2 WD vs 4WD Tow vehicle

[jcl]

Originally Posted by Moflash

But when need the added traction while pulling your Airstream when the need arises there is nothing like turning a switch and driving away.

Except perhaps a tractor, because the 4wd isn't a cure all. From four or five posts back.

[Isuzusweet]

Okay, we have a whole bunch of people that think 4wd is just the bees knees and well worth it, but we also a few that consider the expense, (initial purchase and running expenses), handling, lower payload and towing capacity to be 4wd negatives; so lets talk about how you can have your cake and eat it too.

What would you have in your kit and what measures would you take to try and even the 4wd, 2wd playing field.

Here's my take.......

Obviously try and reserve a spot that would be 2wd friendly; talk to the campground when reserving your spot for best results.

If it is unavoidable that you have to park on grass that could be wet in the morning or there is a chance of parking on soft terrain then spread these out just ahead of your truck tires and drive onto them before unhitching and setting up.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PJ67AQW...p?tag=t10br-20

If you're going to hitch up on uncertain conditions, take the unfolded track and place it ahead of the hitch of the trailer and back the truck to it until the trucks hitch is across the mat by 8" and then place behind truck tires, back up and over them; hitch up trailer and your truck is already on the mat ready to go.

The first five feet is critical to getting the trailer moving; once moving you should be good.

Cheers
Tony

[Outdoorjojo]

15 inches of snow just dumped on our ground. Can't go anywhere without 4x4 , love 4x4 and my money well spent.

[Alluminati]

I didn't really want 4WD, but the best deal I could find on a Sequoia had it. So no additional upfront cost for me. Do I need it? I don't think so. Am I glad to have it? Shur!

The turning radius on my 4WD Sequoia is smaller than any 2WD Ford, Ram, or Chevy PU.

[featherbedder]

People pay in excess of $100,000 dollars for AS then complain of maybe 1mile loss or less per gallon. One tow over life of vehicle will cost more than loss of mileage with 4 wheel drive. You do not drive in 4wheel drive all time as such as mine 2wh high 4 wh. high full time 4 and 4wh. low that use only if stuck, so cost per loss of 1 mile for fuel is not even a factor. Every veh. my family has is 4wh. drive except 1 beater used for running for parts etc. in auto repair bus. There is old saying if asking price of boat you can not afford it.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Alluminati

I didn't really want 4WD, but the best deal I could find on a Sequoia had it. So no additional upfront cost for me. Do I need it? I don't think so. Am I glad to have it? Shur!

The turning radius on my 4WD Sequoia is smaller than any 2WD Ford, Ram, or Chevy PU.

Awe yes, but it is also shorter than a PU and likely less payload. Plus, you likely aren't going to carry a generator, gas can, and firewood in the back of that nice Sequoia are you? But that's another thread...PU vs SUV I believe....

[21Airstream]

Originally Posted by Outdoorjojo

15 inches of snow just dumped on our ground. Can't go anywhere without 4x4 , love 4x4 and my money well spent.

We've got about a foot of snow on our property. I wouldn't be able to get to work without my 4x4.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[NicheVintage]

We purchase our 1500 Sierra in 2012 used with very low miles we wanted a 4wd however were unable to find one and the price on this one was way too good to pass up. That being said we have regretted not waiting to find a 4wd and we will be replacing it with 4wd this year. You never know when you will need it and it's nice to have for a just in case scenario. In fact even with nubby all terrain tires we have gotten stuck in wet flat grass. Had we purchased 4wd we wouldn't have had an issue. Good luck.

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

Okay, we have a whole bunch of people that think 4wd is just the bees knees and well worth it, but we also a few that consider the expense, (initial purchase and running expenses), handling, lower payload and towing capacity to be 4wd negatives; so lets talk about how you can have your cake and eat it too.

What would you have in your kit and what measures would you take to try and even the 4wd, 2wd playing field.

Here's my take.......

Obviously try and reserve a spot that would be 2wd friendly; talk to the campground when reserving your spot for best results.

If it is unavoidable that you have to park on grass that could be wet in the morning or there is a chance of parking on soft terrain then spread these out just ahead of your truck tires and drive onto them before unhitching and setting up.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PJ67AQW...p?tag=t10br-20

If you're going to hitch up on uncertain conditions, take the unfolded track and place it ahead of the hitch of the trailer and back the truck to it until the trucks hitch is across the mat by 8" and then place behind truck tires, back up and over them; hitch up trailer and your truck is already on the mat ready to go.

The first five feet is critical to getting the trailer moving; once moving you should be good.

