newbie with a tow question

[echo44]

Hi I have a land rover LR4 a pretty big
suv. The tow capacity is 7,700 lbs.
I was looking to get a 25' Cloud which weighs
5,545 without water filled etc. I do not plan to be carrying
much additional weight. should this be ok?

Also the air stream dealer is trying to sell me a fancy hitch that
helps with the weight? the land rover dealer said the hitch that comes with car is just fine. The SUV does self level with a hydraulic system.

Any recommendations for a back up camera for the air stream?
The vehicle has one but will be blocked.

One last newbie question, let's say after a year i decide to get out of the
rv world how much of a hit do you think i will take trying o sell a 1 year old cloud? when do the 2013's arrive
as always thanks!!!!!

[Travel Bird]

There is no one better to ask in the RV industry than Andy Thomson of Can-Am RV (www.canamrv.ca). We had looked at three other dealerships all giving us different opinions of our TV. Someone on this Forum suggested I contact Andy. So glad I did. We will end up purchasing our AS from Andy. He has been so friendly, knowledgeable beyond belief, not pushing~at all and just a great experience. Andy writes articles for each addition of Airstream Life Magazine on towing. The guy is super genius. Tell him Anna from Colorado sent you. Good luck.

[Travel Bird]

BTW, all AS's ordered as of right now will be the 2013 models. So, now is a great time to get a good deal on a 2012 that are sitting on dealerships lots. There will be about a 2% price increase (from what I have learned) on the 2013 models. A few upgrades also on the 2013.

[moosetags]

Welcome to the Forums. We're glad to have you with us.

A late model 25' Airstream ready to go camping is most likely going to weigh-in north of 7,000# (real weight on a scale) with a tongue weight around 800+#. This will be a fairly tall order for your Land Rover. The Land Rover will probably pull the load OK, but the driving experience may approach unacceptable , especially without any weight distribution/sway control hitch system. The Land Rover has a relatively short wheel base which could result in the trailer driving the tow vehicle. Without weight distribution putting some of the load on the steering axle, the steering response of the tow vehicle may be diminished. This would accentuate an already marginal situation.

I'm not saying that this is not doable. It will take a lot of modification and set-up work to make it an acceptable combination.

Brian

[wasteer123]

In my opinion it would be a clear cut case of "wag the dog". The LR4 simply does not have the wheelbase for the trailer you intend to purchase. Also your getting way to close to maximum weights here. Many people look at the "can pull" it side of the coin but really they should be concerned with the "can stop it/can control it" side.
My Mercedes manual has this neat tag line at the end of the chapter on stability control and ABS brakes, " Mechanical features cannot overcome the laws of physics" ....there it is.
Happy Trails,
Patrick

[dwightdi]

The self leveling system in the Rover simply pumps up air shocks to keep the vehicle level. It does not shift a portion of the tongue weight off the back wheels of the TV and on to the front steering wheels. The W/D bars do that and makes the driving experience better and more controllable. You need to buy a W/D hitch.

Your wheel base is a little short for this size trailer and a Hensley (or equivalent) may be in order, depending on how you are going to use the trailer. If you are going to do a lot of Instate Expressway travel the trucks buffing you may be a discomforting. If you are traveling in the mountains above 8,000 ft you may feel under powered. If you are going to stick around the flat Midwest, you will be just fine the way you are. We used to have a guy that drove an old Cadillac and leveled out his rig with the built in air pump (w/d bars) and he never crashed. He was a trader at the CME and was used to taking risks.

[echo44]

where would the extra weight come from?
I normally only travel with my clothes
a lawn chair. I was figuring the vehicle
dry weight 5400 than add 600more lbs water and food.
this brings me up to 6000 lbs?
the vehicle also has a computerized stability
system just for towing?
I guess I could go with a 23'


check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gyc4Dmgbew

thanks again, since I am stuck with my LR4 I may have to
reconsider an AS

[echo44]

Ok, now the depression sets in
just researched my maximum tongue weight
is 500lbs and the cloud is 800lbs there goes the dream
of traveling around the country in my 25' cloud.
Kind of deceiving by LR It has a high tow weight capacity,
but a small tongue weight? I have seen pictures on the internet
of small cars towing an airstream?

[aircampr]

echo44,

Welcome to forums! Do investigate further. I have found the the defalt answers to TV questions on this and other forums is to go "big." But sometimes this is not necessary. I am not familiar with your LR4, but many modern SUV's have suspensions and control systems which make them well suited for towing (features often lacking in pickup trucks). Look deeper before committing to a trailer. Get towing practice if you can, of possible trailer with your LR4.

The suggestion to confer with Andy Thompson is very good advice. Since you are in Chicago you might consider driving to his dealership in Canada.

I am selling our Equalizer hitch because our new BMW X5 diesel does a great job of towing our 4500lb 19' Bambi with a plain ball hitch. There are no sway issues. The Equalizer reduces pitch a bit on (rare) uneven roads surfaces; but this comes at the expense of greatly increased loads into the car body when (also rare) ramps are encountered - such as entering some driveways or gas stations. And it is easier to hitch/unhitch without the bars of the fancier hitch.

