Do You think I need a WD hitch?

[Dashwa]

Originally Posted by FL Dawg

I just purchased my 1st AS. It is the 2016 International Signature 27FB with 7700 GVWR and 770 Tongue weight. I also just purchased a 2015 Ford F250 4x4 Platinum with the 6.7L V-8 Diesel. Truck comes with the trailer tow pkg, trailer sway control, trailer brake controller and pretty much all the options Ford offered on the 2015's. I just retired and wife and I plan to tour the USA extensively. Dealer does not think I will need the WDH. What say you?

Most definitely yes. Not only WD (which does not control sway) but Sway Control as well. Although not as critical with an AS, you want to eliminate the potential totally, your investment demands it! I would recommend the best hitch on the market a ProPride 3P Hitch (which stands for "projected pivot point"). The key is eliminating the central pivot point, which you have with any ball hitch. If the trailer can initiate any movement side to side, then you have sway.
Sean Woodruff at ProPride can explain if interested. My two cents.

[guskmg]

I would go with the trapazoid design of Hensley or ProPride. The cost of the hitch is probably less than 2% of you TV TT combination. But, i can guarantee your cost/benefit ratio will increase dramatically. One save me and my rig on I-90 when a tractor trailer wheel and tire came across the median and almost hit me in the drivers door before I had to do a severe swerve to avoid same. I will never tow a rig without one of those hitches.
guskmg

[USAtraveler]

As you can see, Dawg, there are any number of people here who have been convinced they...and you...need a heavy WD system and sway control...even though your truck is fully capable already and your Ford dealer confirms it. I'd trust him a lot more than a bunch of people who refuse to acknowledge there are also drawbacks to these systems that can hurt you.
One thing I would agree with is too much weight on the tongue is not good. The best solution here is simply to avoid loading hundreds of pounds of stuff into the front of the trailer where it will add to tongue weight. As with any trailer, you want to keep added cargo weight centered as much as possible over the axle(s), not adding WD hitches in an attempt to correct for poor "manual" weight distribution. Look, for example, at how large utility trailers or horse trailers are designed. Cargo weight is kept over the axles, not in front.
As Tom T. suggests, a quick check is to measure the ride height of your truck with and without the trailer connected. If the measurement at the top of the front wheel well is much more than an inch or so greater, the next step would be to get some actual weigh-in numbers. You don't want to have less weight on the truck's front axle than the rear axle with the trailer connected. So if that's the case, look at why there is excessive tongue weight. Ideally, the tongue weight should be somewhere in the range of 10 to 12% of gross trailer weight, not more. AS trailers are designed to give you this parameter. If you are over, manually redistribute the weight INSIDE your trailer; don't start thinking you need a WD hitch right away.
Pulling any large trailer of course requires more attention to safe and sane on-the-road driving practices. Keep your speed down, allow more distance behind other vehicles, don't make abrupt maneuvers, and anticipate traffic flow changes. Adding WD is certainly not going to make you a safer or more capable driver!

[dkottum]

Weight distribution WILL make you a safer and more capable driver because you will be driving a safer and more capable combination. Better handling, better braking, less susceptible to loss of control from reduced steering traction on slick roadways, improved sway resistance.

[gr.austin]

I just bought the same 2016 F250 platinum truck. I also have a 27F FB Classic. My trailer weight is closer to 9000lbs and my tongue weight is closer to 1100 because all the loose stuff in the trailer gets put on the bed for safe travel. I also carry about 1000 lbs in the bed of the truck with a 200# cap. My truck is sagging about 3 inches in the rear with the trailer hooked up and 1000# WD bars maxed out. I am heading to Hensley Mfg to see what they can do to level things up.

So my suggestion to you is only get a WD hitch if you:
1. Are going to travel over 50 MPH
2. Are traveling in Cold Weather (slippery roads)
3. Are going to travel more than 10 miles per trip
4. Want to be able to steer the truck in an emergency
5. Don't want to pull your rig out of the road side ditch
6. Can't afford to replace that beautiful $125,000 TV and TT
7. And finally don't want to spend endless hours in the shrinks office trying to help you forget that horrible mistake you made.

Just a side line about the truck. It work great and pulls the 27FB with ease. So far only two problems 11.5 or less MPG and can't drive over 230 miles without stopping for full.

For those people who claim great fuel mileage well I don't see it in the first 3000 miles towing. Maybe I just bought a $70K lemon (Ford).

HAPPY STREAMING

GARY

[DaveMc]

Originally Posted by USAtraveler

...a bunch of people who refuse to acknowledge there are also drawbacks to these systems that can hurt you...


...Look, for example, at how large utility trailers or horse trailers are designed. Cargo weight is kept over the axles, not in front...

...You don't want to have less weight on the truck's front axle than the rear axle with the trailer connected...

