Dealer recommends Equalizer as a more 'user friendly' than ProPride?

[aftermath]

Originally Posted by mattskav

...

The $550 Equalizer should be just fine, a $2500 PP / Hensley is totally overkill for a 25' towed behind such a massive vehicle IMO. Plus a PP or HA are *very* heavy, expensive, and complicated. I'd recommend you tow with the Equalizer and upgrade after driving it for a year if you feel you really need to at that point.

-m

I agree with this option. I am not sure if a PP would be "overkill" for your Expedition or not.

All I do know is that I have an Equalizer and have towed 40K miles with it and never had an issue with sway or hooking up or unhooking either. The learning curve for an Equalizer is about two hookups. Works easy, can be hooked and unhooked up on any terrain, level or otherwise.

But...the issue here is that you have decided to get a PP and your dealer will not install it. If this dealer is "well respected" he should be able to direct you to a facility in your area that will install the PP. The whole notion of the customer always being right is being challenged these days. As far as pulling it on the ball a short distance, I wouldn't hesitate as long as it isn't far far away.

Good luck. Hope you get what you want out of this.

[FCStreamer]

Originally Posted by 1973Argosy

Ditto, and I tow with an expedition

Me three. I tow with an Escalade.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Biker

The trip home was white knuckle the whole way. The electronic sway control took over at one point and nearly drove me off the road. I crawled home and was actually thankful for the bumper to bumper NYC traffic.
The same truck/trailer combo with the propride was night and day.

Excellent real world experience! Thanks for sharing.

Originally Posted by SteveSueMac

Let me ask - have you used a ProPride and decided something else was better? If so - what is it and how did you make that decision?

No.
And let me repeat, I'm not criticizing the PP hitch, I just like comparisons. I also didn't pass up a Mercedes because I thought a Honda was better. That doesn't mean I'm dissing the Mercedes. Understand?
Why haven't I tried a PP? Because my rationale is to start small (and more frugally) and if I don't like it, I can always move up. I can't imagine anyone buying a PP and thinking, "Maybe I'll try a Equal-i-zer just for fun."
People driving Cadillacs never wonder if Chevy's ride just as good. Others don't want to buy a Cadillac to drive to work.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'd point out that the folks who praise the PP and add, "We don't have any sway" don't actually know if they would have HAD sway with a Equal-I-zer, Blue Ox, or naked ball. They just assume their $2500 hitch cured the problem.
I'd be more impressed if someone took the same trailer, same tow vehicle and noticed a significant difference in hitches.

I look on the highway, large boat trailers never have WD hitches. RV trailers, for the most part, have a WD with round bars. I've never seen a PP on the highway. Trailers aren't crashing all the time either.

I know, I've had both, as well as a draw-tite and a dual cam.

[RamRider]

I set up my own Blue Ox at the dealer before leaving, You should do the same with the WDH of your choice. Take your time and set it up before leaving the dealer,
I do not think I would tow with out a WDH though, if it takes an extra day or two before picking it up it will give you peace of mind that it is done correct,

[SteveSueMac]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

Excellent real world experience! Thanks for sharing.

No.
And let me repeat, I'm not criticizing the PP hitch, I just like comparisons.
Why haven't I tried a PP? Because my rationale is to start small (and more frugally) and if I don't like it, I can always move up. I can't imagine anyone buying a PP and thinking, "Maybe I'll try a Equal-i-zer just for fun."
People driving Cadillacs never wonder if Chevy's ride just as good. Others don't want to buy a Cadillac to drive to work.

We do see them for sale on the forums here from time to time. I have to imagine for some there are reasons like cost, weight penalty, learning curve, dissatisfaction with a bad installation - etc., that result in their resale. Everything's a compromise. If cost is the main driver, a new and sometimes even a used VPP can be out of the question - nothing wrong with that decision.

I was tempted by the Andersen which I think is about $500. So simple - most who use it love it and as I understand it, if I only need 50% FALR with my truck it could move enough weight (though I've come to appreciate the benefit in my rig of getting closer to 100% FALR and was even told how I could exceed that to understand driving impact - that was a fun experiment!).

What I REALLY wanted was the PullRite which physically has the pivot point at the rear axle (an upside 5th wheel if you will - like old horse/buggy wagon hitches) but they don't make them for my model truck and newer. That was about the same price range as the ProPride.

