Touareg/Land Cruiser/Sequoia

[JeweloJalopy]

We just bought our TV this year, and while I would have loved the choices you're looking at we ended up with a 2004 Tahoe and are happy with it. It's not that much bigger than the 5 series BMW wagon it replaced, has an amazing turning radius, and has been reliable so far with 120k miles on it. I'm a Consumer Reports fan and they gave it decent ratings. The price difference for a similar Toyota was enough for me to pay for dealer maintenance and repairs and still be ahead.

[muskypicker]

Thanks everyone.

I looked at the Suburbans and Tahoes around here, but there didn't seem to be much of a price difference between those and the Sequoias but I'll keep looking.

There's a guy at work selling his 2007 (with the 4.7L engine) for a really reasonable price, but I'm guessing I wouldn't get too many recommendations for using that as a TV, rather than the 2008 and newer 5.7L Toyota engine.

Reading through this section makes me realize I've got a ton left to learn about the TV, but am on the right track. I'd love to consider a pickup, but we're not much for the wall between the back and the second row.

Thanks again for all the replies; this has helped a ton.

[thomp]

Interesting that in the most recent Consumer Reports states 79% of Touareg owners "Definitely Would Buy Again" with only the Dodge Durango and Porsche Cayenne higher at 81%.

I'm definitely in the buy again group. I love our Touareg and it's 28 MPG when not towing.

[ROBERT CROSS]

"The only thing everyone agrees on is that they own the best tow vehicle ever made. Funny how most of them are wrong. I own that one."

Funny but true....ours is the best!!

Get the AS first, the horse goes in front, you may not need a Percheron.

I definitely have more than I need, but better than needing more than I have, but thats just me. Your tolerance for inadequacy may vary.

It's a wonder I made it thru the first 18 Seasons, before getting smart here on the TV threads.

Bob

[Gene]

Bob, you do not have the best TV, we do. I do agree the trailer comes first, though you do have to think about what you can afford for both trailer and TV.

Musky, the Sequoia with the 4.7 L. engine is a big, comfy vehicle with enough engine to drive around all day, but attach a mid-range trailer (25-28') to it, I think it will be somewhat sluggish at times. The Sequoia is substantially heavier than the 1st generation Tundra and thus slower—we've had both.

The Tundra with the 5.7 L. is very fast if you put the hammer down, but attach a recent model 25' trailer and while still pretty fast, it is very different. With the 4.7 L in a heavy SUV like the Sequoia, you may get by, but don't try to pass anyone on a two lane road—I can do that at 60 or 65 with the 5.7 L. Tundra, but that maxs out the engine. The 4.7 L. would take too long to pass.

Gene

[mefly2]

Make sure that you can easily get service on whatever you decide for a TV...

[mstephens]

A few thoughts on why I prefer the SUV to the PU

Almost everyone I see at AS events has a PU. A few have vans, a few have miscellaneous other vehicles.

In my Suburban, I removed the third row seating. I replaced it with 3 tubs semi-permanently mounted to a plywood skiff. The first tub with low sides holds my hitch, and all the large hitching tools and our gloves. My WD bars are mounted to the floor on a little plywood skiff. The second and third tubs are high sided and hold ALL of my hookup gear from door mat to sanitary hose to cable tv cords and whatever I need for basic hookup. My small toolbox fits between the tubs.

The hitch tub is heavy and it is bolted to the skiff and stays in the car at all times. The other tubs are light and can be grabbed from the truck to the garage floor in a second and back again when ready to go. I never have to worry I forgot a hose or something, because I never take stuff out of the tubs.

When we hitch, I back in, lift the rear hatch, and everything we need is "at hand." When done, close the hatch and go. When unhitching it is just the reverse. Take stuff off, put it in the tubs. Having all this at hand, in a dry, secure place makes travel very easy. I can use all my auto door locks, auto lifts and the like.

I have watched the guys with PU trucks. They have insanely high (to me) beds, that are hard to store all this stuff in and harder to access. Usually, they have some hard cover for the bed, or they have a camp shell and sort of climb in and out. Just to my eye, it looks like a PITA. And, I know my wife who is a 50-50 partner in hitching and hooking, ain't going to clamber into a PU bed.

We don't use genny's so I don't need to carry gas in the Sub. And the room inside is huge for other things we carry. Easy to get at them.

This all falls under the category of personal style. But that's why I think the SUV is my choice.

I might have gotten a Toureg, but at the time I needed to buy the TV, the Sub came up and was "perfect fit" so we bought it (used). I doubt I could afford a Merc, but I bet they are nice. I had never owned a GM car before. I was stunned at the high quality of the Suburban. I have nearly zero complaints about it. We got a the high line LTZ model and it has a million features, and they all work. Some of them are even cool and useful!

