F-150 Diesel? Not so fast!

[Glenn T]

Originally Posted by ForestStranger

We ordered the F150 3.5L gas. The $9K premium for a Ford 150 diesel, with small fuel tank, well, that was the clincher.

I test drove an F150 3.5L gas in February, and really liked it. When I asked about the Diesel option, the dealer said that when they become available, they would be charging $5,000 to $8,000 above sticker price due to pent-up demand.

Also, the dealer advised against buying an engine in its first year of availability. He claimed that the 3.5L had problems six years ago when it was first released, "...but of course Ford took care of everyone".

[davidrrand]

Also Frank, my statement about a larger tank in a diesel 250 was incorrect as to payload, as your truck confirms with a payload of 2300 lbs. and a medium size fuel tank. I remember when you first got your truck and for some reason I thought it was a Super Crew. That explains your higher payload. I have the same benefit in my F150 Lariat Super Cab with payload of 2031 lbs. (door sticker). Payloads are reduced in Crews.

Dave

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Hans627

Not having a larger capacity fuel tank is not easy to understand. Hopefully that may be corrected in the future.



Is the issue of freezing DEF common on all modern diesels?

80% of 26 is close enough to 21. For planning purposes, use 80%. That many gallons of fuel at 16-mpg is 360-miles. Thats twice as far as we went thirty, forty, fifty years ago. On the same amount of fuel.

Are you really going to fill up twice in a day? If so, how many times per year does this occur?

I don’t see a penalty.

AND, plan the fuel stop in advance. The night before, preferably:

-Major diesel retailer.
Away from major metro.
Directly on Interstate.
Same direction of travel.

Don’t try to save pennies on chasing price. Modify solo use for that savings. (Record all gallons and all miles; the average is what matters).

Choosing the retailer at the last moment is just bad (or lack) of planning. It’s a minimum.

Payload? That’s laughable.

What is the weight of the gear which MUST be carried in the bed? Can’t be carried in TT or pass compartment of TV.

Why does no one ever answer this question? Lazy, and ego says, “I gotta have a truck!!” Is that it?

An 1,100-lb TW works out like this:

850-lbs on TV after WD.

That’s 425-lbs per axle. Minivan, sedan and SUV territory. Not a strain. Doesn’t wear it out prematurely, etc. (Or do any of you NOT trade before 15-Years and/or 300k miles?).

You want to dispute it then take that current TV and weigh it empty. And weigh it with the junk you carry. On a segmented scale.

“Payload” will go nearly all to the rear axle. A WD hitch loads BOTH axles.

“Payload” is pretty well meaningless.

In all of this the vacation travel accounts for maybe a third of all miles.

“How To Specify a Vehicle” doesn’t arise from reading advertising copy or colorful brochures. It sure as hell has little to do with the minor vehicle use (towing) over the major use of safe family transportation.

Who needs a truck? Got IRS applicable miles (I thought not). Don’t need it then. Want and need aren’t the same.

A half ton trumps a one ton every time with these trailers. Any of them.

As an SUV with still better weight distribution, suspension sophistication, braking and handling beat pickups.

26-gals with a high mpg pickup? Non-issue

Problems with DEF? Non-issue for the 90% + of millions of vehicles already so equipped.

As to THIS pickup? Demonstrate the NEED for the compromised safety of a pickup, first.

SHOW the projected fuel savings over the months and miles of ownership will PAY.

That’s a start. Next is steering against comparable, etc. A long list.

You want a crappy rig, put a pickup out front. How it’s equipped is no different than paint color. Without meaning.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Florida 55

My experience with a Ford diesel (2011 F-250 with 6.7 power stroke) may have some relevance.

Fuel capacity. We have found the 26 gallon fuel capacity to be limiting. While we usually stop every 1 1/2 to 2 hours to stretch our legs and refuel, there have been a few instances in remote western locations where fuel stations are 50 miles or more apart where we've been caught with under 50 miles to go per the truck computer. As a result we carry extra diesel fuel in a jug in the bed of the truck. Had we realized this limitation when we purchased the truck (our first towing pickup) we would have bought another brand with a larger tank.

DEF. The Ford DEF tank has a capacity of 5 gallons. The truck's computer puts a warning on the instrument panel when the DEF tank is "under 1/2 full". Many stores (i.e. Wal-Mart) sell a 2 1/2 gallon container of DEF. I refill my DEF tank when the "under 1/2 full" warning comes up. There is always spill over from a 2 1/2 gallon refill container so if you fill up when the warning appears on your dashboard, expect to overfill the tank.

Also, I have replaced two DEF tank heaters on my truck to the tune of over $800 each time. If you read the Ford truck forums you will see this is a frequent problem with the Ford diesels, which my dealer confirmed the last time the problem occurred. Two DEF heaters in 80,000 miles seems excessive to me, but not to Ford. Even though DEF is required for emissions control, Ford does not cover the DEF heater under the emissions warranty.

I will never buy a diesel truck with a 26 gallon tank again. The next time (likely 2019) I buy a new diesel truck, my poor experience with Ford's DEF system will be a factor as well as some of the other very expensive repairs I've experienced with my Ford SuperDuty diesel, including fumes from the engine entering the cab. Needless to say, I will be taking a very hard look at GM and Ram.

