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Old 04-01-2018, 11:40 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by BillfromWI View Post
The 2016 F250 Powerstroke Supercab Standard box was only available with a 26 gallon tank and there was no aftermarket option that I could find--nothing larger would fit under the truck unless one was willing to replace the spare with a fuel tank. I bought a GMC.
FYI, the F-250 Diesel Supercab with the short 5.5' box comes with the 26 gal tank. If you get it with 6.9' box you get a 34 gal tank. The 34 gal tank gives me regularly about a 360 to 370 mile range with plenty of reserve. Its nothing to brag about but is is more than adequate for my bladder. That's over 5 hours and there is no way can I or the dogs sit that long without a break.
I had the short box on our F-150 and having the extra foot made a whole lot of difference for me.
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Old 04-01-2018, 11:46 AM   #22
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I have had the Ford Powerstroke 6.7 and currently own the RAM Cummins 6.7, of course both use DEF. The same warning exists in the RAM manual : "If the tank is overfilled and freezes, it could be damaged. Therefore, do not overfill the DEF tank". But RAM does not ding you on a warranty if you mess up. All modern diesels have to heed this warning. But it is easily managed. If this is an issue for you to change your mind from a diesel to a gasser, then you really didn't need a diesel in the first place.

I live in Michigan and have run both the Powerstroke and Cummins, with DEF, with temperatures at or below -15F. I have never had an issue. But, I also have always never filled the DEF tanks above 2/3 full as to not have a freeze breakage issue on the filler necks of the DEF tanks. The RAM is easier to manage since it has an actual DEF gauge similar to a gas gauge. At extreme temps I just wait till the DEF tank gets low and then add a 2.5 gallons jug of DEF. On the RAM 6.7 thats good for about 4,000 miles (no towing) before I would have to add another 2.5 gals. The 6.7 Powerstroke uses more DEF for the same operation conditions as the Cummins. So plan accordingly.

As far as Ford's 26 gal tank. My Powerstroke 6.7 had the same issue as you point out on the diesel F-150. On the Powerstoke 26 gal tank..it was clear they made the tank smaller to install the 5 gal DEF tank. That was a pisser. RAM did not reduce the fuel tank size and made room else where for the the DEF tank.
My Ford 250 Diesel has both a DEF gauge and a warning system telling how much DEF I have at any time.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:14 PM   #23
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Shortest bed in a SuperDuty is 6.75’. If they put a larger tank in 250, payload would probably be less than a ton.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:15 PM   #24
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Speaking of diesel 250 only.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:30 PM   #25
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Is the issue of freezing DEF common on all modern diesels?
Yes, my 2017 Nissan Titan XD has the same warning. It's only a concern if you overfill the DEF tank.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:44 PM   #26
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If you considered diesel with a larger tank but didn't want a larger engine, consider the Nissan Titan XD with 5 litre Cummins engine. I have two friends who love theirs. They get great mileage on the highway even when towing their small trailers.
I just bought a Nissan Titan XD with the 5 liter Cummins last Wednesday. Drove 4 hours on the highway, completely unloaded, and got 21.8 mpg. No hills, just I-55 from St. Louis to Chicago.

Going to Michigan this week to pick up the Airstream from winter storage - will post back with mileage.

Love the truck, but the Nissan only has a 25 gallon tank. There is, however, an aftermarket tank available that's 50 gallons, but it's around $2,000...
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:46 PM   #27
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Diesel is also heavier than gasoline. Close to one pound per gallon. A minor payload hit.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:57 PM   #28
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I'm not up to speed on the F-150 diesel but I would think Titan would address the fuel tank size issue the same as they did on the F-250 6.7 Powerstroke. I also installed the Titan 50 gallon replacement tank on our 2012 shortly after purchase. It comes in handy when towing. When not...I show around 900 miles to empty when topping off the tank.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ForestStranger View Post
We thought about the diesel, but decided to go with the 3.5L ecoboost with max tow option. The diesel engine premium price is too much, in my opinion. Then consider asking your dealer how much an oil change will be, and how often. Be prepared for $150+ for synthetic oil and filters. Then there is the oil/water fuel separator filter. Then DEF, which is not that big of a deal at ~$10 for 2.5 gallons.

