Agree to Disagree on Tow Vehicle

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by kdickinson

In an ideal world a TV would be used only during trips that include towing and would be stowed with the trailer and not generally used otherwise. Full timers are in a whole different situation of course. Unfortunately, at least for me, our TV is a daily driver which is pressed into service about 4-5 times per year for a long weekend and up to a week long trailer trip. During its towing duty it is on smooth mostly straight paved highway / interstate driving in forward gear about 99% of the time. We tend to keep trips to 5 hours each way at the max with an ideal travel time around 3 hours each way. So - in an entire year our tow vehicle spends about 30 to 40 hours actually towing our trailer - an those hours are very important hours and miles. We spend way more time driving the TV once the trailer is parked and the TV is unhitched than we spend towing. But - the reality is that if I were to replace my current TV I am locked into that 35-40 hours of towing in making my decision. For me it's about having a TV that can provide ample safety and confidence in towing the trailer when I need it for towing (confidence in going over high passes in the west and staying with traffic on the highway and safety for braking & stability) but with daily driver comfort and utility where I live i.e.: 4wd is essential in snow country even though I avoid pulling my trailer in the snow (been there done that - not fun).

This has always been the baseline for this trailer type. From the very beginning. That safe family transportation while solo takes precedence. And that same vehicle can ALSO tow an Airstream type trailer.

But how fast up the hill isn't worth two seconds of concern.
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[EarlM]

The Hensley and Propride supporters love their hitch, they have plenty of time enjoying them during the long hookup process.

[wildhorses]

Originally Posted by Boxite

The TV should weigh at least as much if not MORE than the trailer. It's wheel-base should be approximately half the trailer length or greater, unless you are already very experienced in towing. (Ex: A 100" wheelbase will comfortably handle a 16'-18' trailer. The typical 11' wheelbase of a large SUV or crew-cab PU will comfortably handle a 22-24' trailer.) Both TV and Trailer should be loaded only within the recommendations of the mfr's manuals. A driving course is a good investment. If you've never towed, find a driving school that will teach the subject, or one for truckers and attend.

I couldn't agree more, the only thing I would add is never exceed 75% of your vehicle's rated towing capacity with the trailer. You will always add more "stuff" to the TV and trailer.

IMHO - You always want more TV than you need, I have towed racecars (that's me on the right) all over the USA for 20+ years in everything from an open trailer to a 53' five(5) car enclosed trailer. I can say without a doubt that driving down the road white knuckled because the tail is wagging the dog ruins all the fun of the trip. I have towed with and without WD hitches, I can vouch that they do stiffen the combination but anyone who pays attention when driving will not need one unless their TV is overloaded to begin with.

PS. If you know anyone in need of a 5 car enclosed trailer I need to sell mine: http://wildhorsesracing.com/2016/05/...-hauler-55584/

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Boxite did well in post 32, except for this

"The TV should weigh at least as much if not MORE than the trailer. It's wheel-base should be approximately half the trailer length or greater, unless you are already very experienced in towing."

The weight of the tow vehicle has little to do with stability of the combination. Better to consider low center of gravity and full or even front independent suspension where the body/frame is carried by the suspension attachment at a much wider stance than a solid axle configuration.

In many cases such as braking or accident avoidance, overweight can be a problem.

Wheelbase is better judged by ratio of wheelbase to rear overhang (distance of hitch ball to rear axle). This will determine the effect of sway leveraged forward to the steering axle. Except when using the Hensley/proPride design hitches where the sway is not leveraged forward to the steering axle, but stopped at the truck's rear axle. Like a semi or fifth wheel where the hitch pivot point is over the rear axle.

No hitch will ever overcome the forces generated by a swaying trailer that weighs two to three times the TV or is two to three times longer.
Common sense tells me that it is far safer to rely on a heavier and better balanced tow platform than a hitch for safety.
No hitch can overcome an overloaded TV. The most important consideration in matching a Trailer with a TV is not the hitch one intends to use, it is the payload capacity of the intended TV.
And with all due respect to the ardent supporters and promoters of the expensive ProPride and Hensley hitches, it would be refreshing for you to balance your enthusiasm by noting that fact.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

No hitch will ever overcome the forces generated by a swaying trailer that weighs two to three times the TV or is two to three times longer.
Common sense tells me that it is far safer to rely on a heavier and better balanced tow platform than a hitch for safety.
No hitch can overcome an overloaded TV. The most important consideration in matching a Trailer with a TV is not the hitch one intends to use, it is the payload capacity of the intended TV.
And with all due respect to the ardent supporters and promoters of the expensive ProPride and Hensley hitches, it would be refreshing for you to balance your enthusiasm by noting that fact.