Cheers
Tony

Tony, thanks for the suggestion. These are light weight and certainly inexpensive. I am going to order a set.

Dan

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Awe yes, but it is also shorter than a PU and likely less payload. Plus, you likely aren't going to carry a generator, gas can, and firewood in the back of that nice Sequoia are you? But that's another thread...PU vs SUV I believe....

Sorry, my comment was to illustrate that 4WD is not as clumsy as commonly thought. I was not trying to say my SUV was better than a PU.

Several commented on clumsier handling and poor steering. My 4WD handles beautifully, and can turn a tighter circle than any 2WD GM, Ford, or Ram pickup OR fullsize SUV. My truck has a longer wheelbase than all the short bed standard cab trucks, and standard length Expedition or Suburban.

Some said 4WD was taller and more difficult to climb into. The literature makes no note that the 2WD and 4WD Sequoias are different heights.

My point was to say that 4WD is more user friendly than many may think.

If I only used my truck to pull a trailer, I would have bought a Tundra, but I also needed a vehicle that totes people when we're not traveling. So yeah, I have lower payload, so I put all the weight in my trailer. No generators in the truck. But we have thought about installing a pancake style generator in the basement of the trailer (yes, our Avion has a basement), and there's plenty room for a gas can down there too, though we might get a gen that runs on LP.

[Boxite]

I haven't read all the replies, so perhaps it's been mentioned already, but....
not all 4X4's are created equal.
For example, the Ram 1500's are not those tall, hard to enter tallboys that most 4WD vehicles are. They are as low to the ground as 2WD.

The Ram 1500 4WD also does not suffer the solid front axle most other brands install on their PUs. The 1500 has independent suspension.
And the latest models have air-bag levelling suspensions which do away with "roll" etc. when carrying heavy loads.

And the Ram 1500 has a coil-spring suspension on the rear.... not those heavy leaf suspensions most others have.

Also, consider the engine again. While diesels are the "hot" items for some... they actually and rarely are the economy-engine often supposed. The gasoline engines are powerful, reliable, don't require DEF fluid (and don't go into "limp home" mode when you run out of fluid) and don't require a specialty diesel mechanic to diagnose problems if you ever have one.

Also, in other threads here it's been shown that the heavier-duty suspensions (such as 2500/3500 PUs) are unnecessary for towing and prevent the lower, independent suspensions that are so advantageous. (Maybe someone can find that link to the RV mag article which discussed that at length.)

A hard tonnaue cover can also make the truck bed a great, waterproof, theft-resistant storage space for carrying things like BBQ grills, tools, bikes. etc. I keep my generator there and it's out of sight and dry. (In fact, the Ram PUs also have that "rambox" option that I"ve found really helpful. I keep all sorts of tools there, including a 3-gallon 120 psi air compressor that'll actually inflate a tire and run air tools.... along with the Inverter for 120volt power.)

I'm not trying to start a Ram vs Ford vs Chevy etc argument, it's just that since switching to that brand I've become more familiar with it's features and found them really useful. Other brands likely should be looked at when making a selection... But I am in support of 4WD in the 1500 PUs, and for another good reason: If you ever find yourself needing more pulling power... the "LOW-4WD" selection will vastly increase your ability to get up that steep slope at "crawler" speeds should you boondock.

As for the comments by others regarding icy/slippery roads.... I hope everyone realizes that if the road is icy.... it's time to park and make a warm beverage....NO TOWING on ice!

YMMV

[rodsterinfl]

Whew, lots of ideas for you. I came back to the thread and read through several posts. I wanted to add something that I found back when I was deciding.

First, let me say that adding front wheels to the mix has advantages- deep snow, etc. I do not mean to say different BUT according to CU and F150 forum, someone deciding if they need 4wd drive or not to camp/tow has a lot to do with where they live and conditions they encounter. (CU separated expectations of 4wd from AWD- 4wd is slow speed in most any config while AWD can be all the time.)

I know that some may disagree with what I am about to post. I found in my digging that 4wd'ers said that the conditions that are a toss up- any drive would have issue, is ice, mud, grass/mud. Tire type has a lot to do with it too. In other words, you may or may not get out of these situations no matter what. Interestingly, many wrecks in snow and ice are 4wd vehicles

Much more 4WD vehicles are involved in accidents on snow and ice than 2WD. Since snow and ice provide only marginal traction (so marginal that you need 4WD/AWD to start moving) and not enough lateral force can be created to support the tires during a turn, they slip sideways and the vehicle falls off the road.

