Newbie New Year Question: SUV vs. Truck for FC 25

[cegardner]

We purchased a 2015 FB twin flying could and the tow vehicle was a 2015 expedition with towhaul and air suspension. We discovered that pulling the AS was doable, the weight of the hitch far exceeded the specs. The FBs are hitch heavy. Even with our weight distrubtion hitch we were concened about the 1100 lbs on the hitch. We also noticed that the towhaul did manage hills up and down, it was slow going. We agonized for months and went with a larger capacity tow vehicle. We also wanted more options should we upgrade the AS to a classic. We went with a 350 diesel king ranch and took off for 9200 miles and again another 5000 this summer. We were on mountians long hauls.
Here us the result. Our set up for hitch was a perfect transfer. My husband turns on the tow haul and the truck did the driving. Mountains, curves, hills. Never noticed them. Hubby said the driving was a dream. Others will say it was a tow vehicle larger than needed. We will never look back. A dream in towing, safety in stopping, we will never have to purchase a different TV. The interior is a dream and comfortable. But as we learned from extensive reading 1. People like different things 2. You can under buy TV capabilities and you will have fatigue of vehicle and unit. 3. The hitch weight on FB is concerning and your unit needs to handle 1000-1200 lbs. 4. We all have advice. Do your homework to have safety in towing.

[cando]

If you have to have a GM vehicle for towing the pickup trucks can be had with a max tow package that can be had with either the 5.3 or 6.2 lite V8. Go with the 6.2 engine even though it requires premium fuel. We towed our 25' with first a 8.1 Chevy crew cab short box truck. When it wasn't in being repaired weekly it did well pulling the trailer and all our gear--including the generator and extra gasoline and the propane campfire and grill and we didn't have to smell any fumes as it was all stored under our ARE cap. We moved on and yet have the same trailer but are on our second Toyota Tundra. The two Tundra have had a total of 220,000 miles In the past 10 years with nothing but oil changes and a set of tires each. We put the bikes (full sized) in the back seat of the truck, the kayaks on the ARE cap with the hully rollers and off we go--all the rest of the stuff goes in the back of the truck. I am starting to look for my next truck--and I think there are some out there that will tow better than the Toyota but I can't imagine any more trouble free. If I waned a suv i think I would go for the longer wheelbase for towing. The Tundra have made it up all the same mountains the big block GM could with better fuel economy and the leather interior gave nothingaway to the Suburban--but now with the Suburban. In the $60--70 thousand dollar range do you really want to carry wood, gasoline, a generator and sometimes muddy toys inside there with you?

[m.hony]

Crew cab pickup with a tonneau or cap-

[rbaldwin]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Whatever you do, don't drive a 2017 Ford F150 or it will mess up your decision making process .

Yes sir, I believe my TV decision process is, as you say, now fairly "messed-up." But, that's quite alright! The substantial evidentiary input from the AS community to my recent post suggests many good reasons/rationale why an SUV might lack the practicality/flexibility of a PU. As one gentleman said, the thought of "needing to store the generator in the shower" while towing with a high end Denali SUV really got my attention along with potential "fuel odor" and "mud" in the vehicle, and etc. So, I'm re-tooling my thinking. I looked at a Platium F-150 today. Why do you prefer the 2017 Ford over the Sierra or Silverado!? (My end goals are tow stability, safety technology, luxury, and vehicle reliability). Thanks, all!

[Elvis1]

I had a Tahoe LTZ with the 5.3L, worst tow vehicle ever! Every time I got to an overpass it would downshift and rev to oblivion sounding like the motor was going to come apart. The rear sagged even though it had "level ride" (yes I know I probably should have used weight distribution). All this with my 19' Bambi. Ohh and struggled to get 10.5mpg. Got rid of it, got a Range Rover Supercharged, couldn't be happier, no drama, relaxed towing at 70mph (80 in SD) no need for weight distribution hitch, 14mpg while towing. It's not even in the same ballpark as the Tahoe. Both are rated for 7,700lbs max towing. My 19' Bambi is nowhere near that.

[pappy19]

The Ford F150 has been the number 1 selling vehicle sold in America for many years. There is a reason for this and it has to do with the mirid of options available and consistent reliability. Plus, would you trust a company, GM, where the majority stock holder is the federal government? The feds still own 61% of GM stock.