There's nothing wrong with anyone's rationale here - yours included. Pros and cons to every decision and every decision is a compromise somewhere. If I were going to try multiple hitches, I'd start with least expensive before going to most expensive. If I found what I liked early enough I could be ahead of the game. The only potential downside would be spending as much in other trials as I could by starting with a VPP - so I wanted to be sure VPP fit my mental model of what was right for me. That's what works for me. Everyone's mileage can, should and does vary.

Hitch up, check the scales, adjust, camp and smile....life is just too dang short...my $0.02.

[PKI]

Never consider the Equalizer is a good hitch for an Airstream. It is an old design that is stiff and friction based. The good point is it's easy to hook up and it does work. That would be good enough, but new and better designs are available.

A dealer who will not install a Propride is doing you a favor. Not because you should not have one, but rather because if you install it, you will better understand how it functions and is adjusted. RVing is a hands on participant activity, even if the participation is supervising the tech doing the work.

Best hitch is likely a Propride. Next is Blue Ox Sway Pro. Then comes, the Easylift. Respectively, they are expensive, reasonable, inexpensive - but they all will do the job. Reese makes a whole line of options that span the design concepts well. It's a cost benefit analysis. A cost of $2500 is a fortune to some and the price of admission to others. It is one of the many compromises on which you as an RVer will have to educate yourself.

You are not wrong, the dealer is. An Equalizer is too stiff. That technology has been surpassed. Soon we will all use integrated electronics, disk brakes, and better suspension to improve our towing experience. Tech improves. Sometimes we as people resist that change. Pat

[hhendrix]

This will probably get me a lot of grief and many would consider blasphemous by the hitch gurus here, but I'm not a fan of compicated hitches like Anderson and Propride if your tow vehicle is adequate. That being said, most hitches can be adjusted to provide better weight distribution and control.
My brother just bought a 25, FC to tow with his 1/2 ton 2009 Suburban. The dealer sold him a Blue Ox hitch and used "this looks right" set up method. Even the youtube video from Etrailer for this hitch explains nothing about axle weights. We met at his first rally and he complained about the tail wagging the dog. We went to a weigh station and the front axle was way out of balance with the rear axle. A few adjustments with the ball height and chain tension and the difference was dramatic. More than once, I was able to remove the look of terror from a newbie to a happy camper with usually simple but sometimes time consuming adjustments.
Another poster here mentioned trailer loading as a important factor. I agree. Keep in mind that axle weights are dynamic, not static. Meaning, empty tanks, full tanks, trailer loading, tow vehicle loading change every time you leave a campground. The best you can do is take your measurements with the trailer and vehicle loaded as you normally travel. Usually that means a full water tank, and empty black and grey tanks. If your significant other likes to collect boulders and heavy pottery along the way (I hope you have watched the "Long, Long Trailer" with Lucell Ball and Dezi Arnez to get the picture), how you load all that weight can make a huge difference.
Case in point: We were hosting a rally with about 35 trailers and had brought all the food and equipment. The truck was full so she loaded about 300 pounds of food and equipment in the trailer. I often check the trailer when I see an empty weigh station and I've been able to keep the trailer axles fairly balanced. To my surprise, the front axle was suddenly 300 pounds heavier than the rear. Didn't know why until we got the the campground and discovered she had loaded everything in the front of the trailer.
I tow with a 2011 Ford F250 4WD. Before that was a 2001 F350. I've towed to Alaska, half of Canada, and every state west of the Mississippi River with a simple Equalizer hitch without that silly sway control add on thing. The Ford has a built in automatic yaw control and I have never felt the need to purchase a $2000 fussy complicated hitch set. Those that have them either love em or hate em.
The point here is that almost any WD system will work well if set up and installed correctly. To me in my humble but experienced opinion, that means knowing and adjusting your axle weights using adjustments in your WD system.

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'd be more impressed if someone took the same trailer, same tow vehicle and noticed a significant difference in hitches.

I did. Same truck, same trailer, same route. We went from a Reese Dual Cam to a Hensley Arrow on our 31', and any and all sway completely disappeared. And it was pretty pronounced and noticeable before adding the new hitch.
The Hensley is pretty much the same as the ProPride, the ProPride is an improved and updated version.

