Airstream Bashing Depresses Newbies

[mistermcfrug]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

We were excited with our new Airstream in late 2007. After the first night, we had to bring it back to fix things that should have been done right before it was delivered. Then, on the way home, we stopped after 100 miles (of 240) and discovered one side window had blown out. The latches had not been adjusted properly—neither at the factory nor at the dealer. After some wrangling, Airstream paid for the new window. It didn't fit right and eventually had to be re-worked at Airstream to get it to close correctly.

For the first few years, scores of problems came up. They had to do with quality control (poor workmanship), cheap parts, and bad design. The dealer would not fix some things, so I had to contact Airstream to get the warranty honored. The dealer damaged our trailer by backing it into another trailer—they fixed some of it, we had to argue for 6 months over the rest. They paid us just as we were getting ready to sue them. After that we took the trailer to Airstream for warranty work, a 1,400 mile trip. For the most part the Service Center does a far better job than the factory across the street where the new ones are made.

There are items in newer Airstreams that are lowest bidder type things. For example, the shower head broke three times. I finally replaced it with one from Lowe's that cost less than $20 and works a lot better. Poor design: the water pump is installed backwards so you can't clean the filter (unless you are tripled jointed and have very small hands). They could mount it on a rubber pad for pennies to have it run quieter, but don't. An example of poor workmanship is the way they installed the skylights for years by torquing the screws so much the plastic skylight cracked and leaked within a year—any slightly experienced worker should know to use washers under the screw heads to distribute the force and prevent cracking. At present the vinyl flooring separates from the subfloor causing ripples—in hot weather it may return to flat. It is installed improperly because Airstream does not follow the most basic principles of flooring installation. Roof items are sometimes not sealed well and leak soon. The upholstrey is cheaply done and the fabric stains easily. We have some early aluminum corrosion. I could list scores of problems.

Many people have experienced these type things. For those whose Airstreams have no problems, that is great. I wish we were you.

I get it that many RV's are badly made. Some cars are badly made, but for the most part, cars and light trucks are made very well and have become nearly bullet proof in recent years. Airstream's president told me RV's are complex and things will break, but I replied, look under the hood or dashboard of a car or truck and tell me they aren't incredibly complex.

Some RV's are made better than others and some have excellent reputations for QC and design. They are not priced higher than Airstreams and sometimes less. Airstream is sold as a premium product, but is not one. I think it is probably average.

But, others will say, "they last 40 or more years". Well, the ones made 40 or 50 years were possibly made better. The basic design dates even further back and is responsible for trailers lasting so long, but has this type of innovation and quality been maintained? In 40 or 50 years, we will see if today's Airstreams hold up so well—I'll be 110 to 120 years old, so wake me up and tell me.

Bashing? Complaining? We drank the Kool Aid too and were disappointed over the next 2 years with 60 or more warranty issues. On one trip to Jackson Center something broke every day—sometimes 2 things. We discussed selling it, but held on. Things have settled down somewhat by now and we hope that it stays that way. It is overpriced and you are paying for reputation and that icon status.

In the past year or so there have been fewer threads and posts about problems. Maybe Airstream improved QC (or maybe people gave up). When I was last at Airstream 1 1/2 years ago, there was concern and some defensiveness among executives. They were listening more than ever before and there were some positive responses for a while through the Forum.

These are problems that really have happened to us with our trailer. If the Safari cost half of what it did, I'd expect lots of problems. Those that have better built trailers are lucky they got the experienced and qualified workmen. Perhaps they don't work on their trailers themselves and don't see the design issues or how cheap some parts are. I suggest dismissing people as "complainers", "whiners" and the like is unfair and not supported by facts.

It is a design icon and we like the way it looks. I didn't just "complain". I made numerous suggestions to Airstream directly on how to improve their trailers. I was treated well at the Service Center and they fixed some things for free they didn't have to. We are keeping it. Some people have had far worse problems—frame separation, bad appliances, tire failures, more leaks than I could tolerate and so on.

Fly, I hope you are one of the lucky ones. I hope you go to a good dealer (the nearest one to you does not have the best reputation and some people in BC go to the dealer in Eugene, Oregon). Maybe you will tell us about problems in several months and be labelled a "whiner" too.

Gene

I share quite of bit of this guy's experience. I sorta find it odd that some owners seem to want to shoot the messengers who write about specific warranty problems. I doubt anyone is lying. Look, if something broke down, it broke down. We're not being paid to cover up problems. If I was, then I'd be quiet. So all this talk about someone who mentions quality issues as being someone who would complain about a thousand dollar bill being wrinkled that was given to them is unwarranted.

