'62 Overlander... new girl on the block

[65CV]

Originally Posted by KCN

Glad SOMEBODY thinks my progress is ok. I get a lot of grief from various angles for being slow.... Amazing how many people think I'm going to give up on this.
...

Kathy

Kathy,

This is the place to come if you need encouragement! All of us will get more done once the weather improves -- except for our friends down South who probably hibernate in the 100 degree heat. We continue to have a miserable spring in New England.

I agree wholeheartedly about the pumps for West Systems Epoxy. I bought them after messing up the mix on a boat repair. What a job cleaning up! Now that they are all set up, I use it a lot. BTW, I am sure someone here can suggest a better use for shot glasses!

Harbor Freight's shears are OK, not great. Mine died after -- I'm guessing -- about 50 feet of cutting. I think it was Frank that has a really funny picture of the shears or the HF polisher intentionally set on fire.

Keep up the good work!

John

[Wabbiteer]

On the shears - open up the package and inspect a few of them as it may save a return trip to whatever store is lucky enough to get your business. There should be no/low side-to-side slop in the blades and they should be mirror images left-to-right to each other, as should the under heel of the unit. When you get the shears you might spend a little time with a fine file and 400-grit sandpaper easing away the sharp edges and corners that can gouge aluminum sheet, and layout cuts on the reverse sides plus over masking tape to reduce the scratching...

Or just go have fun

[utee94]

I believe it was Frank's HF compounder that ended up in the trash can fire.

My HF shears have done pretty well so far, in fact this weekend I'll be using them to do some metalwork on some leftover aluminum I have, that will become an art installation in my 3-yo son's bedroom. The theme is "Vintage Industrial Superhero." So far, he loves it!

[KCN]

Ok, thanks for feedback/advice I ended up with some Milwaukee shears..those ARE fun! Funny thing happened on the way to get the shears... I found a nearly-new Malco portable brake for $75 on Craigslist..

Thoughts on phenolic sheeting between the rear/front hold-down plates and the skins? I see Frank made that suggestion on another thread - just cut a .032 sheet to fit both sides, and tack-glue it on I would guess? Any place to buy it in small pieces vs full sheets? Like aluminum I see there many composites/thicknesses from which to choose.

Kathy

[KCN]

Haven't spent any time learning how to caption pictures yet, but you are all smart and will figure it out.

Picture of old front (cleaned those up since this picture, and am re-using them) and brand-new rear corner channels. Also some of my new an old straight channel.

Picture of the threshhold/step cover I made with my new brake. Still need to put the truck-bed coating on the bottom of it - that stuff is, hands-down, the nastiest stuff I've ever used. Prep with Alumaprep first, then apply that. I did one flat one before I decided I needed to incorporate the threshhold. Then the floor can finally go on.

Lining up stuff to make sure it's all gonna be tight and straight and all that stuff that airstream didn't spend much time doing. At least on mine!

Picture of my tanks and my new wells. Shiny is good, right? I plan on leaving the center belly open until after I put the shell back on.

Heading to NM for the Vintage Trailer Academy this week so I'm sure I won't get much more done until I get back - but at least by then I will know how to rivet!!!!

[utee94]

Really, REALLY nice.

I often wish I could have done a complete shell-off and made everything beautiful and tidy and new as you are.

But then I realize that I'd probably still have the shell off, sitting around somewhere, and would have missed out on the past 4 years of camping.

Maybe on the next one!

[KCN]

Got the frame back under the trailer, working on refitting the shell - but I've decided to do the axles now, rather than later. The axles on THIS 62 were welded on, not bolted on, and with all that cutting etc.. and new mounting plates made, I've decided to do them while access is easier. The possibility that this was a test or prototype trailer (it is a Cali baby) has been raised as it seems to have a lot of oddities.

Another possible oddity: my wheels have 5 lugs and I've been told 6 is more common? Regardless, I can't budge any of them so I'm going to get a torque wrench today and see if I can get them to move. Yay, more tools..!

[Wabbiteer]

get a torque wrench today

I hope its just a nomenclature thing, since its corrosion welding them in you can damage the torque wrench. That is a tool made for calibrated tightening, a finishing flourish to the mechanics' snugging down fasteners to a predetermined loading.

A 24" or 32" socket 'Breaker bar' loaded up w/ tension and tapped with a small hand sledge is a great persuader (takes some coordination) or a extra sturdy lug wrench with a 4-foot helper pipe slipped over the end, or a 1/2" quality-brand pneumatic air wrench that will hammer it off in tiny steps using 130PSI air pressure.

[KCN]

Wabbiteer -

It was sort of a nomenclature thing but mostly just ignorance..however, I did go to my buddies at the tire shop right after I wrote that to show them the picture of my wheel and they told me it was an air wrench I needed and also that the lugs were probably 3/4 but the paint was probably making them larger as well. And that the lug pattern was was a 5 on 5 or maybe a 5 on 5 1/2 or possibly a 5 on something else... So I printed your response and now I'll have something to work with. Thanks for your help - I have no ego left after a year working on this, but I do know more than I did before, so that's a plus.