[pt.reyesfan]

Starting out frugally is exactly what I did when we purchased our 2016 Airstream Classic. (I am an engineer working in a highly quantitative field. I tend to be a bit anal about tight comparisons.)

1. I really did not want to move our (working great) ProPride hitch from our 20' ATC (Aluminum Trailer Company) Toy Hauler. I really did not want to fork out $2,200+ for another ProPride hitch.

2. So the first thing I tried on the 2016 Classic was my used-Reese Dual Cam (in very good condition) that I had once used on our older big white box. I took the carefully adjusted combination out on i80 (into the Iowa rolling hills by the "big river") for a long drive in the wind, and the curves and with the very big rigs passing by at 75+ mph. I could see and feel undesirable sway. The new Airstream was less stable than my big white box had been with the ProPride.

3. Next step - the next day - was to repeat the above test with my used (still in very good shape) Equalizer hitch system (tried two different bar weights). I experienced a bit less sway, but the sway events were still there. I had one very significant sway event coming down the i80 hill from Iowa into Illinois, when an annoying 18 wheeler passed me like I was standing still, shortly before the Mississippi river bridge.

4. So them, regrettably (It was a pain.)... I took the ProPride hitch off my ToyHauler and put it on the Airstream. (I needed an entire day to do this.) Day 4 was the ProPride hitch test. Holy Sxxx Batman!!!!, no perceptible sway issues on windy and rolling i80, with the big-rigs passing by me, again and again.

5. FYI: The tow vehicle for this test-set was the same in each case: 2016 Chevy 3500 Duramax, crew cab, long bed, dually. The Airstream was loaded correctly and loaded the same for all tests. Tongue weight at approximately 12% of total trailer weight. (I used a CAT scale at i80 exit 292 in Iowa to determine trailer weight. I used a calibrated Sherline scale to measure tongue weight, and then checked the Sherline numbers with the Cat scale numbers.) All hitches were adjusted to give approximately 1/2" tilt of trailer towards front (where 1/2" = difference in trailer frame height for trailer front versus trailer back measurement.) Temperatures were in the mid 70's each test day. My driving speed was always between 60 - 65mph. Degree of sway was quantified (as inches of excursion from midline of front of Airstream trailer centerline) by a GoPro camera placed on the top of the ARE cap on the truck. So I actually have a set of histograms of of max excursion event distance from midline - over the time of the test run - for each test run. However, I really didn't need the histograms, as I could feel the sway "pressure" in the truck cab, via the steering wheel. (FYI: Even though the ProPride hitch had much less sway, per my non-quantitative in-cab sensations and per my quantitative camera measurements, the ProPride hitch still showed some degree of parallelogram-controlled displacement in the camera image record, but my fingers could not feel this effect in the truck cab. As you probably know, the PP hitch uses a parallelogram type of mechanism to significaintly reduce the transmission of sway event forces to the tow vehicle.)

6. FYI: The ProPride hitch remains on the Airstream. I have now placed the old Equalizer on my ATC Toy Hauler. (I may eventually purchase another ProPride for the ToyHauler, if I can afford it.)

[GatorDave]

Your new Expedition might have sway control. Helpful with the Equalizer hitch when it becomes a bronco when semis & large motorhomes pass on highway. Equalizer was my first hitch on my 30' pulled with Diesel Excursion. Switched to Hensley then ProPride. Propride was easier to hook up than Hensley,(shorter stinger) No sway with either of the latter.
installed the ProPride my self. Not a problem,

[trakker]

We towed our 25 ft FC for two seasons with a ProPride on it. Towed great, very stable. We had expected more long distance trips. However, we found we were using it for more frequent, shorter trips, often my wife with the grandkids. Hooking/unhooking the PP was just not something my wife got comfortable with. Replaced the PP with an ox and now I do not have to be physically present to move the trailer. Towing with the new hitch has been just fine and I suppose at some point I will just put the PP on the market.
There is no right or wrong answer. It depends ...

[dkottum]

You won't really appreciate the ease of towing and safety of the ProPride/Hensley design until you have experienced the others. After using an Equal-I-Zer and Andersen we really appreciate the ease of towing and safety of the ProPride/Hensley design.

