Dodge/Ford/GM

[Greg N]

Brian

I just bought a Ram 2500 Crew with the Cummings and the reason I did was two fold...

1. The Cummings is made by a diesel Engine manufacture.
2. Its the only one with an Exaust brake...

Your gonna be Heavy and I think the Exaust Brake you would appreciate in a down hill situation...

Greg

[moosetags]

Craig, I am also somewhat partial to Fords. We a a '30 Cabriolet and a '56 Tbird out in the garage. Albeit, our tow vehicles are both GM.

Brian

[richinny]

the warehouse clubs have buying services too.

[moosetags]

Originally Posted by richinny

the warehouse clubs have buying services too.

Thanx for the reminder. We got a better price on an '04 Tahoe through Sam's Club.

Brian

[moosetags]

As best I can figure, I will need to carry about 2500# in the bed of the truck, and another 1000# on the hitch. I will need a minimum 3500# payload capacity.

I have searched the specs on-line for 2011 1 ton trucks with single rear wheels.

The GM comes in at 4286#

The Ford comes in at 4050#

The dodge comes in at 3360#

Am I reading something wrong, or is the Dodge payload spec that much less than the others?

It appears that the Ford and GM could handle the job, but the Dodge would be a little shy.

Brian

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by moosetags

...Am I reading something wrong, or is the Dodge payload spec that much less than the others?

yes and yes.

the ford is 3550 lbs and the dodge is 3030 lbs.

"reading something wrong"...

YES

max payload DEPENDS on which gvwr is selected (axle and spring package)

the FORD long bed, crew cab 4x4 diesel has a max payload of either....

2080 OR 3550 (10,000 OR 11,500 gvwr) with the diesel (and 2850 or 4050 with a gasser)

((the HIGhESt payload specs listed are ALL with the gas engine (because it weighs less than a diesel))

and 4x2 trucks have a tiny bit higher payloads than 4x4.

the dodge is ONLY available as a 10,100 gvwr rating

the ram long bed crew cab 4x4 diesel has a payload of 3030 or 2950 (AT vs manual)
_____________

"dodge payload spec that much less..."

YES

let me post this for the THIRD TIME in this thread...

the rear leaf/axle rating is 500-600lbs LESS on the dodge and there is NO UPGRADE available in SRW...

so the max payload is lower by that amount.

(the dodge is LIGHTER so at the lower gvwr it's got a TINY bit more payload.
_____________

ALL of that is dependent on options ordered with the truck and wheel/tire size and axle ratios...

so trucks with 17s have slightly different payloads that 18s or 20s and that isn't OBVIOUS without the code book.

the FINE PRINT is in a book and website called "esourcebook.dealerconnection.com"

but u need a password to access it.

cheers
2air'

[2airishuman]

pricing 2011s.

unless the dealer is emotionally attached to the truck...

a buyer can BUY them all day at invoice which is about 9-11% OFF msrp.

club shoppers, the X plan and other seemingly good deals aren't better than invoice pricing.

the X plan appears to be a tiny bit less than invoice but doesn't come with the SAME rebates/customer incentives...

so right NOW invoice + rebates is the best deal, UNLESS u r a CURRENT ford employee or recent retiree with a PIN.

supply is much different that just 3-4 years ago

and computers mean they can TRACK the codes used for real employee pricing.

the dealer hold backs are only 1000-2000$ and they've started restricting HOW dealers deal with holdbacks.

there are a about 50 different rebates depending on eligibility (like active military or first time buyer...)

any seemingly lower deals come with LESS trade value so don't confuse the 2 issues.
___________

IF you really wanna order, you'll need to VISIT a dealership and get the REAL OPTION code list thats available...

this isn't completely available on line (the fleet ford website has it but you need a CODE)

but a dealer can PRINT it out for ya.

when options are selected the computer matches specific wheel/tire/axle ratios to certain options...

so some things u might WANT can't be had with other things.

it LOOKS like there are 4-5 rear end ratios available

but the fact is on a 350 srw there are ONLY 2 options 3.5 or 3.3 for the diesel.
----------

nothing wrong with emailing several dealers with your 'want list' or emailing the 'internet sales person'

but almost ALL of the door stickers are now ONLINE

and you can quickly scan 20-50 dealers inventory...

and READ the options packages on any/all the 350s they have IN STOCK.

the dodges are 2010s on the lot right now, but 2011s are coming soon and with no real changes.

ordering a dodge can take 3-5 months, ordering a ford can take 5-12 weeks.


cheers
2air'

and they ALL HAVE ENGINE/exhaust BRAKING NOW, it's NOT a dodge/cummins only thing.