Even though I also encountered dozens of warranty issues in the first two years of ownership, I still have the trailer and like it. But Gene is right, there is a lot Airstream could do to improve their quality--and many of those things wouldn't even cost that much.

So if you want to complain about Gene here being a complainer, also tells us why some of his specific suggestions are stupid. You'll have a hard time making sense.

[Splitrock]

If posters just wrote about the things that go right, me thinks it'd be a pretty boring forum. Most of the posts I read and enjoy are about how to fix things that broke, rusted, rotted, or are missing on Airstream manufactured products. Rock on!

[Redcobra]

I have purchased a number of expensive cars thinking they would be issue free. Sad to say that hasn't been the case either. But I enjoy driving them anyways and just get them fixed when things break or don't work right. It's all part of the experience. Airstreams are no different. Mine isn't perfect, but I love it and wouldn't trade it for a new SOB.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Well said Tom..

Some on this thread may be a little surprised to learn that the Airstream "Lifestyle" has been a part of our lives for over 25yrs, something I will NEVER regret.

If my QC posts bother some out there, well.... "thats the way the World goes round". The issues we have had to deal with on our new in 03 Classic have upset us. It has nothing to do with the necessary maintenance we all know we will have to deal with. A lot of thought and angst went into the purchase, after all it meant we were turning loose our 63 Safari after 18 Seasons.
Granted most of our concerns with the Classic turned up in the first 5yrs, but remember you have a 2yr warranty and there are bound to be "warranty" problems that occur after the term has expired. Extended service plans?...none were available at the time, and my job experience taught me that most had way to many exclusions hidden in the small print.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm not so much bitch'n 'bout Streams as venting about the lack of quality control.

It has everything to do with quality vs pricepoint of a new unit.


Believe me I'm happy that 'yer happy.

[Aage]

We wouldn't be here talking about them.

Would we?

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Aage

We wouldn't be here talking about them.

Would we?

Exactly. Nobody talks about the tire that didn't blow, the air conditioner that didn't fail, the battery that held a charge, the awning that didn't collapse under the weight of all the rainwater, the tow vehicle that didn't vomit its engine halfway through a vacation.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Gringo

I suspect some new airstream owners never changed their own oil or spark plugs, and this whole experience is a bit daunting the first time around.

Gosh, I've never changed either the oil or the spark plugs in my trailer!
.

[Gringo]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Well said Tom..

Some on this thread may be a little surprised to learn that the Airstream "Lifestyle" has been a part of our lives for over 25yrs, something I will NEVER regret.

If my QC posts bother some out there, well.... "thats the way the World goes round". The issues we have had to deal with on our new in 03 Classic have upset us. It has nothing to do with the necessary maintenance we all know we will have to deal with. A lot of thought and angst went into the purchase, after all it meant we were turning loose our 63 Safari after 18 Seasons.
Granted most of our concerns with the Classic turned up in the first 5yrs, but remember you have a 2yr warranty and there are bound to be "warranty" problems that occur after the term has expired. Extended service plans?...none were available at the time, and my job experience taught me that most had way to many exclusions hidden in the small print.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm not so much bitch'n 'bout Streams as venting about the lack of quality control.

It has everything to do with quality vs pricepoint of a new unit.


Believe me I'm happy that 'yer happy.

after reading all your trials and tribulations....I am agreeing with you. I think you got a lemon. Statistically, it HAS to happen to someone every now and then, I suppose.

I know I've had a few.

[Gringo]

Originally Posted by Nuvite-F

Gosh, I've never changed either the oil or the spark plugs in my trailer!
.

Please tell us you haven't been paying someone else to do it...

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Gringo

Please tell us you haven't been paying someone else to do it...

I took my F250 diesel in for an oil change, and the tech recommended I get new spark plugs and wires for it. I don't get my oil changed there any more.

[dsrtgrls]

Originally Posted by overlander63

I took my F250 diesel in for an oil change, and the tech recommended I get new spark plugs and wires for it. I don't get my oil changed there any more.

that's some funny sh*t right there

[JFScheck]

Airstreams are made by hand - new units will have issues that need to be tweaked - Airstreams need continual maintenance...

Get those two facts and you will be a happy "streamer"...

