Senior Management Failures at AS

[bweybright]

Thank you. Your efforts are appreciated by some if not most of us. There are some self appointed experts on the forum who may not agree with my thanking you but nonetheless I do.

I am not saying everything going on from Jackson Center is great these days...but coming from industry I do realize the balance of managing an iconic brand, emotions of owners (past and present), shortage of good labor, and being responsible to the bottom line which keeps the brand in production is tough.



My experience with the Airstream staff in Jackson Center has always been stellar. I talk nice and they are nice and beyond back....just my approach
Please do keep us more frequently updated on your listening to us so that we know we aren't being forgotten.

[RandyNH]

"As you can imagine, my plate has been extremely full with my new role and although I have read every post in this thread, I admittedly do not read every post throughout the forums." JH

If you are sincere in your endeavor, then I wish you the best of luck. I can't imagine anyone here, who is a part of it or who has invested in the brand, wouldn't do the same.

Thank you for taking the time to update all of us and we all await seeing the fruits of your labor come to fruition

[blacklab]

Justin,

Thanks for the update.

As you've read in this thread, and elsewhere on this Forum, there are many of us who are encouraged with your and your Team's apparent increased focus on continuous improvement. As you told me during our telephone discussion, and as you've said here, you recognize the imperative to do so. Many folks are hoping for your success!

I look forward to learning more about the details of the Customer Quality Council.

Cheers,

Bryan
Portland, Oregon

[Tmdumbauld]

As a potential future buyer of a trailer, I sure would like to see some quality metrics hopefully showing an improvement trend before I make a decsision. Would the factory be willing to publish "first pass yield", internally found squaks at final inspection, or even customer squak trends for newly delivered trailers?

[ROBERT CROSS]

Hope Springs Eternal...Keeping the Sunny side up. 👍 👍

Bob
🇺🇸

[TG Twinkie]

Originally Posted by Gene

It has been said for years on this Forum and other places as well, that most posters are angry people who post negative comments to get a psychological kick out of it. Trip Advisor a few years ago checked that out and noted that most posts on that website were positive, not negative. Lately it has been discovered that people pay more attention to negative posts even when they are very few. Thus even forums with few negative comments may seem to have far more negative comments just because that is what people notice. I know when I am looking for a restaurant, I notice the negative comments when they point out specific problems like dirtiness, lousy service, terrible food. A lot of times there will ten vague posts about how great the restaurant is and to one specifically telling how bad it is—which would carry the most weight with you? I suspect a lot of people follow the idea of if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. It makes for nice social discourse, but nothing will ever improve if everyone does that.

What does this prove? Since this is not a travel site, Trip Advisor's statistics may not prove much for this Forum. But it is what we know. One obvious factor in why there are negative comments on threads about poor Airstream quality is that they are threads about poor Airstream quality. It is true some of the same people have posted on various threads (such as the lamented Town Hall thread), but maybe not to beat on Airstream to gain some sort of personal excitement, but simply to inform the discussion.

I have been here for 11 years and have watched the poor quality threads come and go many times. Their effect on Airstream has been limited even though there are people there who watch the Forum. I don't know whether they respond every few years to simply tamp down the anger and disappointment people feel when they purchase a so-called premium product and find it is poorly made with a lot of inferior materials or perhaps they genuinely care, but in the end cannot change the corporate culture at Thor. Every thread about this eventually dies (or was disappeared by the Forum in the Town Hall case). Customers (or people who read the thread and decided never to become Airstream customers) give up, some get what they wanted from management, or some just stew.

Personally, I got stuff done through Airstream and did a lot of improvements myself. When I sold the Airstream, I think the new owners got a good deal, a much better version than the one I purchased ten years before. I have posted on successive threads for years because it seemed to the right thing to do—to inform new people and Airstream the problems have not gone away.

I have seen two things around this over the years. Some of the "poor quality at Airstream" threads are noticed by people looking to buy an Airstream. A lot of them decide never to buy a new one, or buy one at all. Even though many people just read the threads and never post, I suspect some of them do the same. That means over the years the company has lost millions in sales. Apparently they do not think it is worth it to make a better product since they can lose sales and still make bundles of cash. And they have made bundles of cash and sold whatever they made with some exceptions (Basecamp is one; I don't know how the new version is doing, but the new one we saw sure was ugly) Despite that, Airstream still has a good reputation. I got 71% of what I paid for ours after 10 years and 63,000 miles. Try to get that for a car.