[abutters]

We recently sold our class B+ motorhome and purchased a 25' International. We sold our Honda Ridgeline and bought a 2010 Tundra. Made our first short trip last week returning from SC to IL, and are thrilled with how much more enjoyable a TV and TT is compared to a motor home and toad. The Tundra with the 5.7 V8 pulled the TT with ease. Mileage averaged 11.5. - 12.
We've now batted for the cycle: started with a class C Born Free 11 years ago, sold that and bought a class A Trek, sold that and bought a class B+ Phoenix Cruiser, sold that and now own a beautiful International Serenity. I think we've finally got it right.
Anybody weighing the pros and cons of which way to travel feel free ask.

[ROBERT CROSS]

"A few thoughts on why I prefer the SUV to the PU"

We too....



Sweet Streams....

Bob

[dznf0g]

And... a few thoughts why I like a PU over an SUV....



with INFLATABLE boat!



No correct answer....depends on YOUR lifestyle and "toy" requirements.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Thats just a Burb with an open-air cargo box....
But at least it's wearing the "correct" tie.

Bob

[Road Ruler]

and..... a few reasons why we own a Mini Van.....

Designed to carry 8 passengers

Can tow our Airstream

Can haul our heavy equipement (and keeps it dry)

Gets 25+ MPG

Very reliable and long lasting

Comfy ride

.......but not all at the same time! LOL

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Thats just a Burb with an open-air cargo box....
But at least it's wearing the "correct" tie.

Bob

10-4!

[Budget M3]

Originally Posted by thomp

Interesting that in the most recent Consumer Reports states 79% of Touareg owners "Definitely Would Buy Again" with only the Dodge Durango and Porsche Cayenne higher at 81%.

I'm definitely in the buy again group. I love our Touareg and it's 28 MPG when not towing.

Yep, the Cayenne/T-reg is my fave, too. My twin turbo pepper also has 450 lb-ft which tows our 22-footer with ease. 20-inch wheels and nice stiff sidewalls on the tires adds to rock solid feel, as do all the electronic stability programs. The air suspension and electronically adjustable shocks are a nice luxury. I usually keep to 65-70 mph on the freeway with the rig in tow, but get "significantly less" than 28mpg :-/ At least my fuel mileage is still in double digits, though

[mtbguy]

We currently own a 1997 Land Cruiser (for ten years), a 2006 Land Cruiser with V8, and a 2008 Toyota Sequoia with 5.7L. I am currently trying to decide which one to get rid of as we don't need three vehicles. The older Cruiser is great but somewhat anemic with 215HP and inline 6 (although it will probably outlast the other two vehicles). The Land Cruiser with V8 is more powerful and refined, and so solidly built. Used ones with the V8 can be found at a decent price now that they have been around awhile. I like the Sequoia, but don't know if I love it.

Negatives for Cruiser, shorter wheelbase, narrower wheelbase, probably not as good at towing a longer trailer (tail wagging the dog syndrome). Positives for Cruiser are more versatility, does everything well, built like a bank vault, every time I get behind wheel and drive it makes me happy.

Positives for Sequoia, tons of HP, (381!) even more torque, so easy to speed up passing or merging on highway. Very well insulated and quiet at speed, easy to speed if not careful. Surprisingly manueverable for its size, easier to find a better deal on them and they make a whole lot more of them than Cruisers. Negatives, its a small school bus, hard to back up at times with blind spots, very wide for parking spaces. Its a great highway/tow/trip rig, for me running around town its a bit too much of a vehicle .

Hope this helps! Rick

[frsteve.c]

Greetings,
I own a 2001 Land Cruiser and a 2007 25' Airstream Int FB.

If you lived anywhere but the rockies, I'd say get a 2006-7 landcruiser with good anti sway hitch and enjoy. In the East, my 2001 LC is good enough (225hp) but in the mountains, sloow; with the 06-7 LC you have more hp but same 4.7 engine, so better but still not good enough in the rockies with the 25'. If you buy an older model Airstream (lighter) shorter 22/23' then the 2007 LC for sale near you would be on my short list. Heck, I'd buy it if it is a mall cruiser (not used off road extensively) or high miles (over 120k) 90k with timing belt done is ideal. Cruisers are wonderful road vehicles and superior off road. For use with late model 25' Airstream, my advice is the 2008 or later 5.7L Sequoia: more storage, longer wheel base, higher tow rating and reliability; second choice is 5.7 Tundra 2 wheel drive short bed with limited slip diff. My money-no-object choice: 2012 or later Touareg/Cayenne TDI ;>)
fr Steve

[Pillow]

As others have said it really depends on what you like for a car / truck. But here goes my opinion anyway.

