Battle Born LiFePO4 batteries

[Jhess]

Originally Posted by SilverHouseDreams

Voltage based metering will not work on lithium batteries at all, as the voltage profile is _very_ flat. They barely ate adequate on lead acid batteries, honestly. The voltage based meter is pretty worthless on lithium, if you actually want enough info to play for boondocking you will need a current based monitor.

Also, is there a current based monitor you’d recommend, that gives info on your phone? I’ll be ordering the Battleborn batteries.

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by Jhess

Also, is there a current based monitor you’d recommend, that gives info on your phone? I’ll be ordering the Battleborn batteries.

The Victron BMV-712 has built in Bluetooth and works well, probably the most popular option on here.

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by Jhess

Thanks for the reply. That’s exactly the converter I just ordered! I don’t have any solar. I’m curious why I need a new battery monitor since the Sport already has a voltage level reading in the restroom. Not against the idea but would like to know the advantage or need.

The advantage of a battery monitor is to total your amp hour consumption primarily. They do a lot more like having reminders and show watts, volts etc but the main advantage is to have a true total of the amp hours entering and leaving your battery bank from your converter or solar or both. "Percent full" is extremely accurate when a shunt is used. Voltage only monitors are too dynamic and are rarely accurate unless the battery has been resting for several hours.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

The advantage of a battery monitor is to total your amp hour consumption primarily. They do a lot more like having reminders and show watts, volts etc but the main advantage is to have a true total of the amp hours entering and leaving your battery bank from your converter or solar or both. "Percent full" is extremely accurate when a shunt is used. Voltage only monitors are too dynamic and are rarely accurate unless the battery has been resting for several hours.

Hi

Voltage only monitors also suffer from the "where are they wired" problem. If I turn on the fan in my trailer, one of my voltage monitors dips by about 0.2V. That doesn't sound like much, but even with lead acid batteries it's a big deal.With lithium batteries it would make things exciting.

What you miss out on looking at just voltage on lithium's is the "where am I" part of things. You can very easily tell when they are fully charged. You also get a fine indication of them hitting the last 10% or so of their capacity. It's the in between 90% and 10% region where things get a bit murky.

In fact even with lead acid's current based monitors are a really good idea. Lead acid "magic voltages" are temperature dependent. If it's really hot out or heading towards freezing, the correct voltages could be a half volt away from what you think they are....

Bob

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by NoResults

These sure make a generator look good. 1800.00 for two batteries to get 200 amp hrs vs $200.00 for my stock batteries at 160 amp hours.

Yes I see more amp hours etc but unless they guarantee then for 10 years you are taking a big hit it something goes wrong in year 3 or above

160ah wet cell= 80ah usable. 200ah BB= 180ah usable.

I called BB before our recent purchase, and yes the BB warranty just went from 3 to 10yrs.

Bob
🇺🇸

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

160ah wet cell= 80ah usable. 200ah BB= 180ah usable.

I called BB before our recent purchase, and yes the BB warranty just went from 3 to 10yrs.

Bob
🇺🇸

Hi

If you are charging from a generator, lithium's charge very quickly ( = almost full current right up to end of charge). Lead acid batteries have a long period where the current drops back and they slowly top off. You can indeed ignore this, but you loose about 20% capacity when you do. Going from 50% to 80% is a lot different than going from 50% to 100% in terms of usable amp hours.

Running a generator at > 50% output is fairly efficient. As you drop back in output (even with an inverter generator) the gas used vs power out gets worse and worse. You very much want to run a heavy load and then shut the beast down.

Bob

[Jhess]

Usable amp hours is referring to depth of discharge, not how long it takes or efficient it is to charge to a certain level, but maybe I’m missing your point.

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by Jhess

Usable amp hours is referring to depth of discharge, not how long it takes or efficient it is to charge to a certain level, but maybe I’m missing your point.

I'm lost with you. Not many people charge "from" a generator but plenty of people charge via a generator through the converter/charger. The converter doesn't care where the AC power came from to power it.
Charging from the generator on most of them is a slow process with not may amps being delivered. Powering the converter by the generator is a much faster way do deliver current to the batteries.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you use your generator as a source of power to provide the electrical energy source for your battery charging rather than utilizing the shore power connection as your source of energy for the charging process ....