We have a first-year Jeep GC diesel. Many 'break-in' issues with the NOX injection system, diesel particulate filter and such. Oil changes… $160 each, every 10K, but usually do them at 5K. If you do them yourself, you may void the warranty. Had $11,000 worth of emissions work done at 70K miles, luckily warranty. Plus Fiat is in litigation with EPA and Cal EPA on possible emissions issues, or at least false advertising. That said, when we haul our 5,000 pound trailer we get 16.5mpg. Without the trailer the 4x4 gets 28mpg most of the time.
My experience exactly with our 2014 Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel. Other than the the VERY disappointing emissions problems it has been a terrific daily driver AND 40,000+ miles towing across the continent twice our 23 FB (103,000 miles total). Payload is the only complaint. We had two Jetta TDIs passed down to our kids - they did very well with the VW buy backs. I am considering a F-150 to increase payoad capacity but waiting to see how EPA and FCA settle the issue.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:23 AM   #30
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I don’t think the diesel F150 is meant for towing. Sure, one can tow with it, but there is limited payload, and no exhaust brake. With the limited retardation of the diesel it will be slower down hills. The diesel F150 also has only 2/3 the hp of the Ecoboost, and less torque. I think the diesel is offered in the F150 for the EPA highway fuel economy rating, running empty. For towing, the diesel is a downgrade from the Ecoboost.
I think you may be right on the 150 diesel, although I don't know if the Max tow option will be available (without the 36 gallon tank). The F150 3.5L gas with max tow is rated at 13,100 pound trailer tow capacity. More than enough for a mid-size Airstream.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:35 AM   #31
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My experience exactly with our 2014 Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel. Other than the the VERY disappointing emissions problems it has been a terrific daily driver AND 40,000+ miles towing across the continent twice our 23 FB (103,000 miles total). Payload is the only complaint. We had two Jetta TDIs passed down to our kids - they did very well with the VW buy backs. I am considering a F-150 to increase payoad capacity but waiting to see how EPA and FCA settle the issue.
We ordered the F150 3.5L gas. The $9K premium for a Ford 150 diesel, with small fuel tank, well, that was the clincher. Dealer recommended stepping up to a 350 Cummins if we wanted diesel. No thanks, we've had it with diesel.

As for the FCA/EPA case, my guess is Feinstein will negotiate a deal where we get our $4,500 diesel premium back since the engine was marketed as eco-friendly, which apparently it was not! The last Court documents point to the 2014-2106 models getting the new 2017 Flash for emissions. The testing of the new Flash apparently reduces fuel economy and increases noise. Thanks, Fiat Chrysler…
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:53 AM   #32
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Yea! They added one. First gen 6.7 Powerstroke didn’t have a visual dash gauge. Only a buried digital menu of : Full, Less Than Half. Not too informative:-)
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:23 AM   #33
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Maybe Ford didn't want the almost 100lbs of extra tank and fuel to reduce payload, as 150's optioned up to the max can end up with sub 1,000 lb payload capacities; and the diesel engine weight alone is already significantly higher than gas models.

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Sidekick Tony
Thats the exact truth. I have a 2016 Nissan Titan XD Cummins 5.0 Diesel. Same situation, 26 gal fuel tank and no other options except after market 50 gallon. Weight is the reason for the small tank, also Nissan does not offer a sun roof in that model for the same reason.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:37 AM   #34
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[QUOTE=ForestStranger;2083393]We thought about the diesel, but decided to go with the 3.5L ecoboost with max tow option. The diesel engine premium price is too much, in my opinion. Then consider asking your dealer how much an oil change will be, and how often. Be prepared for $150+ for synthetic oil and filters. Then there is the oil/water fuel separator filter. Then DEF, which is not that big of a deal at ~$10 for 2.5 gallons.

Never have understood why one would go back to a dealer for any type of service other than recall's or warranty work?

12 qts. Rotella T-6 and WIX filter $85.00 every 7500 miles although Cummins say 15k or once a year. If you do not want to change your own, pay $25.00 at your local oil change shop. Agree the fuel filter and water separator is not cheep, $125.00 for both. However if you drain off the filters twice a year or more, you will not be changing these often. For the DEF 2.5 gallons between 4k to 5k or greater if not towing every day. Agree diesels are higher in cost, however taken care of and they will out live a gas rig 2 to 1 or better. Resale again 2 to 1 over a gas rig. Just my thought's, nothing more.

Best regards and safe travels
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:51 AM   #35
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Shortest bed in a SuperDuty is 6.75’. If they put a larger tank in 250, payload would probably be less than a ton.

Your post is incorrect and misleading. Please do the research of the Ford specs to be better informed.
Ford offers several combinations of wheelbases and yes you can get a short bed with the Diesel F-250. The wheelbase determines the tank size. They offer 29, 34 and 48 GL tanks. The wheelbase is determined by how you build the truck and the combinations are numerous. There are three different box sizes to choose from.
My F-250 diesel Lariat Super Cab with all the bells and whistles, 6.9 box came with the 34 GL tank and 2,300 lbs payload.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:03 AM   #36
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My experience with a Ford diesel (2011 F-250 with 6.7 power stroke) may have some relevance.