We do. But you don't listen.

Common sense is said to be uncommon. Were the heavier vehicle designed with a low center of gravity and fully independent suspension plus sensitive steering, the assertion would be correct.

It isn't. So while the assertion may be common, the senses tell us otherwise of its faults. Thus rejecting bad information.

(Same process for the rest of your self-serving, undefined, and untested assumptions)
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[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

If you all were really that concerned with the towing ability, none of us should buy a trailer at all.
A fifth wheel is much more stable because the pivot point is above the rear axle. (or slightly in front)
More stable yet, a motorhome with air bags. Designed to do the job from the ground up.

But we like Airstreams and so the argument moves to "How do I overcome the instability of a trailer by throwing money at a solution?"

A fifth wheel or gooseneck hitch is great. But a 5er trailer is a disaster going down the road. Any AS can be set up to run rings around it. Even with a pickup.

Motorhomes are worse. Few vehicles wander across lanes more than they. Not until one gets to the million dollar mark are mohos getting closer to an AS rig.

As much as anything, it's the wind load capability. The huge sail areas and non-aero design (plus inferior suspension) is what renders them helpless.

An exception to this would have been the FMC motorhome of the 1970s. (The GMC was a large passenger van in comparison).

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by pteck

This is a good thing to know of the Equilizer. An owner should understand that because of this, they should release the WD bars before entering or backing up into uneven campsites (or other scenarios).

BUT, this one weakness does not mean it's not a viable solution! In fact, it's one of the most time tested and effective friction based WD/anti-sway hitches on the market.

You forget that the VPPs come with their own compromises. Some compromises may be deal breakers for some, but not for others. Again, it's okay!

The Equalizer brand brings nothing not found on other conventional hitches with integrated anti-sway. But it's not as "intelligent" as a Dual Cam, and it exerts more force against the trailer while working. There are better choices.

Again, the single "problem" of a VPP is stinger weight.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by slowmover

The Equalizer brand brings nothing not found on other conventional hitches with integrated anti-sway. But it's not as "intelligent" as a Dual Cam, and it exerts more force against the trailer while working. There are better choices.

Again, the single "problem" of a VPP is stinger weight.

Bunk, I say, bunk.....

[Samrizzi]

Hello....New the group and asking a question I am sure has been discussed ...We own a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi ...it is not a daily driver...It is in great condition and ...has one great feature ....It's paid for ...I don't know the gear ration ...it has an oil and transmission cooler ....I beefed up the rear suspension. Our search for an affordable smaller Airstream as not been fruitful ...we are thinking of a 31 foot 1990 Excella Gvw 8300 lbs...any thoughts ...wondering if trailer is too big for our beloved Dodge ...
Thank you

Enzo Rizzi
Sudbury Ontario

[ALANSD]

ENZO;
IF YOU GET AN OLDER TRAILER IT IWLL BE LIGHTER..However with the right set up your trailer might be ok with that weight, but not optimal. A 3/4 ton would make your life easier. But since its paid for....

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by slowmover

We do. But you don't listen.

Common sense is said to be uncommon. Were the heavier vehicle designed with a low center of gravity and fully independent suspension plus sensitive steering, the assertion would be correct.

It isn't. So while the assertion may be common, the senses tell us otherwise of its faults. Thus rejecting bad information.

(Same process for the rest of your self-serving, undefined, and untested assumptions)

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Your TV doesn't seem to fit your criteria for an Ideal TV either. A Porsche 911 does but unfortunately it would be over it payload capacity by hanging a contraption on it like the ProPride, leaving no room for the driver.
Since you do have the most fabulous and miraculous ProPride hitch why aren't you towing it with a Toureg, or better yet a Dodge Caravan. Both low center of gravity and independent suspension.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Samrizzi

Hello....New the group and asking a question I am sure has been discussed ...We own a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi ...it is not a daily driver...It is in great condition and ...has one great feature ....It's paid for ...I don't know the gear ration ...it has an oil and transmission cooler ....I beefed up the rear suspension. Our search for an affordable smaller Airstream as not been fruitful ...we are thinking of a 31 foot 1990 Excella Gvw 8300 lbs...any thoughts ...wondering if trailer is too big for our beloved Dodge ...
Thank you

Enzo Rizzi
Sudbury Ontario

When fully loaded your trailer might weigh 7-7200 lbs?, go for it....

[MelGoddard]

[QUOTE=wildhorses;1991420]I couldn't agree more, the only thing I would add is never exceed 75% of your vehicle's rated towing capacity with the trailer. You will always add more "stuff" to the TV and trailer.