As to the aftermarket 50 gallon Titan fuel tank, I didn't trust Ford to honor my warranty if the tank wasn't installed by a dealer. After exploring the possibility of my dealer installing the tank, I found the price quoted outrageous (versus independent shops) and in the end I didn't trust the dealer to do it right. One of the requirements is to install the sending unit at a certain torque and then recheck the torque 30 minutes later before continuing the installation. I have zero confidence my dealer service department will check the torque, much less wait 30 minutes and check again before continuing the installation. Returning to have sloppy $120 per hour work redone makes one skeptical.

Before buying the first year of any new Ford diesel engine (I have the first year of the 6.7) I suggest reading the Powerstroke and Ford truck forums about the valve and glow plug breaking problems on the early 6.7 engines and Ford's resistance to working the owners. Ford changed the "soft" valves in the early production engines, and issued a TSB (not a recall) knowing they were breaking, yet held a hard line on warranty claims.

My 2017 F-250 has a 7.5 gal DEF tank and 34 GL Fuel tank and it runs like a Swiss watch.

[Florida 55]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

My 2017 F-250 has a 7.5 gal DEF tank and 34 GL Fuel tank and it runs like a Swiss watch.

I'm glad your new Ford Superduty is working well for you. I know several recent model Superduty owners who are happy. Unfortunately not every vehicle that comes off the assembly line is well built, particularly during the first year. How a manufacturer treats the customers who have vehicles with known defects, particularly in the first year of a vehicle when the kinks are being worked out says a lot about the company. Unfortunately my experience, and the experience of many Ford truck owners, has been that Ford takes a hard line with its customers when they are faced with premature parts failures that relate to documented design or quality defects. I hope you will continue to enjoy your vehicle and won't be faced with some of the issues others have experienced with Ford.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Florida 55

I'm glad your new Ford Superduty is working well for you. I know several recent model Superduty owners who are happy. Unfortunately not every vehicle that comes off the assembly line is well built, particularly during the first year. How a manufacturer treats the customers who have vehicles with known defects, particularly in the first year of a vehicle when the kinks are being worked out says a lot about the company. Unfortunately my experience, and the experience of many Ford truck owners, has been that Ford takes a hard line with its customers when they are faced with premature parts failures that relate to documented design or quality defects. I hope you will continue to enjoy your vehicle and won't be faced with some of the issues others have experienced with Ford.

After reading all these ford posts, I’m sure glad I bought another ram....

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

After reading all these ford posts, I’m sure glad I bought another ram....

Oh boy nothing like throwing gas on an open fire..........

[sbowman]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

My 2017 F-250 has a 7.5 gal DEF tank and 34 GL Fuel tank and it runs like a Swiss watch.

Our 2016 RAM runs like a Rolex at cost of a Timex.............

Best regards and safe travels

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by sbowman

Our 2016 RAM runs like a Rolex at cost of a Timex.............

Best regards and safe travels

And pulls like a Terex.

Google those earth movers and bulldozers.

[jcl]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

And pulls like a Terex.

Google those earth movers and bulldozers.

When you do, make sure to read how Terex sold off all of those earth mover, bulldozer, and mining truck businesses. You can still get a Terex crane or concrete mixer truck. And those can be spec'd with Cummins engines. Don't know how they pull, though.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by jcl

When you do, make sure to read how Terex sold off all of those earth mover, bulldozer, and mining truck businesses. You can still get a Terex crane or concrete mixer truck. And those can be spec'd with Cummins engines. Don't know how they pull, though.

Way better than the old out dated Detroit’s...........I have run the both...

[Steve & Mary]

Ford provides larger fuel tank options when you go with the long bed vs. the short bed for the F-250 6.7 Power Stroke. It comes down to how much truck length you feel comfortable with. When I purchased my F-250 new in 2012 I took one look under the hood and decided on purchase of the extended warranty. First time ever. I have used my warranty several times but nothing major. I guess the most costly would have been the DEF heater failure which has been mentioned here already. My Titan 50 gallon tank has never impacted my warranty with my local Ford dealer. I also installed my Titan tank myself but I realize not everyone will take on such a task.

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Florida 55

I'm glad your new Ford Superduty is working well for you. I know several recent model Superduty owners who are happy. Unfortunately not every vehicle that comes off the assembly line is well built, particularly during the first year. How a manufacturer treats the customers who have vehicles with known defects, particularly in the first year of a vehicle when the kinks are being worked out says a lot about the company. Unfortunately my experience, and the experience of many Ford truck owners, has been that Ford takes a hard line with its customers when they are faced with premature parts failures that relate to documented design or quality defects. I hope you will continue to enjoy your vehicle and won't be faced with some of the issues others have experienced with Ford.