We sold ours because it just didn't fit our needs anymore. It felt cramped and the difficulty of getting in and out of bed got to be too much as we aged. Space inside was a big issue. The fridge was giving us problems for a few years and I was tired of fixing it. It seemed other expensive things might fail in the next few years. I knew the body would last longer than me, but I didn't care about whether it was roadworthy when I am 105. We bought a trailer made by a manufacturer (Northwood Mfg.) with a better reputation than Thor, but bought the cheaper model because it suited our needs. If I were going back to 2007 when we bought the Airstream and knew what I know now, I would buy the more expensive model, the Arctic Fox, not an Airstream. It also has a metal frame, but far better insulation, thermopane windows, better floorpans and better workmanship. Sure, some stuff is crap on it and the Nash we bought, but less so than we had in the Airstream. It is easer to tow Airstream and gas mileage is better because of aerodynamics, but other then the cool factor, that seems to be it.

Competition in the RV industry has gotten so intense, quality is being cut at some manufacturers to keep prices low—Thor is one that has brought quality down across the industry by making cheap RV's at low prices. Everyone suffers that way. This is one case where the "good ole days" were actually better.

I know many are in love with their Airstreams. We had many wonderful times with out traveling over much of the US and Canada. We would have had wonderful times in other trailers as well. It was special to have such a cool looking trailer, but that was not enough. There are good reasons for buying an Airstream and good reasons for not buying one. I think it bad form to criticize those who criticize Airstream because of your own needs. We just might be right and our intent may just be honorable.

Drive on and enjoy camping.

I own a '74 Argosy 26'.
When I bought it 9 years ago I expected there would be issues.
When I read the "issues" people have with their new A$ and see the same issues I had with a now 45 year old coach.
This is the reason I own a new Nash.
Didn't want to be tearing out fixtures to replace flooring etc.
I didn't buy the Arctic Fox for the same reason as Gene. Too old to worry about longevity.

[Gene]

TG, we've been here a long time and I've always respected your opinions. I don't know if I influenced your purchase, but I hope it works for you. I just got a problem with the slide before the warranty ran out, so they have to pay for it. It was rubbing underneath when going out, but not going in. I found some wires underneath that are apparently part of the problem, but that's Northwood Mfg's problem. I was a bit skeptical of buying anything with a slide, but it vastly improves the room inside. No RV is fault free and hopefully the time will come they are improved. The cars of a generation ago were pretty bad and competition from other countries changed that. I guess a Japanese RV is not here yet to scare the US manufacturers.

In the year we've had the Nash, I can't remember seeing more than two on the road. I never heard of it before we saw one at the dealer. There are far more Arctic Foxes (is that the plural when it isn't a small canine?). Revisited the factory last summer and compared to Airstream, it is a pretty small operation and Airatrwam is not all that big. You can get a tour, but there were only 4 or 5 of us. There's no gift shop, so I saved money.

Justin, the dealer we bought our Nash from has the same name as yours—Humphrey (except you have an "s"). I doubt you are related. Their shop was a disaster last year, hope it has improved. The oil and gas industry took away their mechanics with better pay. That's another problem of the RV industry—good mechanics can be hard to find and with the many, many brands, it is hard to know enough about all of the gazillion models available. I predicted you will lose your job within 18 months if you rock the boat. Save money in case you are unemployed. Good luck.

[jhumphreys]

Originally Posted by Gene

TG, we've been here a long time and I've always respected your opinions. I don't know if I influenced your purchase, but I hope it works for you. I just got a problem with the slide before the warranty ran out, so they have to pay for it. It was rubbing underneath when going out, but not going in. I found some wires underneath that are apparently part of the problem, but that's Northwood Mfg's problem. I was a bit skeptical of buying anything with a slide, but it vastly improves the room inside. No RV is fault free and hopefully the time will come they are improved. The cars of a generation ago were pretty bad and competition from other countries changed that. I guess a Japanese RV is not here yet to scare the US manufacturers.

In the year we've had the Nash, I can't remember seeing more than two on the road. I never heard of it before we saw one at the dealer. There are far more Arctic Foxes (is that the plural when it isn't a small canine?). Revisited the factory last summer and compared to Airstream, it is a pretty small operation and Airatrwam is not all that big. You can get a tour, but there were only 4 or 5 of us. There's no gift shop, so I saved money.

