Shore Power Failure

[MWBishop]

Help. Plugged into 15A home power to get frig cooled down for camping trip and all ok. Got to campground and connected 30A thru Progressive EMS and no issues. Frig appeared to switch over ok and turned on water heater. Came back in a few minutes later and smelled like burning wire and frig with error code E3. Checked EMS and drawing 31A (should only be around 13-14 frig and water heater only). What? Not good. So powered all down and back up again. Still no EMS issues, frig and water heater appear running ok and now only drawing 13-14 amps - seemed all ok. But, battery check showed 12.9 instead of 13.3 - other things flaky too. So shut down again and power up. Now everything dead - batts only. Tried my 50A power cable and 50A EMS same result (light on cord did not even illuminate). Got back to storage and plugged in with same result. So not CG. Houston, we have a problem.



So does this sound like Transfer Switch? Converter? Worse?


Please, any ideas where to start would be much appreciated.
Still under warranty and perhaps dragging back to mother this spring is an option, but if Converter fried maybe this would be a good time to upgrade to a 4 stage?


Thanks.

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by MWBishop

Help. Plugged into 15A home power to get frig cooled down for camping trip and all ok. Got to campground and connected 30A thru Progressive EMS and no issues. Frig appeared to switch over ok and turned on water heater. Came back in a few minutes later and smelled like burning wire and frig with error code E3. Checked EMS and drawing 31A (should only be around 13-14 frig and water heater only). What? Not good. So powered all down and back up again. Still no EMS issues, frig and water heater appear running ok and now only drawing 13-14 amps - seemed all ok. But, battery check showed 12.9 instead of 13.3 - other things flaky too. So shut down again and power up. Now everything dead - batts only. Tried my 50A power cable and 50A EMS same result (light on cord did not even illuminate). Got back to storage and plugged in with same result. So not CG. Houston, we have a problem.



So does this sound like Transfer Switch? Converter? Worse?


Please, any ideas where to start would be much appreciated.
Still under warranty and perhaps dragging back to mother this spring is an option, but if Converter fried maybe this would be a good time to upgrade to a 4 stage?


Thanks.

Hi MWBishop,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issue you are having. Please send us a direct message with your contact information and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.

You can also reach Airstream Customer Service and Technical Support at*customer_support@airstream.com*

Thank you.*

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Lots of possibilities so no way to go right to a single answer. It does sound like something has toasted. Randomly guessing what that is .... not a good idea at all.

If you want to go the DIY route, here's where to start:

Get the manual for your trailer from the AS web site. It has a chart in it telling you what breaker is what.

Find the AC breaker panel and turn them all OFF. Take a look at the EMS, it should read
zero amps. If not, you have a wiring issue ahead of the AC panel (or multiple defective breakers). The EMS should show 120V on the display.

Next throw only the master 30A breaker and nothing else to the ON position. You still should see zero amps. If not, the panel or one of the breakers has a problem. Probing the downstream side of the breakers with a multimeter would let you work out which one.

Leave the main breaker on and one at a time turn each of the sub-breakers on. Note the current and then turn that breaker off. Did any give you nutty readings (like 20A on a 15A breaker?) If so, dive into that circuit.

Did the converter breaker show several amps when you threw it? If not, the converter is either blown or the output to the battery is now MIA. Work with a multimeter to trace the DC voltage if that seems to be the issue. (Another check is to watch if battery voltage goes up when the converter breaker is turned on).

Now go back to the fridge circuit and turn on the fridge. See how it comes up and operates.Since it was on before, it's a prime suspect. You may need to sit for a bit to see how it does.

That should be enough to keep you busy for now .....

Bob

[MWBishop]

Thanks Uncle_Bob.


When the EMS is connected it never shows anything other than 0 amps.
Does not matter if breakers off or on - just always get 0. Does not matter if I use my 30A cord with 30A EMS or my 50A cord with 50A EMS - always 0. So something is fried. Converter maybe?