Fuel capacity. We have found the 26 gallon fuel capacity to be limiting. While we usually stop every 1 1/2 to 2 hours to stretch our legs and refuel, there have been a few instances in remote western locations where fuel stations are 50 miles or more apart where we've been caught with under 50 miles to go per the truck computer. As a result we carry extra diesel fuel in a jug in the bed of the truck. Had we realized this limitation when we purchased the truck (our first towing pickup) we would have bought another brand with a larger tank.

DEF. The Ford DEF tank has a capacity of 5 gallons. The truck's computer puts a warning on the instrument panel when the DEF tank is "under 1/2 full". Many stores (i.e. Wal-Mart) sell a 2 1/2 gallon container of DEF. I refill my DEF tank when the "under 1/2 full" warning comes up. There is always spill over from a 2 1/2 gallon refill container so if you fill up when the warning appears on your dashboard, expect to overfill the tank.

Also, I have replaced two DEF tank heaters on my truck to the tune of over $800 each time. If you read the Ford truck forums you will see this is a frequent problem with the Ford diesels, which my dealer confirmed the last time the problem occurred. Two DEF heaters in 80,000 miles seems excessive to me, but not to Ford. Even though DEF is required for emissions control, Ford does not cover the DEF heater under the emissions warranty.

I will never buy a diesel truck with a 26 gallon tank again. The next time (likely 2019) I buy a new diesel truck, my poor experience with Ford's DEF system will be a factor as well as some of the other very expensive repairs I've experienced with my Ford SuperDuty diesel, including fumes from the engine entering the cab. Needless to say, I will be taking a very hard look at GM and Ram.

As to the aftermarket 50 gallon Titan fuel tank, I didn't trust Ford to honor my warranty if the tank wasn't installed by a dealer. After exploring the possibility of my dealer installing the tank, I found the price quoted outrageous (versus independent shops) and in the end I didn't trust the dealer to do it right. One of the requirements is to install the sending unit at a certain torque and then recheck the torque 30 minutes later before continuing the installation. I have zero confidence my dealer service department will check the torque, much less wait 30 minutes and check again before continuing the installation. Returning to have sloppy $120 per hour work redone makes one skeptical.

Before buying the first year of any new Ford diesel engine (I have the first year of the 6.7) I suggest reading the Powerstroke and Ford truck forums about the valve and glow plug breaking problems on the early 6.7 engines and Ford's resistance to working the owners. Ford changed the "soft" valves in the early production engines, and issued a TSB (not a recall) knowing they were breaking, yet held a hard line on warranty claims.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:14 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Florida 55 View Post
My experience with a Ford diesel (2011 F-250 with 6.7 power stroke) may have some relevance.

Fuel capacity. We have found the 26 gallon fuel capacity to be limiting. While we usually stop every 1 1/2 to 2 hours to stretch our legs and refuel, there have been a few instances in remote western locations where fuel stations are 50 miles or more apart where we've been caught with under 50 miles to go per the truck computer. As a result we carry extra diesel fuel in a jug in the bed of the truck. Had we realized this limitation when we purchased the truck (our first towing pickup) we would have bought another brand with a larger tank.

DEF. The Ford DEF tank has a capacity of 5 gallons. The truck's computer puts a warning on the instrument panel when the DEF tank is "under 1/2 full". Many stores (i.e. Wal-Mart) sell a 2 1/2 gallon container of DEF. I refill my DEF tank when the "under 1/2 full" warning comes up. There is always spill over from a 2 1/2 gallon refill container so if you fill up when the warning appears on your dashboard, expect to overfill the tank.

Also, I have replaced two DEF tank heaters on my truck to the tune of over $800 each time. If you read the Ford truck forums you will see this is a frequent problem with the Ford diesels, which my dealer confirmed the last time the problem occurred. Two DEF heaters in 80,000 miles seems excessive to me, but not to Ford. Even though DEF is required for emissions control, Ford does not cover the DEF heater under the emissions warranty.

I will never buy a diesel truck with a 26 gallon tank again. The next time (likely 2019) I buy a new diesel truck, my poor experience with Ford's DEF system will be a factor as well as some of the other very expensive repairs I've experienced with my Ford SuperDuty diesel, including fumes from the engine entering the cab. Needless to say, I will be taking a very hard look at GM and Ram.