[sempi2]

For the most part we have had little trouble with our A/S. For the ones we have - we just figure out how to fix them. And since Rusty Rivet retired - it gives him something to do, research, or otherwise occupy him.
Thinking that if something is troublesome and feels like to much work, one gets rid of it and moves onto something else.
We plan on fixing things as needed and seeing as much of this great USA has to offer. And if a problem turns out to be more than we are able to deal with - we will call Lars - our local RV guy who has done many things for us. Plus we have Sutton A/s in Eugene if really neede
Go forth and camp - camp - and camp. As you explore this great country you will have memories (which is what it is all about) that will last a life time. And if you have kids and grandkids and great grandkids (bring them along) you will pass on something - priceless. Best, Susan
PS you could always tent camp - not to come loose, break or fail, just a thought.

[Gringo]

Originally Posted by overlander63

I took my F250 diesel in for an oil change, and the tech recommended I get new spark plugs and wires for it. I don't get my oil changed there any more.

Of COURSE not! if the fool couldn't see that all you really needed was a new coil and distributor cap, you certainly don't want him messing around with yer Ford.

[JCINNY]

We traded our 2005 Pioneer "wobble box" for a 1984 Airstream...go figure, some people can't, but we "get it". Jim and I are havinga blast doing some work on her and love every minute we spend in her. Some problems but so much class it isn't even funny. We feel like we finally have our dream.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Gringo

Of COURSE not! if the fool couldn't see that all you really needed was a new coil and distributor cap, you certainly don't want him messing around with yer Ford.

Eggzackly...

[ROBERT CROSS]

There was a previous post referencing our Airstream as a Lemon.
If you concede the fact that poor quality of "build" equals lemon then I will agree.
I have included just one photograph to illustrate the point, is this a design fault?, or poor build quality? Lemons can be produced by either. There is nothing inherently wrong with the design, so that leaves only the execution. Most of the other "bashers" have given similar illustrations.
We are not criticizing the product but the end result of the "build". This concern has been enumerated many times over in the Town Hall thread.
Other facets of the build relate to the quality of some of the components. A very minor example of this is fasteners. After eighteen Seasons with a vintage Safari I knew how problematic removing rusted screws could be. After getting the Classic home I was a little surprised to find that every external screw was base metal. Thirteen dollars at Home Depot solved the problem. Seems like a very insignificant concern, but is it irrational to expect more at our price point.

From the Airstream Home Page…"The Airstream philosophy has always been and will always be, Lets not make any changes - let's make only improvements!"

Another illustration was referenced as to the similarity of the boating experience to the Streaming lifestyle. I don't think the two are comparable. My boating over the years has been influenced much more by poor design than poor execution. I have gotten rid of boats because the design, ie, stability, ride comfort, performance, didn't meet my expectations, not because I was upset with the maintenance requirements. When you buy an inexpensive boat, you should realize you may need to spend more time with the upkeep, I have and I did. We don't have the inexpensive option with Airstream. Only the SOB option, and once you Stream that option just fades away.

Our "new" boat was purchased used in 09, considerable research done before buying. I was very impressed when I visited the factory in Louisville Tenn. Even more so when I read the mission statement.
We must take into consideration that AS production is a lot more than the 200 or so boats Allison builds per year. The physical plant and production procedures are in no way transferable, but the care and pride of build can, and should be.

"Allison Boats and our Spirit of Excellence"
"Each Allison boat is the end product of a unique and uncompromising synthesis of design, materials, and craftsmanship. Our totally new designs are developed to exceed standards of past models.

There is the endless process of testing, changing, and retesting. Efficiency, including unsurpassed fuel mileage, maximum strength with minimum weight, smooth and dry ride, more speed with smaller horsepower is a top priority.

The use of exceptional materials and quality craftsmanship, as well as advanced technology in construction, makes Allison the choice for a new sport, fishing or race boat.

Innovative techniques and inventions that are years ahead of the competition provide long term durability. Hand fitment of virtually every part of structure, superstructure, and each accessory assures the absolute highest quality boat available at any price.

Only Allison takes the care to design, engineer, and craft from the finest materials available a boat that will last your lifetime."