[thecatsandi]

Brian,
They are all pretty much the same in power,etc. Whatever vehicle you are most comfortable in is the on to buy.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by moosetags

...I will need a minimum 3500# payload capacity...

this becomes an issue with ANY of the srw trucks.

because TIRE CAPACITY is the limiting factor.

there are only a few E rated tires with >3500 lbs rating.

so with 3500 in payload AND the base axle load of 3500, thats 7000 lbs on the rear axle.

this will exceed the spring rating AND many of the stock E rated tires.

one could add air bags or timbrens and buy wheels that will take the highest rated E tires...

but at that point (and that load) a dually is simply a better choice.
_____________

there are a couple of camper shell options that only weigh 1000 lbs or 1500 lbs but they may not have the features desired.

for example the flip pac would greatly reduce payload needs and still provide shelter for a few nights...

flippac

we've got a member who recently added this to his 150...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...tml#post833351

one could easily add a toilet, water, heat, a fridge, battery and seating/table and even an awning to this...

sleeping UP that high would make for better moose spotting too.


cheers
2air'

[dkottum]

It's coming down to a dually for an Airstream 25'??? For a few nights' good sleep away from the trailer.

All this makes the van camper look pretty good. Easy access, all inside same unit, can have swivel front seats that rival the comfort of good recliners, less weight, less operating cost, and less hassle.

We are somewhere in this idea ourselves, but leaning toward sleeping in the back of a small, agile SUV (FJ Cruiser, perhaps) for those back country excursions. So excuse me if I am heading the opposite direction of 2Air'. Have also considered the SWB Sprinter with pop-top conversion or high-top option, but that may be too light for your trailer, depending on who you talk to.

Doug

[hhendrix]

Moosetags, here is what I did. I carefully researched the truck info and made a list of all the option codes. I bought the New Car Price Report from Consumer Reports so I would know the invoice and MSRP prices. I made an excel spreadsheet and contacted 7 Ford dealers in the area. I then faxed the spreadsheet to all and all responded with a price with a range of $2500 hi to low. I was able to order my new F250 exactly as I wanted for under invoice. I probably could have used the prices to negotiate a little better deal with one dealer or another, but I told them all they get one chance. I wasn't going to nickle and dime to save $100. BTW, Ford has a $1500 rebate offer on the new trucks. A couple of notes. I tried to use the buying service from Costco, but all that got me was invoice price. Same too with the buying link from Consumer Reports website. I suspect those services are for buyers who want a no hassle purchase.

[Gene]

Brian,

I haven't used AAA since 2000, but I believe they got fleet price and rebates minus dealer prep. I don't know how fleet compares to invoice, but it appeared to be close. No need to buy CR price report as Edmunds and others have same info for free on the internet.

Doug,

The FJ Cruiser is sexy looking from the outside, but the visibility from the inside is awful. The windshield seems more like a horizontal slit and the C pillar obstructs a lot of area when backing. I was thirsting for one when they came out until I sat in one. I didn't like the dashboard either. Better to get a 4Runner—same vehicle with different body although you can't get a stick with the 4Runner. I don't know if they still offer a V8 in either, but I suppose the V6 will pull a 20'.

Gene

[2airishuman]

these daze fleet ordering is limited to very specific models, trim and options.

delivery time is also different.

using phrases like 'fleet pricing' or below invoice or dealer surplus or...

are all simply advertising gimics and hooks.

cheers
2air'

[sander17]

One item to check on when shopping for a truck to carry a truck camper: When we purchased our 2005 2500 4x4 short bed, it included in the paperwork a sheet which said to Never install a truck camper. The implication was that the center of mass would be too high, risking a rollover. Whichever truck you choose, check on this issue.