...don't make abrupt maneuvers...

USAtraveler, I don't know, man. I know you mean well, but this doesn't seem like the best advice. Since I own a ProPride, I'm curious to learn how this system can "hurt me". Appears you believe the same is true for a Hensley.

Stock trailers aren't designed to keep weight "over the axles". 1-2 capacity horse cattle trailers are close to this ratio, but my guess is that you've little experience with large stock trailers. Google them to see-- lots of tongue weight equals...wait for it...a gooseneck trailer. You know where the pivot point (and load) is on these? Same place it is on a ProPride or Hensley Arrow with a proper WD setup... over the axle.

Equal weight on front and rear axles is too much of a generalization to be considered accurate. It can't be used as a blanket statement.

As for not making "abrupt maneuvers". If everyone could avoid making them then there'd be a whole lot fewer accidents. Til that happens, watch your blind spots, life comes at you fast. A WD hitch (of any brand) is the best piece of equipment you can have to help ensure that your rig will respond the way you want it to in an emergency.

Dave

[SailorSam205]

Originally Posted by 69SoulShine

Careful with which hitch you get , blue ox and several others say you have to turn off your anti-sway from your Ford F-250 every time you start the truck.
Not so with Pro Pride.

That is interesting! I'm guessing that if sway starts with one of these hitches and the truck anti-sway enabled it actually ends up making the situation worse?

[rmkrum]

The basic advantage of the Hensley design is that sway flat won't happen. That's why I bought one.

[larryglarson]

This is one of the most talked about things on the forum, you will get a lot of opinion. You do not need a WD hitch! A book could be wrote about why, but believe me.

[gypsydad]

What you need and what you want are usually, 2 different questions here...obviously, many folks on the Forum beat this question to death... seems like every week! Get WDH hitch and stop worrying about it. You likely don't need it till you need it, but remember, it could help save your life and your AS when you need it!

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by larryglarson

This is one of the most talked about things on the forum, you will get a lot of opinion. You do not need a WD hitch! A book could be wrote about why, but believe me.

In some countries, you can run for office with that kind of logic [emoji3]

Seriously though - is there something in particular that leads you to this recommendation? I have a very similar setup to the OP's and can show you the CAT scale tickets that demonstrate my 27FB lifts about 500# off the front axle of my diesel 3/4 ton (which is pretty nose heavy to begin with). My truck manufacturer wants at least 50% of that 500# replaced with a WD hitch.

[banderabob]

Just agreeing with others....YES.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by FL Dawg

I just purchased my 1st AS. It is the 2016 International Signature 27FB with 7700 GVWR and 770 Tongue weight. I also just purchased a 2015 Ford F250 4x4 Platinum with the 6.7L V-8 Diesel. Truck comes with the trailer tow pkg, trailer sway control, trailer brake controller and pretty much all the options Ford offered on the 2015's. I just retired and wife and I plan to tour the USA extensively. Dealer does not think I will need the WDH. What say you?

Most people are saying you need a weight distribution hitch, but I say no. Here's why.

Your truck will handle best when you have a 50/50 weight distribution between the front and rear axles. Without load you have about 65/35 because of the diesel engine over the front wheels. If you put a 1000 lb. load on the hitch receiver you will be almost at 50/50. You don't want to use a WD hitch because that will unbalance the truck again.

[Mollysdad]

I keep thinking.....After all the hand wringing and pencil sharpening, the entire hitch is still held in place by a 5/8" pin probably made in China.

[USAtraveler]

Originally Posted by DaveMc

USAtraveler, I don't know, man. I know you mean well, but this doesn't seem like the best advice. Since I own a ProPride, I'm curious to learn how this system can "hurt me". Appears you believe the same is true for a Hensley.

Stock trailers aren't designed to keep weight "over the axles". 1-2 capacity horse cattle trailers are close to this ratio, but my guess is that you've little experience with large stock trailers. Google them to see-- lots of tongue weight equals...wait for it...a gooseneck trailer. You know where the pivot point (and load) is on these? Same place it is on a ProPride or Hensley Arrow with a proper WD setup... over the axle.

Equal weight on front and rear axles is too much of a generalization to be considered accurate. It can't be used as a blanket statement.