We have been running Ford Pick Ups and SUVs for 25 years. V-10 gas and Diesels and the rest. My previous pick up was a 2012 Ecco boost with the only warranty issue was a malfunctioning screen a great machine. All the rest never had any warranty issues and were very reliable. I am still using a 1998 Explorer that I never needed anything more than new tires and batteries.
Prior to the Fords we were running Rams 3/4 and 1/20 tons. They were unreliable and a constant headache. We couldn't get rid of them fast enough. With that said I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of the more recent years. Since we have a long and satisfactory relationship with Ford products and dealership there is no compelling reason for me to consider something else.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Steve & Mary

Ford provides larger fuel tank options when you go with the long bed vs. the short bed for the F-250 6.7 Power Stroke. It comes down to how much truck length you feel comfortable with. When I purchased my F-250 new in 2012 I took one look under the hood and decided on purchase of the extended warranty. First time ever. I have used my warranty several times but nothing major. I guess the most costly would have been the DEF heater failure which has been mentioned here already. My Titan 50 gallon tank has never impacted my warranty with my local Ford dealer. I also installed my Titan tank myself but I realize not everyone will take on such a task.

Yep them fords do need bigger fuel tanks.....

[VernDiesel]

Back to OP I tow with the 3.0 liter Ram Econodiesel. Granted I have a tune to help with economy, cleanliness for longevity, & the addition of a turbo brake. That said it also has the small 26 gallon tank to make room for the DEF tank. Fuel economy between the two trucks should be very similar.

Transporting an AS at 65 mph going from plum full to empty I normally get 400 miles. I wish it had a larger tank but it’s never been a problem. Unloaded I’ve had tanks go 700 miles. I was told the coming Ford like the ED fills the DEF at the fuel tank fill so no more climbing under the hood like with the Duramax. I fill at the truck stop when getting diesel as it’s cheaper & more convenient. Mine would go 8,000 miles on a tank of DEF.

The lil diesels won’t tow as much as the larger Dmax but will still tow your AS with quiet smooth diesel ease. Gone are the days of loud rattle diesels. Not dealing with the harsher riding heavier HD for day to day driving is another plus. You might have to fight your wife for the keys. Best on whatever you decide.

[tjdonahoe]

I will stick with my ram and 6.7....... there is no such thing as too much horsepower or too much money...and it will do it easier

[RandyNH]

So TFLtruck took one out on their Ike gauntlet test and ended up with something interesting, repeatable, findings on the downhill section. Maybe not such a rush purchase...

VIDEO

[Daquenzer]

3.0 diesel, 3.5 Ecoboost, 6.2 liter V8 gas, 6.7 liter diesel. These are 4 engines that are commonly in TVs. I have an F150 Ecoboost pulling 28’ AS. Works great. The F150 diesel costs more and pulls less. Not sure why I would want to buy it. The F250 6.2 V8 pulls more than F150 Ecoboost, is gas, and has more payload.

So if the issue is payload and not pulling capacity why buy a diesel? Get F250 gas. Way cheaper.

Now if the issue is pulling capacity and payload then a diesel may be the way to go. But the difference in pulling capacity from an F250 gas to diesel is about 2,600lbs. And you go from being able to pull 12,400 to 15,000lbs. What AS weighs that much? NONE. And remember people have been pulling AS’s for a long time without diesels. In fact you look at those old pictures and most are pulling with sedans. Of course those sedans probably had big V8 gas engines.

Yes the diesel has the coveted engine break. Necessary? No. Nice? Yes.

So if you want to get an F150 diesel and it has the capacity I would just get it. You’ll be fine. But don’t get it because it is an especially good tow vehicle. The Ecoboost actually has more horsepower and torque. The advantage may be the fact it gets 30mpg when not towing! Think about your driving and towing experience. How much are you going to actually tow the AS?

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Daquenzer

3.0 diesel, 3.5 Ecoboost, 6.2 liter V8 gas, 6.7 liter diesel. These are 4 engines that are commonly in TVs. I have an F150 Ecoboost pulling 28’ AS. Works great. The F150 diesel costs more and pulls less. Not sure why I would want to buy it. The F250 6.2 V8 pulls more than F150 Ecoboost, is gas, and has more payload.

So if the issue is payload and not pulling capacity why buy a diesel? Get F250 gas. Way cheaper.

Now if the issue is pulling capacity and payload then a diesel may be the way to go. But the difference in pulling capacity from an F250 gas to diesel is about 2,600lbs. And you go from being able to pull 12,400 to 15,000lbs. What AS weighs that much? NONE. And remember people have been pulling AS’s for a long time without diesels. In fact you look at those old pictures and most are pulling with sedans. Of course those sedans probably had big V8 gas engines.

Yes the diesel has the coveted engine break. Necessary? No. Nice? Yes.

So if you want to get an F150 diesel and it has the capacity I would just get it. You’ll be fine. But don’t get it because it is an especially good tow vehicle. The Ecoboost actually has more horsepower and torque. The advantage may be the fact it gets 30mpg when not towing! Think about your driving and towing experience. How much are you going to actually tow the AS?

We like the 6.7 diesel...in a Ram...we typically travel 11,000 miles/ year for the past 9 years....with the 13 31’ Classic , we are grossing 17,000 lbs....them old as ‘s were a bunch lighter....

[Rasengan]

what would be a good TV if one wanted to focus on fuel efficiency while towing, say, a 23 or 25?