Interestingly enough, I posted my situation to the other social media site and an Airstream representative called me the very next morning day, so they really do monitor these sites. After describing, he highly recommended taking to an RV shop for a full inspection just to make sure there's nothing really, really serious going on. Hopefully whatever is dead is simple and will be under warranty. Time for a complete annual anyway, so I can get that done as well. Worst part is canceling our Autumn trips, but that's the breaks. Just happy it did not catch on fire and we were at our local campground when it died.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by MWBishop

Thanks Uncle_Bob.


When the EMS is connected it never shows anything other than 0 amps.
Does not matter if breakers off or on - just always get 0. Does not matter if I use my 30A cord with 30A EMS or my 50A cord with 50A EMS - always 0. So something is fried. Converter maybe?



Interestingly enough, I posted my situation to the other social media site and an Airstream representative called me the very next morning day, so they really do monitor these sites. After describing, he highly recommended taking to an RV shop for a full inspection just to make sure there's nothing really, really serious going on. Hopefully whatever is dead is simple and will be under warranty. Time for a complete annual anyway, so I can get that done as well. Worst part is canceling our Autumn trips, but that's the breaks. Just happy it did not catch on fire and we were at our local campground when it died.

Hi

If the EMS never ever shows anything other than 0A, that's not the converter. The converter turns 120V power into 12V power. If it goes away, you don't charge the battery. Everything else works fine. As long as the battery doesn't go flat, even the 12V stuff still works fine.

If your trailer has dual shore power inputs, try the other input. Other than that, you likely have a busted shore power cord or possibly the EMS has an issue. Less likely is a fried main breaker or blown master feed wiring to the breaker panel.

This of course *assumes* that the main breaker is turned on. You may need to cycle it full off and then back to full on to get it to engage. I'm guessing you already did that.

If you want to dig further, get out a multimeter and start tracing the voltage from the pedestal. 120V a the EMS output, 120V at the end of the shore power cord, 120V into the AC panel, 120V out of the master breaker ..... Normal safety rules apply to all this so be careful.

If indeed buying a new converter and putting it in would make you feel better, then by all means buy a new converter. The perpetual yack about converters on RV sites is to some degree generated to make you feel insecure about your converter and to buy a new one.

If by some chance yours actually *is* dead (in addition to your other problem) then get something a bit better than the stock unit if yours is out of warranty. If it's in warranty, maybe you go for the free one. I bought one of the aftermarket units and it blew up after < 2 weeks of use. It also damaged various bits and pieces in the trailer when it blew .... There is no guarantee that a new one will be prefect ....

Bob

[MWBishop]

It's a 50A trailer to only one shore power connection.
Maybe it is that connector that has fried?
At CG I tried 50A cord with 50A EMS, as well as 30A cord (with 50A adapter) with 30A EMS. I also tried 15A at storage facility. In every case no shore power. Just dead.


May be it is something beyond an amateur such a myself should try to take on. Or maybe just a wire popped off somewhere and shorted.



Never-the-less, I am taking it to a service department for a full diagnostic to make sure everything is ok - certainly don't want an unsafe situation or fire potential. Time for full comb-over annual nspection anyway (brakes, propane system, etc).


Thanks.

[rmkrum]

Most EMS systems that measure AC current have one or two coils that must be placed around the hot wires to detect current. Sounds like they are not hooked up properly...

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Most EMS systems that measure AC current have one or two coils that must be placed around the hot wires to detect current. Sounds like they are not hooked up properly...

Hi

Except that earlier in the thread, they were reporting correctly ... there's also no power in the trailer ....

====

Indeed if this is starting to sound complicated, run the rig over to a dealer and let them sort it out. You very much do not want to get killed trying to debug an RV issue.

Bob

[Drathaar]

Originally Posted by MWBishop

It's a 50A trailer to only one shore power connection.
Maybe it is that connector that has fried?
At CG I tried 50A cord with 50A EMS, as well as 30A cord (with 50A adapter) with 30A EMS. I also tried 15A at storage facility. In every case no shore power. Just dead.