[SeaLevel]

Originally Posted by pappy19

Plus, would you trust a company, GM, where the majority stock holder is the federal government? The feds still own 61% of GM stock.

The government sold the last of it's shares in December 2013. Just so you know.

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by SeaLevel

The government sold the last of it's shares in December 2013. Just so you know.

I took a chance and bought our 2008 GMC truck new of the lot right at the time when it was up in the air as to whether there would be a bail-out for GM or not!

I realised I was taking a chance in the sense of wondering if I would have any warranty or not and what the resale value might be if GM shut its doors - but I sure was able to get a huge discount off the sticker price!

Luckily all turned out well!

Brian.

[BillfromWI]

I'm the guy with the 25FB and 1,252 lb. tongue weight. I traded a 2013 F150 for a 2016 GMC Sierra 2500 Duramax. I imagine that the 2017 F150 is a world apart from the 2013 but if the aluminum body has not added substantially to its payload capacity it may not be able to meet your needs if you care about manufacturer's specifications.

Here is an earlier post from me to another thread about my about my saga:

We have a 2014 FC25FB twin with solar. The tongue weight with empty holding tanks, some water, some propane, and clothing for Louisiana in March on the Airstream scale in Jackson Center was 1252 lbs.

This was way heavier than I expected when I bought my first tow vehicle, a 2013 F150 3.5 Ecoboost, 4x4, 144” wheel base, max tow (3.73 axle ratio), and max payload.

Typical cargo: aluminum bed cap--no windows, 1000 lb. capacity aluminum bed slide, tools, camp stove, gas grill, chairs, two bikes, sometimes two Yamaha 2000 generators, and of course the hitch and people.

The Ford had plenty of power and got about the mileage others have mentioned; less than 14 towing, usually less than 12. I didn’t drive it much otherwise but it was very comfortable.

But after the surprise tongue weight I got serious about weights and capacities. With an Andersen hitch it was over loaded from receiver (1150 lb capacity) to tires, to axle. With a Blue Ox with 1500 lb. bars I could get it to 150 lb. over on the axle but of course the receiver was still overloaded and the truck and trailer ride was very rough which concerned me.

I gave up on the Ford and bought a 2016 GMC 2500 Duramax. I installed the Andersen and went back to the scales—all good.

The GMC is as comfortable as the Ford, probably more comfortable towing, will get better mileage after it is entirely broken in, and it just amazing in the mountains—descending speed control must be experienced to be believed. We just returned from 11,500 miles to Alaska and back. The truck was great and based on the mileage improvement along the way I expect 16 mpg towing in calm winds. But I don’t expect to ever recover the $8K cost of the diesel in fuel savings. I’m glad I switched and sorry I didn’t start with it.

The foot print of the GMC is almost exactly the same as the Ford but the turning circle is somewhat greater. I don’t think either of them would be great daily drivers; they are large vehicles, but I don’t have to do that. The F150 is not as tall as the 2500 and would probably be easier to live with on a daily basis but you would never regret a “3/4 ton” class vehicle when towing.

Be aware of payload/cargo capacity, turning circle, and fuel tank size. Be conservative in your cargo weight estimate and don’t forget the weight of the hitch.

Good luck!

[dkottum]

We would never put up with a larger, heavier truck to pull our Airstream, the one we have does the job beautifully. However, if we did have a larger, heavier truck we would never put up with the crimped interior space of an Airstream.

As it is, we are extremely pleased with the very well matched combination we have.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by rbaldwin

Yes sir, I believe my TV decision process is, as you say, now fairly "messed-up." But, that's quite alright! The substantial evidentiary input from the AS community to my recent post suggests many good reasons/rationale why an SUV might lack the practicality/flexibility of a PU. As one gentleman said, the thought of "needing to store the generator in the shower" while towing with a high end Denali SUV really got my attention along with potential "fuel odor" and "mud" in the vehicle, and etc. So, I'm re-tooling my thinking. I looked at a Platium F-150 today. Why do you prefer the 2017 Ford over the Sierra or Silverado!? (My end goals are tow stability, safety technology, luxury, and vehicle reliability). Thanks, all!