[Excella CM]

I think the basic design of the Airstreams contributes a little to the unhappiness some folks feel when they encounter less than perfect execution and attention to detail in the manufacture. Airstreams look so good that you naturally have high expectations that anything that handsome must be of a piece and perfect in all the other details. I have a '78 Excella which I spend time maintaining, but which is basically sound with good quality original equipment. My goal has been to keep everything functional and to improve and upgrade to do justice to the overall design. That said, I believe folks are justified in complaining when they encounter shoddy workmanship. Airstream has no real competition for their particular type of product and that works against them as it does with any sort of monopoly. I think they could do better if they had to, without going out of business due to production costs, but they probably wont if they can avoid it. Kinda typical for modern day manufacturing.

[Gene]

It is true that Airstream has no competition in this style trailer, but Thor Industries, the owner of Airstream, does have competition. But their products generally are average or below. The reason, I believe, is merciless cost cutting.

American corporations are obsessed with making quarterly numbers to show Wall St. they are always getting bigger and making more profits. In a mature industry it is impossible to significantly increase your numbers without cutting employees, hiring lower paid and less capable employees, and using cheaper and cheaper components. You could cut compensation for top executives and board members, but that doesn't seem to occur to anyone. This death of a thousand cuts to product begins to show after a while.

Bob's photo above shows one of the soil stacks (I think, I've never been on top of his trailer)—these are the vents for the black and grey tanks. For years they have been installed badly, didn't fit right and are so cheap they crack, most often in less than 2 years. You may not notice the leaks because they drip down the outside of the pipe, but inside the walls they can cause havoc. Despite the many complaints about this item, Airstream has kept doing the same thing for year after year (definition of insanity). By the time our Safari was built, it appears someone at the factory got the idea to slather more and more sealant around these things. It may work; our vent covers have not caused any problems. It sure looks sloppy and is the type of solution you use when the workers can't learn how to do it right and just tell them to put a lot more on. The original problem is the wrong sized part, a cheap part and poor workmanship. This type of problem happens a lot. If you crawl around on your roof you may see sealant slavered on all the things that pierce the roof—what you will not see is sealant used carefully. And despite all the sealant, both our fans and our skylight leaked. We have also had leaks in our front and rear panos and one Vista View window.

Investors look for capital gains—buy stocks that rise quickly, then sell. Dividends are low and it is hard to live on investments for retired people if you rely on dividends. Other investors go for capital gains too. So companies like Thor have to keep their stock price going up and up. This means not investing in good employees, not investing in automation, not investing in innovation, and other cost cutting. It means for many companies buying back company stock to raise prices, a tactic that often does not work, but remains popular. Buying back stock leaves less money to invest in products and paying in dividends. For these decisions executives pay themselves tens of millions of dollars per year—do you see something wrong here? And don't forget part of their compensation is stock, so they want capital gains too.

There is another problem at Airstream. They have a real problem with change. The Service Center repairs trailers and has a pretty good reputation. The SC should know what design doesn't work, where there is poor workmanship and what parts are junk. I was told when I was last at JC they do have a committee with representatives from the SC and factory so this information can be passed on. I know people in JC follow the Forum to gather information (among other things). But the factory doesn't listen. Complacency? Bad leadership? I was also told they have QC people and I may have laughed when I was told that. When you have put in place QC engineers and committees to facilitate communication, but everyone knows the pressure from above is to cut costs, that pressure cancels out any committees or QC efforts.

A couple of years ago Airstream agreed to a place on this Forum to hear complaints and suggestions. That's the Town Hall Bob referred to. Airstream president Bob Wheeler participated. The outpouring may have shocked Airstream because they did not respond all that well and eventually closed the thread. Airstream used to go through PR people very fast and another one got fired—the Town Hall was probably that person's idea. I hope the results have been positive for newer owners and the product has been improved.

When stock price trumps everything, product suffers. Eventually sales drop and the executives move on and wreak havoc somewhere else. Some countries have reputations for superior products and they start exporting to the US. Those companies may get complacent and another country's companies take their place. Remember when RCA made the best TV's? That was in the 1940's and '50's. Later it was Sony, but Sony's time has passed and a few weeks ago we bought a Samsung TV. South Korea's companies are starting to do to Japan what Japan did to us—look at what is happening with Hyundai vs. Toyota.

Airstream does have US competitors who make innovative trailers, some clad in aluminum I believe. Their external design is unusual and appears to have a good coefficient of drag, maybe better than Airstream's. I just learned from a thread (maybe this one) that Germans make RV's. Airstream cannot be complacent or someday everyone who wants one will have a 40 year old trailer.

Gene

[Gringo]

Dang it, I'm a newbie AS owner. and now I'm depressed.

I KNEW this was gonna happen.