Kathy

[Aerowood]

I have not forgotten about your body frame repairs. I think it would be better if I brought my tooling up there and fitted the repairs right on the trailer. I cannot shoot rivets yet so If you haven't learned how to shoot and buck rivets yet you will be an expert soon.

[KCN]

Kip -

I knew you didn't forget - and it's clearly not impeding my progress! Rivet school would be fantastic, actually. I didn't do any at Roger's demo in Albuquerque. There was limited class time and I figured I'd let the others have a chance and hope you'd eventually be available. I did get the rivet gun you told me to get, though. Rivets, bucking bar, plenty of cleco's (but one less than I need..)

I'm irrigating hayfields this week, but I should be free all next week through the fourth. Hope you're healing well - who's minding the big bird in your absence?

[KCN]

Well, I got the lugs loosened with the recommended breaker bar and a 13/16 socket. Next it was back up on sawhorses for the shell. Used far less bracing this time - only two 2x6 crosspieces. The guy in storage unit next to mine poked his head in at the wrong moment so he got to help me lift the last inch, lucky man.

I jacked the frame up and put it on 18" log rounds - cheap and solid.

Pulled the wheels off, read "Hadco Eng Co" and then headed to the Vintage Airstream site for a lesson in Hadco Engineering and their association with Airstream in the 50's....but my trailer is supposedly a 62. The fact that I have this gear on my trailer doesn't necessarily mean it's a 50's trailer, I realize, but it's certainly an odd 62. I will continue to ask people who know more than I do what the heck this all means, other than the fact that my axles are even older than I thought and therefore need to be replaced just the much more.

The axles are also stamped "3000" as shown in the picture.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I just found this thread and have to also say tremendous job! Your work is excellent.
I think your hubs are recycled onto original axles. If you have an early 62 made in California, there is a good chance the axle was indeed welded into place. The tank was up front in your trailer too.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by KCN

Well, I got the lugs loosened with the recommended breaker bar and a 13/16 socket. Next it was back up on sawhorses for the shell. Used far less bracing this time - only two 2x6 crosspieces. The guy in storage unit next to mine poked his head in at the wrong moment so he got to help me lift the last inch, lucky man.

I jacked the frame up and put it on 18" log rounds - cheap and solid.

Pulled the wheels off, read "Hadco Eng Co" and then headed to the Vintage Airstream site for a lesson in Hadco Engineering and their association with Airstream in the 50's....but my trailer is supposedly a 62. The fact that I have this gear on my trailer doesn't necessarily mean it's a 50's trailer, I realize, but it's certainly an odd 62. I will continue to ask people who know more than I do what the heck this all means, other than the fact that my axles are even older than I thought and therefore need to be replaced just the much more.

The axles are also stamped "3000" as shown in the picture.

Notice that the torsion arms are parallel to the chassis, with zero weight on them.

When loaded, those arms will be going uphill, which says the rubber rods within the axle tubes, are history.

Torsion axle last about 25 years.

Yours are twice that old.

Andy

[KCN]

Thanks, Frank - I read your threads and blog and have learned a lot from your experience. I appreciate your kind words!

Yeah, Andy, they are old for sure..possibly even older than me...

I got the brake/wheel assemblies off with little trouble once I was shown how to do it by Todd at Vinstream - he also made the new corner floor channels for me, btw, and has been super patient and helpful instructing me on what must seem like very simple tasks to a lot of folks on here. I now know things like what a castle nut is and what long run bearings are. Todd will be fabricating new shock mounts as well - in one of the pictures below you can see the rear one curbside was bent inward - in fact, it actually punched through the old wheel well. The new axles will also require some experienced installation - again, not something I'm going to trust myself to do, though I plan to "assist" ...

I have ordered new axles from Colin (check's in the mail). Happy to say I finally had the chance to visit with him. Todd also chatted with him on my behalf so that nothing was lost in translation, as I'm sure it would have been otherwise. They both confirmed that my frame is narrower than the norm. (My cross-members are also on pretty narrow centers - 16, mostly, though some were as narrow as 14). So I guess the typical axle measurement is more like 57 3/4 and mine is 57 3/8. My original axle mounting plates were also not flush with the frame, but extended beyond - can sort of see that in the picture. I am getting 57 1/4" axles with 10" brakes, 22 degree, 3000# (the trailer originally weighed in at 3750 according to spec, which gives me ample wiggle room for the stuff I plan to use.) Since I had those big old 5 lug wheels I'm also replacing those, as the new wheel assemblies have 6.

Now I'm starting to cut those plates off. The exterior welds aren't be so bad but the interior edge is going to test my mettle...metal... lots of sparks.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by KCN

Thanks, Frank - I read your threads and blog and have learned a lot from your experience. I appreciate your kind words!

Yeah, Andy, they are old for sure..possibly even older than me...