Justin, the dealer we bought our Nash from has the same name as yours—Humphrey (except you have an "s"). I doubt you are related. Their shop was a disaster last year, hope it has improved. The oil and gas industry took away their mechanics with better pay. That's another problem of the RV industry—good mechanics can be hard to find and with the many, many brands, it is hard to know enough about all of the gazillion models available. I predicted you will lose your job within 18 months if you rock the boat. Save money in case you are unemployed. Good luck.

Hi Gene-

Glad to hear you are enjoying your Nash. I used to know a lot of the Nash guys, many of them used to work at Fleetwood.

There is no relation between me and your dealer. I have been at Airstream now for over 7 years. I have no plans to go anywhere!

Travel safe and make sure you pay me a visit here at the factory in a couple of years-

Safe travels and happy camping.

Justin

[Slip7]

Originally Posted by Gene

I have been here for 11 years and have watched the poor quality threads come and go many times. Their effect on Airstream has been limited even though there are people there who watch the Forum. I don't know whether they respond every few years to simply tamp down the anger and disappointment people feel when they purchase a so-called premium product and find it is poorly made with a lot of inferior materials or perhaps they genuinely care, but in the end cannot change the corporate culture at Thor. Every thread about this eventually dies (or was disappeared by the Forum in the Town Hall case). Customers (or people who read the thread and decided never to become Airstream customers) give up, some get what they wanted from management, or some just stew.

I have posted on successive threads for years because it seemed to the right thing to do—to inform new people and Airstream the problems have not gone away.

I have seen two things around this over the years. Some of the "poor quality at Airstream" threads are noticed by people looking to buy an Airstream. A lot of them decide never to buy a new one, or buy one at all. Even though many people just read the threads and never post, I suspect some of them do the same. That means over the years the company has lost millions in sales. Apparently they do not think it is worth it.

I almost bought one about 5 years ago but our job situation changed. We were recently very in love with the new 33 but research on these forums drove us away. It seems the new model 33 was just shoved out the door with stuff that would have come up had some real RD actually happed. After reading the Atlas thread I was done. Today's Airstream is just too overwhelmed with demand to take time for quality.

Heck, that's the whole for the RV industry right now, isn't it? So l, if I'm going to deal with a ton of issues, and this is just a given for the industry, then I'm not going to do that with a $120k unit!

I bought a 2019 Grand Design Reflection 33ft trailer last night. It's was just over $35k. The NW units are nice albeit dated in design compared to GD. However, fit and finish for a SOB was on par.

I could buy three of these units for the price of that Classic 33!

Well revisit in a few years. Hopefully by then AS has it together with their new factory and more techs. Heck, we might be able to find a used classic by then that's not priced through the nose. But for now, I'm going camping with a lot less stress if something fails.

[Janet H]

Originally Posted by jhumphreys

Fellow Streamers-

Justin Humphreys here again. I just want to thank everyone who reached out to me privately and offered to be a part of the proposed Customer quality council as well as those who did so publicly......

Thanks for circling back on this. It's nice to see some follow up here. I think it's important to remember that while forums can be a magnet for negative posts and whinges, they can also be a great source of information for prospective owners. The overwhelming sentiment of posters at AIR is positive - they adore their Airstreams and on balance love their rving experiences. Their enthusiasm is contagious.

[TG Twinkie]

Originally Posted by Gene

TG, we've been here a long time and I've always respected your opinions. I don't know if I influenced your purchase, but I hope it works for you. I just got a problem with the slide before the warranty ran out, so they have to pay for it. It was rubbing underneath when going out, but not going in. I found some wires underneath that are apparently part of the problem, but that's Northwood Mfg's problem. I was a bit skeptical of buying anything with a slide, but it vastly improves the room inside. No RV is fault free and hopefully the time will come they are improved. The cars of a generation ago were pretty bad and competition from other countries changed that. I guess a Japanese RV is not here yet to scare the US manufacturers.

In the year we've had the Nash, I can't remember seeing more than two on the road. I never heard of it before we saw one at the dealer. There are far more Arctic Foxes (is that the plural when it isn't a small canine?). Revisited the factory last summer and compared to Airstream, it is a pretty small operation and Airatrwam is not all that big. You can get a tour, but there were only 4 or 5 of us. There's no gift shop, so I saved money.

