[InvertdEagle]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

I think a Chevrolet Express 3500 Passenger van sounds like a great option for this type of application. It would comfortably seat 6 people, it has plenty of room for gear, it has a payload rating as high as 3,540 lbs. and a tow rating of up to 9,900 lbs. Fully loaded, it's under $50K brand new.

Actually the Chevy/GMC 3500 Series van seats up to 12 depending upon how you configure it. It would be by far your cheapest option that could do the job if you must have new. The ones out there are in the low $40's. Not fancy trim packages, but just add the hitch and you should be good to go.

[Dennis C]

Originally Posted by InvertdEagle

Actually the Chevy/GMC 3500 Series van seats up to 12 depending upon how you configure it. It would be by far your cheapest option that could do the job if you must have new. The ones out there are in the low $40's. Not fancy trim packages, but just add the hitch and you should be good to go.

Nice. I suppose if you wanted to go the other way and consider the full luxury van route you could get an Explorer custom van conversion or something similar. I’ve been in a few of those rigs and they’re very nice. I think they are in the same price range as loaded 1-ton pickups. But offer lots of room for the family!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

The "best answer" ( out of a number of answers, all of which are less than perfect ....) is to mount the sticker where it can be "seen" by the camera over the normal arc of backing up. The jack is also a problem .....

Bob

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Hi

The "best answer" ( out of a number of answers, all of which are less than perfect ....) is to mount the sticker where it can be "seen" by the camera over the normal arc of backing up. The jack is also a problem .....

Bob

Hi

(sorry for that post, I have absolutely no idea how it got tagged in on this thread ....).

I would be a bit careful with vans. The payload numbers in the bold print often are for a "stripped" interior ( = no seats). Once you get reasonably comfortable seating and other nice stuff (roof liner, side panels ...) the payload comes down.

Not to say you can't do this or that, only that there is a bunch of math between you and your destination.

Bob

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by Dennis C

Nice. I suppose if you wanted to go the other way and consider the full luxury van route you could get an Explorer custom van conversion or something similar. I’ve been in a few of those rigs and they’re very nice. I think they are in the same price range as loaded 1-ton pickups. But offer lots of room for the family!

Only issue with the custom van's are the fact that towing capacity is less than the passenger vans due to the speciality interiors. I have a 3/4 ton(2500) GMC Passenger Savana van that I ordered back in 2003. It tows my heavy 30' 2004 Classic Slide Out. My van is rated for 9,900 lbs,

The GM vans are really a bargain price wise and the 3/4 ton vans come with 3 bench seats behind the two front seats. I deleted that third seat at order time and received a $140 credit which allows a generous storage area in the rear of the van. So my passenger capacity is 8 adults. I also ordered dual heater and air conditioning. That interior area is large and dual heat and air provides extra outlets and controls that can cool or heat that large area up quickly. At order time I opted for the 6 liter gas engine and 4.10 rear axle. My van is actually has a higher towing weight capacity than the equivalent 3500 (1 ton) GM van in 2003. Payload numbers are stated separately for the window and the panel vans and my capacities were clearly stated. Current model vans have lots of improvements that give you that high towing capacity without having to go with a 4.10 axle. Love the inside covered storage also. All the GM vans, Chevy or GMC are built in Wentzville Mo plant which is just outside St. Louis.

Jack

[mickeyme]

Thanks! The van idea is actually pretty intriguing. We typically will only have 5 of us, because our oldest is at college, but having room to spread out the rest of the crew is compelling. And maybe even putting in a dog crate in the back....

GMC Vans seem pretty impossible to come by right now. But there is a dealer not *that* far away with some Chevy Express 3500s that might do the job. It looks like 9600 lbs towing and payload over 3000 lbs. That might actually work. I've shied away from vans to this point because I couldn't find ones with the towing/payload capacity I wanted. But these might actually work - the numbers are a lot better than any of the SUVs on the market that can comfortably seat our clan, and the layout is a lot more tenable than even the huge trucks we've been looking at.

Speaking of SUV's - has anybody looked at the new Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer? I was super excited last night when I saw they are out and they have 10,000 lbs towing capacity! Sweet! But then I checked payload (as y'all on these forums have taught me to do!), and it's 1500 lbs, max. Now, if you do the math on that, if you figure a tongue weight of 1000 lbs, you basically can put a couple of people and a bag or two in the vehicle and you are DONE. Why would they do that? That seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

If anybody has any tips and tricks on vans for towing, I'd love to hear them. Thanks!

[richard5933]

Might help to expand the distance to the dealers you're considering. I traveled from Wisconsin to North Carolina to get our Suburban last spring. With everything online nowadays, it's as easy to deal with a dealer across the country as with one in the next county.

[cegardner]

We had a truck failure in June in Lake of The Ozarks. No repair parts available let alone no dealer would even look at the truck. 350 F King Ranch. We bit the bullet and searched for a new truck. We found the only 350 in 6 states and it was a King Ranch and had just arrived. We bought it site unseen. We were able to get our putputting ford to that dealer, got a great trade in value but no negotiation on the price. We scored. It is tough time to get trucks. BTW finding a used truck?
When we stopped to have an oil change in Colorado Springs, we were offered more for the truck than we paid. If you find a truck, buy it. Pickings are slim

[RWitherspoon]

I done't have time to full time, use mine for short trips, so I lease a truck when I want a big diesel to do a lot of montains, other wise I use my 1500.
4X4 is not optional, I live on Vancouver Island, you will get stuck on gravel on a hill if you are 2X4, and 2X4 has zero resale here.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by mickeyme

Thanks! The van idea is actually pretty intriguing. We typically will only have 5 of us, because our oldest is at college, but having room to spread out the rest of the crew is compelling. And maybe even putting in a dog crate in the back....