Money no object: 2012+ Porsche Cayenne TDI

Reasonable daily driver / TV: Toureg TDI (2004 being my fav), Porsche Cayenne 6 speed manual (CHEAP used and a good car), or Tahoe size GM SUV (Escalade or Yukon). If you can handle it, the Suburban size SUVs really are the best for towing though, even over trucks. I have driven the Sequoia and just wasn't impressed at all, "drives"/feels bigger than our Escalade ESV and has the normal sterile Toyota interior, for the money not worth it. I have not tried the MBs, but our good friend with a GL450 loves hers, non-towing owner though.

FWIW I have towed with multiple trucks and the wifes 05 Escalade ESV (Suburban with more power), but prefer the older '99 Suburban 2500 diesel to anything so far. It takes some reasonable modifications to make right for towing (engine upgrades mostly) and then you have a very good tow vehicle because of the torque and beefy transmission. Granted at this point they are older used vehicles, but if you can find a clean one it might be worth thinking about.

The wife just purchased a new model Escalade ESV for Christmas to replace the '05, so let me see how that tows with the 6 speed transmission. It has promise. Although the 22" wheels ride a bit rough, that may help with stability while towing.

It's always fun car shopping! Take your time and figure out what works for your family... Keep looking around here and you will see some unique tow vehicle setups

[abutters]

We're towing our 2012 25' International FB with a 2010 Tundra. Pulls great with more than enough power. Can easily accelerate from 60 to 80 if needed to get around and ahead of hazardous drivers. Plenty of torque for the mountains. Haven't been West yet, but the Smoky Mts are a breeze. Use a Reese hitch with 1200 lb spring bars and cams.
We used to drive a Class C with a toad and before that a Class A. Pulling an Airstream is a dream compared to those, and so much more livable when you get to camp.
Chose Toyota over Chevy/Ford. Have owned 8 Chevy trucks and 4 Ford trucks, plus a Toyota and a Honda truck. Maintenance and repairs vs longevity are no comparison. I got a lot of miles from my Chevys, but not without a lot of expensive repairs. Same with my Fords.

[Gene]

abutters, a lot of people continue to buy Chevies and Fords regardless of the evidence that Toyotas are more reliable. I don't think the Toyotas have been as reliable lately, but they still stand up to hard use and keep going. Most of the problems are not related to the things that make you go and go (fit and finish, cheap plastic interiors), but I can live with those if I don't get stuck somewhere.

Habits are hard to change.

Gene

[Pillow]

I think a lot of the "additional maintenance" items are from unscrupulous service departments. Most any of todays automobiles should go 200k if you just change the oil occasionally. And of course not drive it into the ground by hot rodding or romping on it while the drive train is cold.

Over the years I have owned all sorts of cars and brands... Generally the Asian cars have their flaws just as the US cars have theirs.

The most expensive car I have owned maintenance wise was a 1999 Cadillac Catera. I enjoyed the interior and driving, but it ate tires, brakes, and had electrical gremlins.

The most affordable is still my 1979 Porsche 911 SC. People look at me funny when I say that, but parts are cheap and it is as simple as working on a VW. About 200k on it and still going strong!

The primary TV 6.5 Diesel Suburban now has 210k and has never been better. Minus some plasticy bits that have broken here and there of course.

A little run down:
- 1971 Chevy C-10: new to 125k so far. Still going but burning oil and power is down.
- 1979 Porsche 911 SC: 150 to ~200 so far. Still going strong!
- 1984 Mazda 626: new to 215k before the motor killed itself
- 1988 Toyota Camry: new to 160ish sold it, no power but a reliable beater
- 1990 Acura Integra: new to 225k got rear ended and totalled it
- 1992 Honda Accord: new to 125k when everything started to break. Cheap car IMO.
- 1999 Cadillac Catera: new to 90k, couldn't sell it fast enough! Enjoyed the car but maintenance was brutal.
- 1999 Suburban SLT 6.5TD: 100k-210+ still have it. Minus about $5k to get it right it has been great!
- 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan ES AWD: worst drivetrain ever! Three differentials under warranty, couldn't sell it fast enough!
- 2005 Cadillac Escalade ESV: 60k-165k currently FS. radiator broke around 100k (dexcool issue i think) and tranny went out around 150k (the 60 series transmission can't handle 345HP).
- 2010 VW Jetta TDI: new to 22k sold it, well equipped for the price. I just preferred the Suburban. No problems at all.
- 2010 Cadillac Escalade ESV: 44k to ?, we will see as we just bought it.

... I think I am missing a few cars, but there is the general rundown of my experiences. I did not include the truck trucks as they were work beasts.

In summary, treat your cars right and I think any of them can serve you well.