As for not making "abrupt maneuvers". If everyone could avoid making them then there'd be a whole lot fewer accidents. Til that happens, watch your blind spots, life comes at you fast. A WD hitch (of any brand) is the best piece of equipment you can have to help ensure that your rig will respond the way you want it to in an emergency.
Dave

I think you understand very well that I was not referring to large livestock trailers when I said utility and horse trailers, so your attempt at deflection is just devisive. A careful search and reading through the forum will turn up accounts from owners who have experienced potentially devastating consequences from using a WD/anti-sway hitch. However, they are immediately set upon by other owners such as yourself and dkottum who are so thoroughly invested in the grandiose claims for these hitches that you can't conceive or admit to problems with them.
I've not said that a WD hitch is never appropriate; only that (1) they are needed far less often than claimed, and (2) if used, should be set-up and checked VERY carefully to be sure one is not compounding an already unsafe situation. A WD/anti-sway hitch is certainly NOT always better than nothing nor is it always an improvement over every situation. And to the extent it gives an owner a false sense of greater stability, causing him or her to drive beyond safe and sane limits, it is definitely being oversold to unsuspecting newbies.
Newer vehicles used for towing, pickups and SUV's, universally come equipped with standard stability control. Yet the vehicle manuals say the feature should be switched off when towing with a WD/anti-sway hitch. Vehicle mfg's have apparently found it's unsafe not to do so, yet how many new owners are aware of this requirement or follow it all the time? The built-in stability control feature will help keep your TV headed where you steer it, even if the trailer is not in perfect alignment...on condition, of course, that your TV and trailer are otherwise well matched. Any maneuver or wind force drastic enough to throw your trailer so far out of line that it becomes a potential accident is going to be equally devastating to a WD/ant-sway equiped rig. If you think otherwise, you are just fooling yourself.

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

Most people are saying you need a weight distribution hitch, but I say no. Here's why.

Your truck will handle best when you have a 50/50 weight distribution between the front and rear axles. Without load you have about 65/35 because of the diesel engine over the front wheels. If you put a 1000 lb. load on the hitch receiver you will be almost at 50/50. You don't want to use a WD hitch because that will unbalance the truck again.

At least two problems with this theory. You have ignored the unloading of the steering axle when dropping the trailer tongue on the hitch receiver. And you are forgetting that we also load people and gear in the truck and truck bed when traveling, which unloads the steering axle even more.

If you think your truck is so heavy in front that loading the truck and truck bed, and the hitch receiver with 1,000 lbs of Airstream tongue weight, does not significantly reduce the weight on the steering axle, you need to take it to the CAT scale and see what you have for axle loads before heading out on the highways.

Posting those scale tickets would be interesting.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by dkottum

You have ignored the unloading of the steering axle when dropping the trailer tongue on the hitch receiver.

True.

And you are forgetting that we also load people and gear in the truck and truck bed when traveling, which unloads the steering axle even more.

Not necessarily true. A person sitting in the cabin adds weight to both axles. Gear in the bed, if in front of the rear axle, adds to both although biased to the rear. All weight added to a truck does not sit on the hitch.

I think Mergatroyd makes a good point. If a heavy duty truck is designed front heavy, additional weight transfer is not called for.

I'm going to stop reading these threads. Please promise me, when I attend a Airstream rally, we won't spend all day arguing about hitches.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by dkottum

At least two problems with this theory. You have ignored the unloading of the steering axle when dropping the trailer tongue on the hitch receiver. And you are forgetting that we also load people and gear in the truck and truck bed when traveling, which unloads the steering axle even more.

If you think your truck is so heavy in front that loading the truck and truck bed, and the hitch receiver with 1,000 lbs of Airstream tongue weight, does not significantly reduce the weight on the steering axle, you need to take it to the CAT scale and see what you have for axle loads before heading out on the highways.

Posting those scale tickets would be interesting.

Actually I have not ignored those things. I did the math and it shows that you do not want to distribute weight to the front axle because the front axle is already too heavily loaded. But I agree that if you are also carrying a heavy load in the bed it could change things. If you load bricks in the bed behind the rear axle maybe you want a WD hitch.

Do I take it that you agree with having a 50/50 distribution? Or do you think that it's better to have more weight on the front axle?

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Mergatroyd

. . . Do I take it that you agree with having a 50/50 distribution? Or do you think that it's better to have more weight on the front axle?

For us with two 3900 lb axles on the truck, it handles and brakes beautifully with the axles evenly loaded. But that would not be remotely possible, even with our heavy diesel engine, without our weight distribution hitch transferring truck bed and Airstream hitch weight to the steering axle.

Another benefit of our w.d. hitch; 200 lbs or so are distributed to the two Airstream trailer axles effectively increasing the load capacity of our truck and having little to no effect on the 7300 lb GAWR of the Airstream axles (there's not enough storage space to overload it).

[Mergatroyd]

My analysis was for a 3/4 ton truck. A 1000 lb hitch load, without cargo in the bed, will give you a front/rear distribution of 51/49. No WD hitch necessary. The same load on a 1/2 ton truck will give you 45/55, so, yes, you can benefit from a WD hitch on a half ton truck. The numbers are for Ram trucks. The Ram towing chart gives you axle loads for an unloaded truck so you can easily calculate what a hitch load will do.