I can tell you the F150 EB, Platinum, has been a great truck for us over the past 5 years and 100K+ miles. I do like the new GM 6.2 with 8 speed also, but Ford offers a few nice features not available with comparably equipped GM models. The retractable running boards, 36 gal fuel tank, folding step in tailgate, just to name a few. (wife talked me into the Platinum when she saw the folding running boards!) Those little things are quite nice if you have them. GM did not offer those features. I am waiting until spring before I make a decision on next TV. Both trucks are nice rides!

[AirstreamCSH]

We are in a similar quandary having just purchased a 2016 25FB expecting to tow with a Toyota Sequoia. Having owned Suburbans, Yukons and rented several Expeditions, we chose our 2014 Sequoia for its problem free reputation and can say that it is hands down the best of all the big SUV's in terms of quality and ownership costs. Upgraded tires, oil changes and rotations are all that this has needed up until last week when we put in new brake pads and rotors at 65,000 miles.

So it was with very heavy heart that we concluded it wasn't up to the task due to all the comments you see posted here. Of course that was only after watching the video that comes with the new airstream and reading truck and RV blogs about people's experiences with real life weight experiences that we realized we had a tongue weight problem if not an approaching max cargo and GCCW problem as well. This is with an excellent Equalizer hitch, 4x4, tow haul mode with sway control and a big 5.7 gas engine riding on 13.9" brakes.

The other thing that put us over the top was reading the Mountain Directory West book showing the locations and descriptions of many of the grades we will be taking this summer. It is one thing to go slowly up a mountain pass, it's quite another to be pushed down it for miles at grade with family and pets behind your seat. If that brake controller fails, the electric trailer brake system fails, the trailer batteries got too deeply discharged at the campground to hold on a decent, you let the distilled water evaporate and the battery dies, or if you just didn't get a good 7way connection because it was dark, rainy or cold and you hurried through it; doesn't matter how or why, then the Tow vehicle engine and wheel braking capacity is the only thing stopping the combined rig.

So, we have been shopping for either an F250 or a 2500 having ruled out the Dodge for other reasons. A quick showing of the numbers shows that the F150 has the same cargo carrying problem as the Sequoia meaning we needed a Super duty platform. As others have posted here, we quickly realized that the diesel makes sense for its engine braking and no problem driving or maintaining sway when passed by a double FedEx trailer doing 80.

We didn't factor the cost of a new TV into the trailer mix so we really don't want to do this. An SUV makes much more sense from a comfort standpoint but no sense when you factor in things you don't think about at the dealership. Generators (twin 2000's or single 4000) have to go somewhere, fuel for same unless using front LP tanks, chocks, heavy & messy umbilical cables, water hoses that need to be bagged, dog crates, dog food, spare water for the national park dry camping, perhaps some chairs and so on. Oh, did anyone tell you the clean and dirty water hoses and the long electric cables need to be bagged because they get filthy and all have to go somewhere? To say nothing of he second slinky you'll need because the discharges aren't always within reach of one. I don't want to put this in my SUV or the outside compartment that is exposed directly under my bed.

I wish I had seen this thread weeks ago because it would have saved me a dozen hours of research but perhaps had I just read what was in this post without the research, I wouldn't have agreed with it so strongly. After checking out the rear seats in both the GM and Ford, The Ford comes out ahead and closest to the Sequoia. Plus the Ford doesn't have the short middle rear seat problem the Dodge and GM does. In fact, for all measurements except being able to lean back, the F250 exceeds the dimensions of the Sequoia. So I'm off to get a 250 diesel somewhere with a Leer raised hump shell into which I plan to install a vintage air A/C to keep the dogs cool. But that's for another post.

[kscherzi]

The big heavy duty trucks do have slightly larger brakes than half tons, but those trucks are also thousands of pounds heavier. I suspect much of that additional brake capacity is mostly used by the heavy truck to stop itself.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Airstream Forums mobile app

[dkottum]

To comment on a couple of recent remarks on braking.

The trailer braking system does not get its power from the trailer batteries, power comes from the tow vehicle. The batteries apply power to the trailer brakes only when the hitch system breaks and the trailer is torn loose from the tow vehicle.

This is aways debatable, but my conclusion is towing with a truck that may weigh 2000 lbs more and carry 500-1000 lbs more load needs larger brakes just to stop itself. There is little advantage, and the exhaust brake has been added in recent years because the heavy diesel truck needs it, remembering that any engine braking is unsafe on slippery road surfaces when towing.