[dznf0g]

Forget everything stated above about the Chevys/GMCs. The new heavy duty 2500 and 3500s were just released. GAME CHANGER! now has the most payload and GCWR. New maximum trailer weights AND new receivers. Virtually EVERY part is new from the body down on the chassis except the stabilizer links are carryover....that's it. Ford had to pull thier advertising about 3 weeks ago touting heaviest duty truck. Just arriving, but worth the wait.

[Hibby]

Brian,

You have a great tow vehicle (or two) already, and trailer. I highly recommend saving $60,000 and buying a tent, and maybe add an Aerobed for comfort!

[greatlakes]

Brian,

You cannot go wrong with an F-Series Ford truck sized to your pulling/load carrying requirements. You lose about 400# of tow if you go 4x4 and another 3-400# with the diesel.

Our AS are the same model and mine loaded goes to 6100#. I don't know where you pick up the extra 1000#. You may want to check the scales or don't carry so much food .

2airishuman: The dealer incentives are the same with or without the A, X, or Z plans. The dealer must show his invoice, and depending on what plan he's looking at, the price is automatically set and his incentives subtracted from that price. No haggling.

I am bias to this vehicle since I was the product planning manager for the Expedition/Navigator and F-Series before my retirement. GM and Dodge have good products, but they really can't beat Ford in the marketplace. The sales numbers and performance speak for themselves.

Oh, BTW, we do it without government help/interference and no break from the UAW.

PM me if you need any purchasing details.

All the best,

[Dave Park]

And the 4x4 is a handy 400 lbs to take with you - it'll get you out of some spots you'll be grateful for... Like any time it rains and you're in a field.

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by greatlakes

...The dealer incentives are the same with or without the A, X, or Z plans. The dealer must show his invoice, and depending on what plan he's looking at, the price is automatically set and his incentives subtracted from that price. No haggling...

the no haggling thing clearly attracts some buyers, it was THE big thing with saturns...

of course price is but ONE variable,

since traded value, discounts on accessories, comp service...

and a whole LOT of other things can be on the hagglin' table.
________

NOT disagreeing with the above quote, but adding a bit more info/complexity...

as i understand it (skipping A, Z, D plans) the x plan is ~ 0.4% lower than invoice.

(which is 200-300$ on a 50-60,000$ truck)

--but includes a MANDATORY advertising fee of ~300$ and CAN include a 75$ admin fee.

--then there is "fuel fee" and shipping which also show up on the invoice.

--so the fees alone can add 1400 $ to the final price, unless hagglin' (which is part of INVOICE pricing)

--X plan buyers must use ARBITRATION for any warranty disputes.

--X plan buyers must have LEGITIMATE access to a PIN (dealers are forbidden from giving them away now)

--X plan SELLERS (the dealer) cannot 'sweeten the deal' by including COMPLIMENTARY accessories or service...

--so they cannot simply throw IN a bed liner or bug deflector or winter mats or 3 oil changes, and so on...

>>>in other words the dealership cannot SWEETEN his X plan 'package' to undercut another dealership,

or ADD value to the customer transaction with merchandise/accessories...

which means the customer has fewer incentives available.

and there are a FEW customer rebates that don't apply to x plan buyers and a few INeligible vehicles...
____________

living in a metro area where there is a F assembly and Ge'em assembly plant

means these "plans" and the folks using them are all around and openly discussed in every new car lot.

but the pricing differential has changed,

the FEES the mothership charges dealers are higher, and the TRACKING of plan use is tighter.

i purchased 5 years ago with "the x plan" and it was clearly a better deal than simple invoice/negotiating.

and about 4-5 months AFTER the purchase

a F corporate employee (investigator) made contact to 'audit' the x plan transaction (it felt like a mini IRS colonic)

but this year is different and the X plan is not necessarily better price wise and more tightly controlled.

PLUS YA GOTTA HAVE access to A LEGIT PIN...
____________

ultimately all that matters is that the buyer is HAPPY with the price and vehicle.

and in this case that whatever is purchased is UP TO THE TASK of towing AND hauling mobile living space...

cheers
2air'

[Jim & Susan]

Hi guys. Trying to work my way thru this thread. What does SRW mean again? My Gomer side is showing.

Jim