Find what your max rear axel load is. You do not want to exceed this. Add the rear axel dry weight + fuel weight + tongue weight + cargo weight; this must be less than max axel weight. IF you are close, then a weight distribution hitch will transfer some of the tongue wt to the front axel, and would then be necessary.

Good Luck!

Charlie

[starcraft]

500 tounge weight is pretty dam high, my boat I can lift with my legs so maybe 200. Your rig should be capable to haul 19fter. Bambis rock and seem to get good money resale. I say go hitch some up at dealerships see what you think. I do not really believe in wheel base crap. There are many more factors to safe vehicle. I have seen old dually trucks with bald tires, shot shocks and more my 1/4 ton does safer job. Landrover is certainly more capable than most minivans on roads.

[aircampr]

If you buy a new trailer and sell it in a year, you will take a big hit. If you are unsure of keeping the trailer, consider buying a used trailer.

Charlie

[echo44]

ok i have done some more reading is this correct,
a w/d hitch will allow me to have a greater tongue weight by distributing
the weight of the RV so less is on the tongue? Does that mean
the weight is distributed to the front axil of the SUV? Doesn't that
require major modification of my Land Rover? From the pictures of the
Hensley hitch it just looks like a fancy hitch that connects to the regular hitch spot
in my vehicle?
Sorry I know so many rookie questions!

[Jim Flower]

Originally Posted by echo44

ok i have done some more reading is this correct,
a w/d hitch will allow me to have a greater tongue weight by distributing
the weight of the RV so less is on the tongue? Does that mean
the weight is distributed to the front axil of the SUV? Doesn't that
require major modification of my Land Rover? From the pictures of the
Hensley hitch it just looks like a fancy hitch that connects to the regular hitch spot
in my vehicle?
Sorry I know so many rookie questions!

You have a very adequate tow vehicle that is more than capable of towing your intended purchase, just make sure you call Andy and get it all setup correctly. Jim

[aircampr]

Many times have I heard the advice "choose your trailer first, then choose a tow vehicle."

Spend some time getting a grip on what you really need in a trailer. If the LR won't tow it, then maybe it is cheaper and less hassle to trade it in. In either case, you have to find the right compromise, with which you will remain comfortable. "Compromise" is the key word here.

My wife and I are just retired, and our kids are out of the house. We are "happy campers" in the 19' Bambi. We tow it with an SUV (BMW X5 diesel). This has been a perfect compromise for us because:

• The trailer is "cozy" and comfortable in a minimalist way.
• There is just enough storage space in trailer and car, if we remain clever.
• The rig is easy to drive and maneuver. We can go almost anywhere, and do not hesitate to pull into Safeway parking lots, etc.
• We get 16 to 17+ mpg when towing.
• The BMW is a great drive and gets 26+ mpg when not towing (most of the time).

Most of our friends have larger trailers and larger TV's:

• They can carry bicycles more easily.
• They can carry more firewood, and other cargo (gas cans and generator…).
• They get lower mpg.
• They dont pull into Safeways as often, nor are as maneuverable.
• They can invite company into their trailers.
• When not towing, they have to drive a truck!

Hope this helps!

Charlie

[Jim Flower]

You have an excellent tow vehicle that is more than capable of towing your intended purchase. Just call Andy and arrange to have everything set up properly. Jim

[aircampr]

echo44,

More good advice to call Andy.

The weight distribution hitch will not reduce the tongue weight on the hitch. It will add a "moment load" at the hitch, which re-distributes the tongue weight between the front and rear axels. Assuming the structure of the car body and or frame can cope with these increased loads, the redistributed axel loads help the tires and suspension. In cars/trucks without self leveling suspension, this redistribution also gets the TV closer to level, for better suspension geometry and comfort.

[echo44]

thanks everyone!!
I will call Andy to get some advice!
I also looked at the specs of the clouds another option is the 23' with front bedroom which has a significantly lower tongue weight.

[Doglady]

I wouldn't think you would be carrying water with you, usually you fill up when you get to your campsite? So that would free up some weight. As far as the land rover towing, we have an LR3 and won't tow with it all. We did a lot of research and we found a lot of people stating that it will tow it....but, it will cause damage to the LR, not sure how true that is. We just decided to use my husbands truck instead. And, the issue we heard most about was the hitch isn't great. Good luck.

[aircampr]

Spend some time inside the trailers at a dealer or a rally. Visualize yourself living/camping there, and where you will put stuff. Looking at spec's, we thought we wanted a 16' until standing inside and considered storage needs... then we got the 19'.

[aircampr]

Another consideration is tank sizes. Larger trailers carry more water and have larger black and gray tanks. This is likely to be the determinant for how many nights you can last without hookups. Search these fora for many posts on the topics of choosing the right trailer...