I know that I used to be able to drive all over in the Kentucky countryside on snow covered roads in my VW Beetle when other cars could not. It was because the engine weight was over the drive wheels and it was a light vehicle easy to move BUT on ice and snow it was dangerous directionally. I could get going but then I would "vibrate off the road".

Towing is a different story. You have lots of payload so weight in the back or over the wheels is not an issue - a locker helps in this case but 4wd may help in bad situations. It just depends on offroading habits, conditions in your region. Etc. It also has a lot to do with how you can handle a vehicle- some people floor it and dig themselves in and others rock, etc. I remember the AWD Honda CRV I owned and how owners complained about it- how when the AWD kicked in it would almost make them wreck. I only experienced it once in FL on a wet road and it did surge but it was momentary.
All this to say that 4wd's benefit is to get you going in a straight line at low speed and your benefit depends on your environment where you live but I do not find 4wd a requirement for Airstreaming unless you camp in the 4th season in a cold place over the river and through the woods.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by jcl

Primarily for the less precise steering and worse handling, due to suspension design. Higher fuel consumption, more weight, reduced payload, higher capital cost and higher operating costs are factors, but the handling is the most important one to me. Unless it is a lighter awd vehicle where reasonable handling is maintained.



Many years back I drove a tow truck in a family automotive service business. We did a lot of 4wd recovery. We joked that 4wd just got people further down a trail that they shouldn't have been on in the first place. We rarely pulled them out with 4wd, we always used a winch. Good business in that. One of the recovery trucks was 2wd with a winch. Always fun pulling a 4wd out after they tell you it will be impossible to reach it with 2wd.

Couldn't have said it better.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Alluminati

Sorry, my comment was to illustrate that 4WD is not as clumsy as commonly thought. I was not trying to say my SUV was better than a PU.

Several commented on clumsier handling and poor steering. My 4WD handles beautifully, and can turn a tighter circle than any 2WD GM, Ford, or Ram pickup OR fullsize SUV. My truck has a longer wheelbase than all the short bed standard cab trucks, and standard length Expedition or Suburban.

Some said 4WD was taller and more difficult to climb into. The literature makes no note that the 2WD and 4WD Sequoias are different heights.

My point was to say that 4WD is more user friendly than many may think.

If I only used my truck to pull a trailer, I would have bought a Tundra, but I also needed a vehicle that totes people when we're not traveling. So yeah, I have lower payload, so I put all the weight in my trailer. No generators in the truck. But we have thought about installing a pancake style generator in the basement of the trailer (yes, our Avion has a basement), and there's plenty room for a gas can down there too, though we might get a gen that runs on LP.

Basement? I don't believe any AS models have a basement?

[Boxite]

Originally Posted by Isuzusweet

.../

The first five feet is critical to getting the trailer moving; once moving you should be good.

Cheers
Tony

I've never been able to locate that campsite regulation that limits slippery to only 5-feet.

[Isuzusweet]

Originally Posted by Boxite

I've never been able to locate that campsite regulation that limits slippery to only 5-feet.

Ha, ha; you know what I meant!

The laws of momentum!

Cheers
Tony

[pappy19]

When it comes to whether or not to have a 4 wheel drive, it has way more to do with what tires you have. Highway tires on a 4WD could be worse than a 2WD with traction tires. The tow truck with 2WD doesn't have to drive right to the stuck , he just pulls the winch cable to it. Yes, the 4WD costs more at first but certainly more buyers when you sell or trade.

[perryg114]

Too bad subaru does not make something with more guts that would give you true all wheel drive and decent tow capacity. An outback will run circles around a lumbering unstable light in the rear end pickup. I see tons of pickups in the ditch when it snows here. My Excursion does better than pickups because of the more symmetrical weight distribution. I have never had the rear end skid around like in my pickups that scare the hell out of me in the rain much, less snow. Trucks work much better with about 1000lbs in the bed or a trailer in tow. The can be scary when empty.

Perry

[Alluminati]

Originally Posted by gypsydad

Basement? I don't believe any AS models have a basement?

Yeah, I know, and too bad really.

Our basement is not all that tall, but we've grown quite used to having all the storage space. It's nice to have dedicated room for legos, chocks, spring bars, awning and stabilizer operating handles, stinky slinky, and all the outdoor toys like camp chairs, hammocks, campfire supplies, pool noodles, air mattresses, etc, etc. Keeps the inside of the truck and trailer clean.

Some services are also put in the undercarriage for convenience and protection. Batteries, furnaces, LP tanks, enclosed waste valves, and ginormous water and waste tanks all call the basement home. In some cases this increases inside storage too.

We will lose room for camp chairs and pool noodles if we install a generator.