We travel with the Mountain Directory. It can be useful in route planning, especially when weather conditions are less than ideal. It can also be useful to plan a different route for those unfamiliar with mountain descents. When starting towing our first travel trailer, we experienced being propelled downhill like a rocket ship and I don't care to do it again. However I don't believe a heavier truck is the best solution.

Many of us have questioned the best way to handle mountain descents. We have three braking systems available to us, truck service brakes, trailer service brakes, and engine braking (compression and/or exhaust). I think the truck service brakes are the most reliable so I have learned to use the engine braking and manually controlled trailer service brakes as needed to hold speed on descents. If those systems are inadequate or fail, the truck's service brakes are all we have left. It is good that they are fresh, cool and fully functional, and if we are smart enough to hold our speed down, they are quite capable of stopping the rig if we have to. This method comes from a relative who has a business of delivering travel trailers, park models, and mobile homes throughout the Southwest.

And on the issue of sway. Hensley/ProPride hitches are available, they provide absolutely rock solid sway resistance and stability for all types of tow vehicles, large and small.

[DC Bruce]

A personal experience note about trailer battery powering the trailer brakes: in my experience, a dead trailer battery will mean you have NO trailer brakes (2015 FC 27). Last winter, we dropped the trailer off in the one "open" RV campground at Yosemite while we stayed in the lodge there. We left the heat on at the lowest setting. Unfortunately, because of road conditions, the campground was more than an hour's drive from the lodge. So our plan for me to top off the battery with a generator was unrealistic. After a few days, the furnace had exhausted the battery, as we found out when we hitched up to go. We also discovered that the trailer brakes were inoperable. After about 1/2 hour of driving at 20 mph, either the truck had put enough charge on the batteries or they had warmed up enough that trailer brakes started working again. Since we didn't discover the non-working trailer brakes until we had hitched up and were down the road, it was kind of hard to pull over, drag out the generator and put a charge on the batteries. But that's what we should have done.

[m.hony]

The trailer brakes are not powered by the house batteries in the trailer.
The trailer brakes are powered through the tow vehicle trailer plug and trailer's umbilical cord.
The house batteries do, however, control the emergency break away brake.

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by AirstreamCSH

We are in a similar quandary having just purchased a 2016 25FB expecting to tow with a Toyota Sequoia. ... So it was with very heavy heart that we concluded it wasn't up to the task due to all the comments you see posted here.

Huh???

My trailer weighs a ton more than your 25FB, and I'm towing with a Sequoia. Within the last 6 mos we towed over 7,000 miles.

We had no trouble descending steep mountain passes. With the tow/haul engaged, we downshifted before beginning descent, and easily and calmly eased down the mountains. No white knuckles here. Seldom even touched the brakes.

Sure, a large diesel has more torque, and can reach the summit faster. But the smaller diesels like the Ram EcoDiesel has only 5% more torque but 60% less horsepower than your Sequoia. Unless you are in a hurry, the Sequoia will get you there in plenty time.

Send me a PM. I'm very happy to tell our experience in detail if you want to hear it all. The Sequoia has been an excellent choice for us. Ask anything.

[n2916s]

Towed my 31' Sovereign 70000 miles over ten years with a 2004 Nissan Titan pickup which I believe is a less capable tow vehicle than your Sequoia.

I would try it before I traded for something bigger. I think you have an excellent TV.

[m.hony]

I tow with my Tundra because I already owned the Tundra before I had the first travel trailer.
The OP seems to be choosing between buying a Yukon or a Tahoe.
What type of vehicle does the OP currently own?

[AirstreamCSH]

It hinges on the numbers. Sequoia has a 7100 tow capacity, 14,000 combined rating and 960 tongue rating. With both the Sequoia and 25FB rated at 7300 GWVR max, I'm already short by 300lbs on tow capacity, 600 lbs on combined and at least 100lbs on tongue.

Love my Sequoia but if I put 4 people in it along with generator, gear & water as described by posts on this website would quickly lead to me being overweight. The truck itself only has 1,250 cargo capacity before he equalizer hitch and the trailer only has 1,500 of food, water, waste & gear before that is overloaded.

Am I missing something?