GMC Vans seem pretty impossible to come by right now. But there is a dealer not *that* far away with some Chevy Express 3500s that might do the job. It looks like 9600 lbs towing and payload over 3000 lbs. That might actually work. I've shied away from vans to this point because I couldn't find ones with the towing/payload capacity I wanted. But these might actually work - the numbers are a lot better than any of the SUVs on the market that can comfortably seat our clan, and the layout is a lot more tenable than even the huge trucks we've been looking at.

Speaking of SUV's - has anybody looked at the new Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer? I was super excited last night when I saw they are out and they have 10,000 lbs towing capacity! Sweet! But then I checked payload (as y'all on these forums have taught me to do!), and it's 1500 lbs, max. Now, if you do the math on that, if you figure a tongue weight of 1000 lbs, you basically can put a couple of people and a bag or two in the vehicle and you are DONE. Why would they do that? That seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

If anybody has any tips and tricks on vans for towing, I'd love to hear them. Thanks!

I haven't heard a lot of good on the Jeep branded vehicles. Consumer Reports notes a lot of problems over the years since Fiat bought Chrysler and I personally know folks with Jeeps that have had issues with them. I'd shy away.

Vans stand taller and really handle the Airstreams great. That 3500 series empty ride is rough and the 2500 truly feels better when not towing. I'm not current on today's versions of the 3500 and 2500 Passenger Vans but look closely on towing capacities to see if the 3500 is lower. You will need a weight distributing hitch and I'm towing with a 14,000 lb rated Class V Hidden Hitch receiver and an Equal-i-zer brand hitch with 1,400 lb tow bars. My hitch weight on my Classic slide out exceeds 1,280 lbs. I had to upgrade the original hitch platform on my GMC van back in 2004 because the OEM receiver at the time was rated for 1,000 lbs hitch weight when used with weight distribution.

Stay away from the extended van series of GM vans. You don't need something that big. I noted earlier you can delete (if you order) that third rear seat. That saves some weight and gives you some nice space in the rear. Dual air and heat should be ordered. At order time I specified that both the drivers and front passenger seat be the 6 way power adjustable seat. This gives a lot more comfort to your front seat passenger. At the time I had a choice of a slide open door or a two door option to access the the seats behind the front seats. I took the two door option. I felt it was much easier to open and close than that big sliding door. Back in 2003 I had the option to also put doors on each side of the van for rear seat access. I like that since I can get out of the drivers door and open the doors to access the rear seat. Likewise my front seat passenger has the same door behind them.

All GM vans have a black plastic panel that is above the back doors and above the tail lights. It's called the halo and its there for people with roof racks carrying ladders (note my picture of the rear of the van). It keeps the paint from being scratched as the ladders are pulled off the roof racks that some contractors carry. You can get a Painted halo instead of that black panel. The panel will be painted with the same color as the rest of the van. Makes a much better look to the van. Again I had an engine choice and axle choice. GM did not have a diesel option for the vans in 2003 so the 4.10 axle and 6 liter gas engine gave me the biggest capacity towing capacity of any GM van for that year.

The GM and Chevy vans were built at the same assembly plant on the same line. I couldn't find any difference mechanically between the Chevy and GM 3/4 ton passenger van so I went with the best deal that I could negotiate at order time. The dealer selling GMC had the best deal.

Build time was 2 weeks, and at the time customer orders had priority over dealer orders for unsold vans. True to the timing my van came in 2 weeks after I placed the order with the dealer.

My dealer gave me a referral to a custom shop that install a step to ease entry into the van on either side. You will see that mine are painted fiberglass and look like they are part of the van, and stretch from the wheel wells. The 2500 van does stand taller than the 1500 vans. If you are going to garage your van, verify it's height to make sure it will clear the garage door opening. I had to remove a small piece of trim on my garage door surround to verify clearance. The dealer let me borrow an unsold cargo van prior to ordering the van to verify clearance. I'm not sure the height of a 3500 van. Here are pictures of my van on delivery and after I had the step placed each side and the window sticker.

I also ordered the towing package and with the 6 liter gas engine, GM provides a heavy duty transmission with transmission oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator. That package came with the wiring installed (not the outlet) for the trailer, a larger alternator, and the hitch platform (which at the time could not handle the hitch weight of my Classic).

I also included a picture of the van and trailer that isn't quite a year old

Let me know if you have other questions.

Jack

[richard5933]

That van looks even handier than our Suburban. Didn't catch if they are available with 4-wheel drive though.

[Foiled Again]

Nissan NV 3500. 11 passengers plus driver. Remove rear 4 seats... I need a wingman to help me pull them out 2 at a time.
The passenger version stopped production in 2020, so if you want one it will have to be used or a leftover. And they are all gassers with 2 wheel drive. I can carry chains, mats for slippery grass situations, and a gas engine allows for more people and/or "stuff" in the van.

[jcanavera]

Originally Posted by richard5933

That van looks even handier than our Suburban. Didn't catch if they are available with 4-wheel drive though.

They are but you lose towing capacity. If I remember correctly at that time, it dropped the capacity to either about 9,400-9,600 lbs. At the time I had no idea the size of my future Airstream so I opted to not to go with 4 wheel drive. I don't drive this van in the snow and I've had no issues camping where I wished I had had 4 wheel drive. In retrospect with my Classic coming in at 9,100 lbs with a full freshwater tank, I'm glad to have the 9,900 lb towing capacity.

Jack