As to the aftermarket 50 gallon Titan fuel tank, I didn't trust Ford to honor my warranty if the tank wasn't installed by a dealer. After exploring the possibility of my dealer installing the tank, I found the price quoted outrageous (versus independent shops) and in the end I didn't trust the dealer to do it right. One of the requirements is to install the sending unit at a certain torque and then recheck the torque 30 minutes later before continuing the installation. I have zero confidence my dealer service department will check the torque, much less wait 30 minutes and check again before continuing the installation. Returning to have sloppy $120 per hour work redone makes one skeptical.

I also found the 26 gallon tank to be limiting, so I had the dealer's aftermarket shop install a 50 gallon one. I think out the door was around $1200.

I normally fill DEF at the truck stop as its really convenient.

Towing a 30', I am really happy to be able to use the big rig fuel lanes. Really takes the stress off of me when I see the tight quarters / overhead awnings etc. at gas stations.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:15 AM   #38
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Sorry But Your Data is Incorrect

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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Your post is incorrect and misleading. Please do the research of the Ford specs to be better informed.
Ford offers several combinations of wheelbases and yes you can get a short bed with the Diesel F-250. The wheelbase determines the tank size. They offer 29, 34 and 48 GL tanks. The wheelbase is determined by how you build the truck and the combinations are numerous. There are three different box sizes to choose from.
My F-250 diesel Lariat Super Cab with all the bells and whistles, 6.9 box came with the 34 GL tank and 2,300 lbs payload.
Frankly Frank,

According to the specs on the Ford website, the 2018 Super Duty is available in only two cargo bed lengths -- 6 3/4' and 8'. The F-150 has three bed options -- 5 1/2', 6 1/2', and 8'. In the Super Duty lineup (diesel), the regular cab is only available with the 8' bed and the fuel tank holds 29 gallons. The super cab with 6 3/4' bed has a fuel tank capacity of 29 gallons and the 8' bed has a capacity of 34 gallons. The crew cab with the 6 3/4' bed has a fuel tank capacity of 34 gallons and the 8' bed has a capacity of 48 gallons.

Thanks.

Susan
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:24 AM   #39
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I also found the 26 gallon tank to be limiting, so I had the dealer's aftermarket shop install a 50 gallon one. I think out the door was around $1200.

I normally fill DEF at the truck stop as its really convenient.

Towing a 30', I am really happy to be able to use the big rig fuel lanes. Really takes the stress off of me when I see the tight quarters / overhead awnings etc. at gas stations.
For $1200 installed by a Ford dealer I'd have happily bought a 50 gallon replacement fuel tank. My Ford dealer wanted $2200 and would not guarantee the installation.

It should be noted we love the performance of our Ford Superduty when towing with our Airstream. If Ford had done right by its early 6.7 purchasers by replacing the soft valves on the early build engines and covering the DEF heater under the emissions warranty I'd be a completely satisfied Ford owner and looking forward to buying a new 2018 or 2019 Superduty. I can understand early production sometimes has issues and when the manufacturer stands up to its issues with early vehicles I respect the brand and can tolerate experiencing early production quality issues. When the manufacturer will not replace parts in vehicles it acknowledges are problematic in its own TSB's, it is difficult to respect the manufacturer.

At this point, the truck is 8 years old, nearing 100,000 miles and has a build date indicating it has the soft valves prone to breaking around 100,000 miles. It doesn't make sense to put the money into a new fuel tank when I'll soon be trading to avoid the $20,000 engine replacement cost when a valve breaks. Instead of automatically trading for another Ford, I'll be looking hard at the competition. From my conversations with the dealer and Ford, that's okay with Ford Motor Company. Buyer beware.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:52 AM   #40
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Two Beds

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Your post is incorrect and misleading. Please do the research of the Ford specs to be better informed.
Ford offers several combinations of wheelbases and yes you can get a short bed with the Diesel F-250. The wheelbase determines the tank size. They offer 29, 34 and 48 GL tanks. The wheelbase is determined by how you build the truck and the combinations are numerous. There are three different box sizes to choose from.
My F-250 diesel Lariat Super Cab with all the bells and whistles, 6.9 box came with the 34 GL tank and 2,300 lbs payload.
Frank, did not mean to be incorrect nor misleading. Ford offers SWB and LWB options in each cab configuration. Only two bed lengths in Super Duty. 8 foot and 6.75 foot according to their website spec sheet.
SWB vehicles have 6.75 ft. beds and LWB vehicles have 8 ft. beds. So you are correct that you have a short bed (SWB) Super Cab Super Duty with 6.75' bed. I am correct that the shortest bed available in a Super Duty is 6.75'. My previous truck was a F350 SRW Super Cab PSD with SWB or
6.75' bed. Ford specs say the floor length of the beds with the short bed is 81.9" or 6.825 feet and the long bed floor length is 98.1" or 8.175 feet.

Enjoy your day.

Dave
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