I got the brake/wheel assemblies off with little trouble once I was shown how to do it by Todd at Vinstream - he also made the new corner floor channels for me, btw, and has been super patient and helpful instructing me on what must seem like very simple tasks to a lot of folks on here. I now know things like what a castle nut is and what long run bearings are. Todd will be fabricating new shock mounts as well - in one of the pictures below you can see the rear one curbside was bent inward - in fact, it actually punched through the old wheel well. The new axles will also require some experienced installation - again, not something I'm going to trust myself to do, though I plan to "assist" ...

I have ordered new axles from Colin (check's in the mail). Happy to say I finally had the chance to visit with him. Todd also chatted with him on my behalf so that nothing was lost in translation, as I'm sure it would have been otherwise. They both confirmed that my frame is narrower than the norm. (My cross-members are also on pretty narrow centers - 16, mostly, though some were as narrow as 14). So I guess the typical axle measurement is more like 57 3/4 and mine is 57 3/8. My original axle mounting plates were also not flush with the frame, but extended beyond - can sort of see that in the picture. I am getting 57 1/4" axles with 10" brakes, 22 degree, 3000# (the trailer originally weighed in at 3750 according to spec, which gives me ample wiggle room for the stuff I plan to use.) Since I had those big old 5 lug wheels I'm also replacing those, as the new wheel assemblies have 6.

Now I'm starting to cut those plates off. The exterior welds aren't be so bad but the interior edge is going to test my mettle...metal... lots of sparks.

Down sizing brakes from 12 inch to 10 inch, is a giant step in the "WRONG" direction.

There is no way on this planet that should the brakes fail on your tow vehicle that you can stop the trair and tow vehicle with 10 inch brakes.

10 inch brakes for 2 axles are rated at 7,000 pounds. 12 inch brakes are rated at 12,000 pounds.

That is "IF" they are perfectly adjusted, which never happens as they wear.

But, there are self adjusting electric brakes that cost very little more.

The huge "MYTH" is that 10 inch brakes are equal to 12 inch brakes.

That is one of the biggest RV myths ever created.

Safety is safety.

Safety is never equal to the original brakes, by down sizing, which costs the supplier less money.

But, as always, it's the consumers choice.

Andy

[KCN]

Andy -

Is this a good time to mention that this trailer did have 12's but they were non-functioning when I bought it? So a 10 would actually be going in the RIGHT direction in this scenario... See the picture of the ss front..

However, I probably will stay with 12's (but ones that work) as I was unable to come up with a compelling argument NOT to do so. I currently tow with a 7.3 diesel one ton (pretty big pickup) with which we also haul a four-horse tandem axle gooseneck, and that trailer has 12" brakes, of course. I regularly have my brakes adjusted and inspected for hauling that heavy, live, shifting load, so hopefully I'm one of the safer rigs going down the road.

Thanks for your input. I ended up checking the various state laws on braking capacity of trailers, and decided I'm never going to drive in Kentucky.


Trailer Brakes | AAA/CAA Digest of Motor Laws

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by KCN

Andy -

Is this a good time to mention that this trailer did have 12's but they were non-functioning when I bought it? So a 10 would actually be going in the RIGHT direction in this scenario... See the picture of the ss front..

However, I probably will stay with 12's (but ones that work) as I was unable to come up with a compelling argument NOT to do so. I currently tow with a 7.3 diesel one ton (pretty big pickup) with which we also haul a four-horse tandem axle gooseneck, and that trailer has 12" brakes, of course. I regularly have my brakes adjusted and inspected for hauling that heavy, live, shifting load, so hopefully I'm one of the safer rigs going down the road.

Thanks for your input. I ended up checking the various state laws on braking capacity of trailers, and decided I'm never going to drive in Kentucky.


[/url]

Technology, somehow gets better, in time.

Electric brakes for trailers, both 10 inch and 12 inch are available for a very small amount of extra money, [/]that are SELF ADJUSTING[/b].

Everytime you back up the trailer, the brakes self adjust, keeping them at 100 percent, at least until they are worn out.

Usually we stop at the drivers convenience, but sometimes we must stop for some other persons convenience, because of the dumb mistake or boo bo they made.

There is no such thing, at least to me, when it comes to safety, of having too much brakes.

Ask most any trailer owner, or pilot.

Safety should never be determined by dollars.

Andy

[KCN]

Been on the road most of the past 3 weeks so not much getting done. I have spent many hours trying to grind the welds off the old axles, but I gave UP yesterday and have called a mobile welder to come torch them off - didn't want to, but my axles have been ordered and I'll never be ready for them at the rate I'm going since I'm leaving town again. Welding has been the biggest challenge of this project; finding people willing to do these annoying little jobs.

In the meantime, I found this vintage kin while "dumpster diving" in a ranch dump...any ideas about it? I plan on taking more pics. I do plan on scavenging the old hand pump faucet that is in it (why? what will I do with it???) - there was originally a water reservoir in the cabinet beneath the faucet, as I understand from owner. The compound corners appear to be made of galvanized steel as did the roof vents.

[desertair27]

Looks like an old Avion trailer to me.

I rotated the picture for a better visual.

Very cool trailer that looks like it needs to be saved.