Hitching/unhitching. It's all about alignment, get that right from the outset and is just a matter of putting the stinger in the truck's receiver, backing into the hitch head, latching up and setting the weight distribution. Simple.

[accordionman]

I'd point out that the folks who praise the PP and add, "We don't have any sway" don't actually know if they would have HAD sway with a Equal-I-zer, Blue Ox, or naked ball. They just assume their $2500 hitch cured the problem.
I'd be more impressed if someone took the same trailer, same tow vehicle and noticed a significant difference in hitches.

Mollysdad - that's an excellent point, since I'm one of those people. I have on a few occasions mentioned to people that since I have never pulled anything with any other hitch than this propride, I really cannot say that other quality hitches are not up to it's standards. I will say that during my research, prior to purchasing, I heard a lot more Yays for the propride. I had spoken with a few friends that had the Equalizer and they spoke very highly of it. Being totally new to this, the decision was actually a bit nerve racking. Should I spend the $ 2700 for the propride or go with something like the Equalizer. I went with the Propride as I thought the odds were better that it would do the job better. I didn't have any explicit proof. Now I tow with the Propride. Does it do what it promised - Absolutely ! Is there one out there that is less expensive that will do the same job - quite possibly. Sometimes, you're dammed if you do and damned if you don't !

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by DaytonaDan

Here's another question.

Would it be smart or really stupid to load the trailer's batteries and the EMPTY LP cylinders into the Expey to lower the trailer's hitch weight?

Don't know how much this would lower the hitch weight, but it should help.

The Unit Base Weight (with LP & Batteries) of a 25' Signature is 5,600. The trailer towing weight limit for the 2017 Expedition EL with a standard hitch is 6,000. And, the AS' Hitch Weight (with LP & Batteries) is 835.

Thoughts?

Hi

... sorry if this has already been answered ....

If you pull the batteries from the trailer, you loose power to the trailer safety brakes. The backup switch that (as a last resort) puts on the brakes when the hitch fails uses the trailer batteries to do it. If the batteries are in the TV, you have no power to accomplish this. Nobody *plans* on the trailer coming loose from the TV. It's not something I loose a lot of sleep about. It's still worth keeping the safety stuff working, even if it is an uncommon occurrence.

Just for the record, drop the trailer on the ball without the latch going "click" and you may well experience an unlikely occurrence. I am really obsessive about quadruple checking that particular point. Yes this gets into which hitch you have and how you hook up ...

.... back to the ever popular hitch wars ...

Bob

[JMynes]

I just towed from Florida to Maine and back again using an Equal-I-Zer hitch with 10k bars. I'm very happy with the way everything went, no sway ever, just slight push/pull from passing semis.
I've never used a PP or Hensley, but I can say with certainty that the Equal-I-Zer does a fine job.

[dcasr]

Originally Posted by DaytonaDan

We are planning to tow a 25' AS with the new Ford Expedition. In order to do this safely, Ford requires a properly designed and installed weight distribution hitch.

We asked our AS dealer to help us by installing and adjusting a ProPride WD hitch to fit this Ford requirement.

The AS dealer told us that they only install the Equalizer hitch. This AS dealer is well respected by both of us, and this Forum. We would like to follow their recommendation of the Equalizer WD hitch. However, we feel that the PP is also highly respected for its quality and performance, if not its expense, on this Forum.

We feel that, with the money we are investing in our brand-new AS and Expedition Max Platinum, the extra expense of the ProPride WD hitch is a deserved quality towing addition to our 'See the USA' touring package.

What should we do? Inquiring minds want to know.

____________________
Well, you are the customer and you have a right to buy from the dealer who will best accommodate you. I don't think your dealer will risk loosing the sale if you persist/insist.

Having said that, a few additional thoughts: Vehicles have differing distances from the center point of the rear axle to the hitch ball. The shorter the distance the better, the longer the distance the more likely there will be sway. I towed trailers since 1971 with five different tow vehicles, a 1970 Ford E350 van, no sway at any speed; 1973 crew cab International Harvester pickup, no sway at any speed; 1986 Dodge Ramcharger 4wd, significant sway so added a sway control bar; 1999 Suburban 4wd 7.4 slight sway with sway bar, worse if weight wasn't packed carefully in cabin of Suburban; 2016 crew cab GMC 2500HD 4wd diesel, no sway at all, although I still use a sway bar just because I own one. In all cases I have used a very basic Reese WD bars set up. This works for me.