IMHO - You always want more TV than you need, I have towed racecars (that's me on the right)

NICE LEGS!!:lol:

[Tomzstream]

The best TV? The one that is paid for...

[kdickinson]

They sure seem to drive better when they are paid for!! AGREE

[KCCO]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Your TV doesn't seem to fit your criteria for an Ideal TV either. A Porsche 911 does but unfortunately it would be over it payload capacity by hanging a contraption on it like the ProPride, leaving no room for the driver.

Since you do have the most fabulous and miraculous ProPride hitch why aren't you towing it with a Toureg, or better yet a Dodge Caravan. Both low center of gravity and independent suspension.

This has been brought up several times and he has never answered..........

honestly though - I've been able to learn from many of his posts that I've read. I try my best to read his posts and get something from them and ignore the arrogance with which many of them are written.

[wildhorses]

Originally Posted by MelGoddard

NICE LEGS!!:lol:

Thanks, I try to stay in shape (and I try to make new friends every year)

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Your TV doesn't seem to fit your criteria for an Ideal TV either. A Porsche 911 does but unfortunately it would be over it payload capacity by hanging a contraption on it like the ProPride, leaving no room for the driver.
Since you do have the most fabulous and miraculous ProPride hitch why aren't you towing it with a Toureg, or better yet a Dodge Caravan. Both low center of gravity and independent suspension.

Do you not understand "best" versus "compromised"? Your statements make it that you don't. You wanted a pickup. You didn't need one. You compromised to have a lesser vehicle. Your choice.

My truck solo weight stays from 1300 to 1800 pounds above ship weight. How about yours?

Mine has low stance, IFS, rack & pinion steering, slightly modified suspension, and is balanced within 40-lbs at all four corners, solo. It'll outperform any weight class substitute solo or towing. I kept compromises as low as possible to do what I choose to do. You didn't. Fine, it's your rig.

On center of gravity and its height ALONE -- compared to yours -- I'm driving a slot car. What's your solo FF/RR weight bias? You don't honestly think that your pickemup is faster into or out of turns, solo or towing?

It's braking and handling that matter. Engine power is irrelevant for safe operation. The hitch is to keep the truck upright more than the trailer. Try a VPP and see for yourself. Money-back guarantee.

When the need for the truck passes I'll have a Chrysler 300. Unlike you I already have a couple of decades experience in using cars to pull these trailers.

FWIW, "uncle bob" has a current thread on worn Ford shocks. MoFlash had excellent update info. Have a look. Better shocks arent just for ride quality, but handling as well.

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[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Samrizzi

Hello....New the group and asking a question I am sure has been discussed ...We own a 2005 Dodge Ram 1500 with the 5.7 Hemi ...it is not a daily driver...It is in great condition and ...has one great feature ....It's paid for ...I don't know the gear ration ...it has an oil and transmission cooler ....I beefed up the rear suspension. Our search for an affordable smaller Airstream as not been fruitful ...we are thinking of a 31 foot 1990 Excella Gvw 8300 lbs...any thoughts ...wondering if trailer is too big for our beloved Dodge ...
Thank you

Enzo Rizzi
Sudbury Ontario

Can Am RV Centre in London, ON is your place to start. See website and schedule appointment with Andrew Thomson to discuss. He is a consultant to Airstream on this issue.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by KCCO

This has been brought up several times and he has never answered..........

honestly though - I've been able to learn from many of his posts that I've read. I try my best to read his posts and get something from them and ignore the arrogance with which many of them are written.

I have answered. Have fun going thru 6000-posts.

Ands it's more irritation than anything else. The information is available. Something else I and others have posted many times.

For too many its that if it's outside their experience -- and herd consensus -- then it isn't possible. Or "reasonable".

Ignorance has a cure.

The choice to saddle ones family with a vehicle whose far higher solo miles are now in a rollover & serious-injury-prone work vehicle doesn't make rational sense. Place arrogance where it belongs.

To repeat, again, (the words of an emergency room physician), "Want a long and healthy life? Avoid two things: being gunshot, and involved in a serious auto accident".

The vehicle that rolls (where another choice wouldn't) is the one to avoid.

"Why" is the basic physics of vehicle handling. Fred Puhn wrote a fine book years ago. Andrew Thomson handholds people across the bridge. Others of us here have experience which pertains.

The choice of this type of trailer (not brand) was key in best travel results and long life. (This doesn't seem to be understood either; why that is so).

Mating an excellent TV to it -- that carefully fits SOLO requirements best -- AND that can pull the trailer is the central theme. (But you'll note it isn't.) Risk reduction doesn't matter, for most. Statistics say otherwise.


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