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Old 08-27-2009, 09:48 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by safari 28 View Post
At some point, it would seem the number of fleets, and personal use of Diesels will be greatly reduced after issues like this. I mean really, unless you are towing a 15k lb fiver or the like, do you really need the hassle? The up front cost, the complications in cold weather, the smell of the stuff on your shoes nd hands after filling up, is really worth it? My 5.4 with 3.73 rear end has been flawless, I just do not see the return on investment, not to mention the stress when these thing appear to be a potential nightare as they age. If the real argument is they last longer, and as they age the potential for very expensive repairs from intercoolers, turbos not to mention what they do transmisssions and rear ends, I am indeed missing something.

I will be making a decision in next year for potentially a 34 pan american. I am convinced a 250 with a v10 gasser and 4.10 will be the choice.
After pulling a couple of passes in Utah this summer with our rig that topped 10K feet with a 10% grade, I'm sort of dissatisfied with my truck, a 5.3L GMC. We obviously made it, but were down to 30MPH in low gear watching the trany temp climb to 230 degrees.

I borrowed a friends Dodge Diesel truck and tested it pulling the trailer. Now, I want one, but it will probably not be a Ford. You really have to experience it yourself.

On a section of Interstate highway here in Texas with some pretty good grades and a prevailing South wind that normally has my gasser in second gear at 55MPH, the Diesel pulled our trailer at 70MPH with the cruise control on with only a slight changed in the exhaust sound.

I will probably wait until my wife retires and we can actually do more traveling to make the switch.
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Old 08-27-2009, 10:48 AM   #30
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I spend 80% of my towing time out west, from southern claiforinia to oregon and back to michigan. I get the grades, the wind. We have towed through all of it. I have no problem working the 5.4 hard when it needs to, being a power boater working a modern gasoline engine does not hurt them. That being said, most of the time she is loafing along at 2100 rpm.

I just think most feel they are hurting them at 3500 to 4000 rpm. I run a 5.7 f.i boat engine for hours and now for years, same engine, no problem. Each his own I guess. Taking off a cab is just incredible for any repair. I love my ford gasser, but that story tops them all and should make anyone purchasing a diesel think twice. What I have read about maint cost and repairs on all light duty diesels, its just not worth it. Airstream in my opion does not make a model to justify it. Now for those fivers with frontal surfaces the size of a blimp, well that another issue. Its a cost they must absorb for all the additional living space.
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Old 08-27-2009, 11:00 AM   #31
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I agree with you, it does not hurt a gas engine to turn them up...that's what they are designed to do. As a matter of fact, the engine in my truck does not reach full torque until 4000RPM. I

I normally tow on flat ground in 3rd gear turning 2700 +.- and I've measured the mileage like that, and switching between 3rd and OD (2100), and there is really no difference in mileage.

The Diesel just does it easier and with more authority. One thing I DID NOT like about the Dodge Diesel that I borrowed, was the ride. Compared to my GM half ton, the Dodge rode like a buckboard. Don't know about the rest of the 3/4 toners, but I'm told the GM rides a little softer.
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Old 08-27-2009, 12:59 PM   #32
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You may want to look at your coolers to see if they are working properly. I never had anyissues with trans temps in any conditons. Also, what is your rear end ratio?
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Old 08-27-2009, 01:38 PM   #33
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The radiator and trans cooler is working fine. When I got to the top, we pulled over to enjoy the view, and I left it running to cool off some. Before we left, the aux fans were already off. It doesn't go into alarm until it gets to 242 degrees.

It's not a problem on a "normal" climb, but this was one of those roads "not recommended for semi's", with about five miles of 10% grade. You won't find much over about 7% on the major highways, and on those, I never have to go below second gear.

At that time the truck was geared 3.73:1, and I've recently changed it to 4.1:1, but haven't towed much with it yet.
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:21 PM   #34
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That type of road will challenge the tranny, and the 4:11 will make a huge difference. I have no alarms etc, temp guage just sits on normal? Maybe its not working??

Not to hijack this thred on Fords 6.0 issues. Just got me as I think what I will do if the pan american is a reality. I will have over 2klb in demontration product in the garage if it all goes as planned. Still, a 3/4 ton ride is the biggest issue for me, I love the my heavy 1/2 ton and the way she soaks up the bumps for me and the Streamer. But that is another story much discussed on the forum.

Now back to the 6.0 stories.
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Old 08-27-2009, 02:46 PM   #35
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Safari, the one thing to remember is that you might be running your boat gasser all day long with no problems, but you're not pulling a load uphill with it. An engine with no load on it will operate differently from an engine with load, and this is where the diesels excel. The diesel is able to operate at a lower RPM and produce more torque (and, in some cases, more HP), thus reducing stress on the engine internals. Diesel engine internals are stouter than gassers. Take a connecting rod from a 5.9 Cummins and compare it to a 5.9 Dodge Magnum gasser....two totally different critters, added to the fact that one's a V8 and the other an inline 6.