Do you really need more than a WD set up and maybe a sway control bar? Maybe yes, depending on how your new Expedition handles, and how you pack it, but you don't want to buy two hitch combinations, discovering the first didn't work well enough. Its your money and if you really want the PP, get it. In any case, if you are packing heavy things in the back of your Expedition its best to put them on or in front of the rear axle. The PP and Hensley add length to the axle to hitch ball distance, but by their geometry cancel the sway before you are affected in the tow vehicle. Enjoy your new rig!

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'd point out that the folks who praise the PP and add, "We don't have any sway" don't actually know if they would have HAD sway with a Equal-I-zer, Blue Ox, or naked ball. They just assume their $2500 hitch cured the problem.
I'd be more impressed if someone took the same trailer, same tow vehicle and noticed a significant difference in hitches.

I look on the highway, large boat trailers never have WD hitches. RV trailers, for the most part, have a WD with round bars. I've never seen a PP on the highway. Trailers aren't crashing all the time either.

I used a Dual Cam over thirty years before I changed to a VPP hitch ten years ago. Same trailer brand and approximate weight. Several cars, SUVs and pickup. The heavier the TV, the more it's wanted. The better the trailer suspension and overall aero, the less the apparent need. Until that moment arrives.

I can do now highway speed maneuvers (HAVE done them as tests) that will flip smaller rigs.

Boats. That's a 5% TW. A 10,000-lb boat/trailer = 500-lbs TW. And the big boat trailers do. You just don't see them.

RV wrecks? 7500 serious injuries and several dozen deaths annually (does paraplegic or quadriplegic sound less appealing than death?). I usually watch a few occur each year, and drive thru the aftermath of others. Their "rarity" needs to be placed in context: what percentage of total annual miles is trailer-towing? The risk per mile is significantly higher.

To the OP. Anything other than a VPP hitch is obsolete. The performance difference is that great. IOW, there is no second place winner.

Why anyone waits or balks is beyond me. It precedes actual purchase of TT or TV in importance (and the whole of the lash-up). It's not an accessory or an add-on.

It's a purchase that will last as long as one tows trailers. It's dirt cheap for what it does.

One isn't going to match a Porsche Cayenne hauling a 23' with a hulking one ton and 30+ trailer. But it is as close as one will come as a start.

Can small rigs be set up without it? Sure. With Andy's advice or maybe another one of us geezers. He's systematized what we learned the hard way. But the TV is unlikely to be a pickup in that instance.

Can always contact Mr Thomson at Can Am for his advice. Or read his comments about hitches. Not to quote, but he acknowledges them as in a class of their own.

The permanent PP thread will answer most all questions. I don't think the weight of the hitch a hindrance. It's a PITA, I'll agree. But driving big trucks cures that set of objections as there's all sorts of heavy or dirty components to deal with. In that case, it's a fact, not a desire.

Good luck

.

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by DaytonaDan

Larry,

Sounds good to us! Where can we get one? Is it safe to tow an unloaded 25' AS with our new Expedition to the PP dealer without a WD hitch?

Sue & Dan

Before towing the trailer without a WD hitch, check the specs on the Expedition receiver carefully. On most brands of tow vehicles, there are two tongue weight ratings: with WD and without. The "without" number is lower, often by half. So you could be way over the weight rating.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by DaytonaDan

Here's another question.

Would it be smart or really stupid to load the trailer's batteries and the EMPTY LP cylinders into the Expey to lower the trailer's hitch weight?

Don't know how much this would lower the hitch weight, but it should help.

The Unit Base Weight (with LP & Batteries) of a 25' Signature is 5,600. The trailer towing weight limit for the 2017 Expedition EL with a standard hitch is 6,000. And, the AS' Hitch Weight (with LP & Batteries) is 835.

Thoughts?

Leave alone. Keep propane filled. And travel with full fresh water.

It's the axle/wheel/tire ratings that matter.

With WD you'll be adding approx 340-lbs to each TV axle once hitched. (850-lb TW at 80% divided by two). The bias should be greater on the rear, but you get the idea.

A smaller TV than an Expy can be used.

.