Justin, the dealer we bought our Nash from has the same name as yours—Humphrey (except you have an "s"). I doubt you are related. Their shop was a disaster last year, hope it has improved. The oil and gas industry took away their mechanics with better pay. That's another problem of the RV industry—good mechanics can be hard to find and with the many, many brands, it is hard to know enough about all of the gazillion models available. I predicted you will lose your job within 18 months if you rock the boat. Save money in case you are unemployed. Good luck.

Ours is a 22H. No slide out. KISS for me at least

[blacklab]

If Justin and his colleagues succeed with their apparent commitment to make real and sustained progress in advancing their implementation of TPS/Lean, the company's financial performance will be strengthened, not weakened.

If those in the hierarchy above Justin share that deep commitment, it will certainly improve the odds of Jason's and his colleagues' success.

Cheers,

Bryan

[bweybright]

My thought....if we keep it real, direct, honest, and civil....not beating a dead horse and looking proactively ahead maybe, just maybe Justin will read every thread moving forward so our thoughts have a beneficial impact on future Airstreams. If we come here with a vengeance to be nasty and snarky because we feel wronged then he is going to go away.
We as the forum participants have an opportunity here to become engaged as a community with the management in Jackson Center. So I see it as a decision we as a forum community have to make and commit to.
It doesn't all have to be pretty, but getting snarky drives away more than draws in.

[Tomfeury]

Ohh noo
you mean these things suck?
I just bought a 2017 FC27 yesterday.
I decided on AS because it seemed to be of the best quality?
Now I am having second thoughts

[GMFL]

I see you’ve been a member since Nov of 2017 and this is your first post.
Not a good way to start off here FYI
Airstream makes a quality unit that “some” have problems. Sarcasm is not needed in a thread that the COO of the company has reached out to us.
Comments on your personal experiences are welcome, but general bashing should be avoided. We already have plenty of that.
Having owned your trailer for one day hardly gives you grounds or the knowledge to have an opinion yet.

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Tomfeury

Ohh noo

you mean these things suck?

I just bought a 2017 FC27 yesterday.

I decided on AS because it seemed to be of the best quality?

Now I am having second thoughts

Hi - make sure you have your own experience first. I bought a brand new 2012 off the lot. No significant problems. A few minor warranty tweaks and 5 years of life changing fun and relaxation - literally medicine.

If yours has problems, use your warranty to get the kinks out. Don’t let some complaints predispose you to ruin your own experience. And if you have some problems with it A get them fixed. And Camp Camp Camp!!!!

[Tomfeury]

I have yet to have any experience with AS, as I have just purchased a unit that has yet to be picked up.

Sorry all, I was just disheartened to open up the forum and this was my first thread, which seemed a bit negative.

But I am a positive guy! I AM back on the sunny side. My researched shows that these are the best thought out and built trailers out there and I am proud to have been able to find a way to purchase one, which I am looking forward to many happy years in.

May you all enjoy the same.

Again, my apologies!

[HowieE]

I may look at this in a slightly different manor. I have played the market since I was 12 years old. I have always deferred from investing in companies I do not respect for their practices even thought the return on investment might be very good. This has always included the pharmaceutical industry for their rape and pillage pricing.

Having owned my Airstream for 23 years I have watched them deteriorate in quality that entire time with no attempt to curtail that slide. Yes It was clear a year or so back that Thor was going to have a sharp rise in their stock price. With the need for cheap government purchased housing after the hurricanes and the found new money of the millenniums looking for a way to get out of town on the weekends would propel that rise. I did not invest in Thor and will not as long as they are more interested in selling the sizzle than the steak.

[dmac]

Many of the QC problems reported here seem minor assembly items... debris, hardware replacement, adjustments. My concerns are more about basics like:

- clear coat peeling
- aluminum corrosion
- poor paint on frame and rust
- plywood floors that rot
- cheap “woodwork” in the Safari that falls apart

Poor materials are much more difficult to fix compared to vacuuming up some shavings.

[RandyNH]

Originally Posted by HowieE

Having owned my Airstream for 23 years... I did not invest in Thor and will not as long as they are more interested in selling the sizzle than the steak.

On the contrary, if you've only owned it for 23 years then you did invest in Thor, without any financial ROI, hopefully you've had extensive enjoyment ROI though.