The International Harvester VT-365, which is the sister engine to the Ford 6.0, has never had the problems the 6.0 has, to my knowledge. I've spoken to the local IH service center here in town, and one of the mechs told me that the biggest downfall of the 6.0 is the tuning requirements Ford imposed on IH/Navistar, in order to win the peeing contest with Dodge and Chevy. Well they did win, allbeit for a few months, but at what cost?

One of the things that we, as owners of the 6.0, are learning now is that many of the Ford dealerships diagnosing blown head gaskets were actually incorrect; most of the time, it was the EGR cooler suffering complete failure and hydrolocking the engine. The head gaskets will blow, but only if you put a tuner on the truck and pretend you're Big Daddy in the Swamp Rat on the strip.

The number one killer in these engines is the casting sand left over from the casting process, IMO. Once it clogs the oil cooler, you're screwed. The other problem is running 900*-1200* exhaust through a cooler...that's just damn dumb and poor design.

Given that I've seen a 6.0 with no emissions components on it whatsoever pass the sniffer, I don't understand why Ford opted to conform to 2007 EPA standards, beginning in 2003...Dodge didn't have a catalytic converter on the 5.9, until the 2004.5 model year, with the 610 Cummins 5.9 and an EGR in 2007 with the 6.7...I've heard of some owners with a model year 2007 5.9 with EGRs but have yet to verify it with a pic.

Once I get the catalytic converter gutted next month, I'll see if my local mod-friendly diesel tech has a sniffer and get him to run the test, so I can post the results.
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Old 08-27-2009, 03:34 PM   #36
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I keep reading about the Diesel's "EGR". Is that the same thing as on a gasoline engine, Exhaust Gas Recirculation?
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Old 08-27-2009, 05:05 PM   #37
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It sure is, Steve, and one of the biggest reasons why diesels that have them have to have their oil changed more often than the older diesels, added to the fact that the intake gets coked up pretty good too. Ford has an intake cleaning service, which costs around $600 (includes mandatory oil change)....you will literally see a pile of soot on the floor, where the tailpipe exits.

I took the EGR off of my 1979 Vette and picked up 3 miles per gallon....Our 6.0 picked up 1 MPG, while towing. I haven't taken it out on the highway yet, empty, for a long run, but I can guarantee that's it's going to be better than what it was.
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Old 08-27-2009, 07:44 PM   #38
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OK, on a gas engine the EGR used to be controlled by vacuum, but I suppose it's done by the computer now. I used to just plug the vacuum line and that would take care of it, but don't know how to defeat it. How's it controlled on a Diesel?
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:58 PM   #39
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You're 100% correct, the Ford Diesel EGRs are controlled by the computer. On the 2003/2004 models, you can disconnect the EGR electrical plug and you won't get a Check Engine Light (CEL), but you will on newer models. You just have to make sure that the truck is off, when you disconnect the plug, otherwise you are running the risk of the EGR being in the "open" position. When the mod-friendly tech deleted my EGR and EGR cooler, he gave me the EGR and up-pipe, in the event I ever move to a state that enforces emissions and I need to put that crap back on....if I do, you can bet that I'll buy the upgraded EGR cooler, which is supposedly guaranteed not to fail, like the OEM cooler.

BTW, the EGR was crudded up with soot something fierce. I'm surprised it worked at all. What I find amusing is that the environmental whackos out there don't realize that an emissions system that is poorly designed (and designed to eventually fail), actually lays out more emissions, by forcing the vehicle to use more fuel.

My truck hasn't puffed a single bit of black smoke, since the EGR's been off. In fact, the turbo spools up faster and I actually got the truck sideways, by accident, I swear!
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:01 AM   #40
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I do have a small problem if anyone has experienced this. If I don't drive the truck for a couple weeks it has a hesitation while driving or idling, like a bad plug wire or filed plug on a gasser, after driving a few miles it clears up. I am wondering if it is an injector? I use Stanadyne additive regularly.

Marvin
A sticking injecter on a cold start is quite commen on the 6.0. Ford should replace it under warrenty. The problem is it is commen for differant injecters to stick. And Ford loathes replacing all 8 injecters. If you can stand it the problem clears up as the engine warms up. Adios, John
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:35 PM   #41
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Marvin,

Before you take your truck to the dealership, visit this site www.hotshotsecret.com . International hired this guy to develop the product for them. I would give it a try, before giving up my truck for God knows how long.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:53 AM   #42
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EGR Cooler... yep.

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Little Radio,

If I were a betting man, and I knew that your truck was 100% bone stock, I'd say your heads are fine and it's your EGR cooler that's given up the ghost. Depending on the severity of the failure, you will exhibit the same symptoms as head gasket failure.
Yep. You were right. Ford Dealer installed new EGR Cooler and oil cooler. (Didn't my Excursion already have an oil cooler?)

No head gasket problems. Fixed in one day. I drove 5.5 hours from Chicago to Kentucky to pick it up last weekend, and then drove immediately back home.

I'm taking the truck and 30' TT to Texas in a few weeks. I'm still not feeling very comfortable with the truck's reliability. How can I after it's failed me 3 times (and I'm ferrying a wife and 3 small children?)
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