May be it is something beyond an amateur such a myself should try to take on. Or maybe just a wire popped off somewhere and shorted.



Never-the-less, I am taking it to a service department for a full diagnostic to make sure everything is ok - certainly don't want an unsafe situation or fire potential. Time for full comb-over annual nspection anyway (brakes, propane system, etc).


Thanks.

When this is resolved, please post what the issue was...

[MWBishop]

Yes, I certainly will report the diagnosis. Scheduled to take to service on Nov1.

The fact that both my 50A/30A cords and 50A/30A EMSs behave the same way makes me believe that the issue must be trailer itself.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by MWBishop

Yes, I certainly will report the diagnosis. Scheduled to take to service on Nov1.

The fact that both my 50A/30A cords and 50A/30A EMSs behave the same way makes me believe that the issue must be trailer itself.

Hi

The fact that the "light on the 50A cord did not illuminate", but there is 120V reading on the EMS suggests it might be external to the trailer.

Bob

[MWBishop]

As promised, a follow up on my electrical issue. Since under warranty I dropped Airstream off at a local shop on Nov 1 and just got it back today.
The electrical issue turned out to the Parallax converter - it just fried itself for some reason. In addition to the annual maintenance I requested, the technician inspected and tested all wiring to ensure nothing else had melted. He even left it connected to power for a week checking it every day to verify all was well. I think they treated it as well as I could have done.

So I'd like to send a shout out to Rocket City RV in Tanner AL (between Huntsville and Decatur). They are a new RV store that sells/services Airstreams as well as SOBs. Luckily their techs just returned from Airstream service school so that certainly set my mind at ease. I know the horror stories and was certainly leery of dropping our AS off with a brand new dealership, but someone has to give them a chance. Many other Airstreams were there for service too, so was happy to see that this establishment is being supported by our community.

But I must say I was very satisfied with their service. Yes it took a 5 weeks, but an additional week and a half after it was finished was because I asked them to go ahead and order/replace our smashed exterior furnace plate (don't ask). Our camper was fixed, serviced, inspected, and winterized and other than residual pink stuff in shower I would have never known they were even inside the thing - they kept it extremely clean while doing the work.

Therefore if you live up this way (North Alabama) don't write these guys off just because they are new. Of course for body work or anything major I'd still go to Mothership, but for general service work I think they did a great job. I don't think 5 weeks was too long all things considered (mostly waiting for ordered parts) and given we are entering wintertime. I won't hesitate to go back next time.

[mythbuster88]

Great news!
Does the light work on the 50A chord?

[Paprika]

"The electrical issue turned out to the Parallax converter - it just fried itself for some reason."

It's not unusual for the 120 VAC automatic transfer switch (ATS)--a box mounted on the back of the Parallax converter--to suffer a meltdown caused by setscrew terminals that have loosened up due to vibration as you travel down the road. When you have 15 or 30 amps going through a tiny contact area, it can get hot enough to melt copper. I don't know for certain that this is what happened in your case, but it's a good possibility. I recommend checking and if necessary retightening those ATS setscrew terminals at least once a year.

[MWBishop]

Originally Posted by mythbuster88

Great news!
Does the light work on the 50A chord?

Rats - did not think to try that. Will for sure next time when out of storage.

[MWBishop]

Originally Posted by Paprika

"The electrical issue turned out to the Parallax converter - it just fried itself for some reason."

It's not unusual for the 120 VAC automatic transfer switch (ATS)--a box mounted on the back of the Parallax converter--to suffer a meltdown caused by setscrew terminals that have loosened up due to vibration as you travel down the road. When you have 15 or 30 amps going through a tiny contact area, it can get hot enough to melt copper. I don't know for certain that this is what happened in your case, but it's a good possibility. I recommend checking and if necessary retightening those ATS setscrew terminals at least once a year.

Wilco. Thanks for the tip.
So to do this I am guessing power down the trailer completely (even batts), slide the converter out (assume that's simple enough), and look for obvious box that is the ATS.