(hopefully that's clear for the English teachers in the group ... )

The run time of your generator matters. On shore power, do you really care?

(maybe that's not the case with everybody)

Lithium batteries charge differently than lead acid batteries. Their current vs charge level curves are different. Net result, you put the full 50A out of your charger into a lithium for 2 hours and you have a 100% charged 100AH battery. With a lead acid it's going to take *way* longer to get to a 100% charge level with the same charger. Net result is that you have a longer generator run time for a lead acid than for a lithium. Since it works the same way at all depths of discharge, the lithium always wins the race.

Bob

[THEDUSTY]

I'm trying to find a way to charge a Battle Born battery when it's not connected up to a system - a Battery Tender type device. Is there a simple, reasonable priced solution? I know this is a "newby" question but I haven't really found a solution. Thank you...

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by THEDUSTY

I'm trying to find a way to charge a Battle Born battery when it's not connected up to a system - a Battery Tender type device. Is there a simple, reasonable priced solution? I know this is a "newby" question but I haven't really found a solution. Thank you...

I would buy a progressive dynamics 9100 series lithium charger plug it in to your work bench, then connect 12v leads to your batt. $150 bucks. Done.

https://www.progressivedyn.com/speci...d9100l-series/

On another note one of the benefits of lithium is that they don’t mind sitting at rest with a partial charge. In fact, they don’t want to be floated like lead acid.

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

I would buy a progressive dynamics 9100 series lithium charger plug it in to your work bench, then connect 12v leads to your batt. $150 bucks. Done.

https://www.progressivedyn.com/speci...d9100l-series/

On another note one of the benefits of lithium is that they don’t mind sitting at rest with a partial charge. In fact, they don’t want to be floated like lead acid.

Agree with wulfratt except I might consider the Boondocker 1260CL because it's user adjustable for LiFePO4 batteries and I'm beginning to think 14.5 might be the ideal voltage for the majority of Lithium batteries.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by 68 Overlander

Agree with wulfratt except I might consider the Boondocker 1260CL because it's user adjustable for LiFePO4 batteries and I'm beginning to think 14.5 might be the ideal voltage.

Good point! for what it is worth I bulk charge my victrons @ 14.2 and float at 13.5. I use a programmable Victron multiplus....

[68 Overlander]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Good point! for what it is worth I bulk charge my victrons @ 14.2 and float at 13.5. I use a programmable Victron multiplus....

Yes that is a very nice unit and we are going to carrying it for the inverter side of things and the fact that they are demanded (for those with lots of $$) but dang it's so expensive and the charger side does no different than a stand alone adjustable converter for those that already have an inverter or want separate components. I've learned over the years that if you have no problems with a combo units, they are great but if one side fails, you have to replace the whole enchilada and at $1500 out of warranty, it stings a little. I don't have any industry data as to which side is likely to fail first (but our experience is the inverter) but the Inverter side is the most expensive to produce and replace. I would use separate units personally for that reason and it saves about $500 but yes we will still carry them.

[SilverHouseDreams]

Originally Posted by THEDUSTY

I'm trying to find a way to charge a Battle Born battery when it's not connected up to a system - a Battery Tender type device. Is there a simple, reasonable priced solution? I know this is a "newby" question but I haven't really found a solution. Thank you...

How long are you storing it while detached? They have a _very_ low self discharge rate and you shouldn’t need to do anything, unless you are taking about cellar aging it for years.

[68 Overlander]

This is true and even after 3% or so self discharge per month, there is no harm. Just have to charge them back up.

[daleyocum]

Originally Posted by THEDUSTY

I'm trying to find a way to charge a Battle Born battery when it's not connected up to a system - a Battery Tender type device. Is there a simple, reasonable priced solution? I know this is a "newby" question but I haven't really found a solution. Thank you...

Battery a Tender makes something that claims to do Lithium. I have no experience with it but they generally make good stuff. Deltran Battery Tender Junior 12Volt 800mAh AGM, flooded, GEL, or lithium (LiFePO4) 022-0199-DL-WH https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06X9GGNZC..._HiYQBbN6PK3SN

[uncle_bob]

Hi

*IF* wear and tear on the BMS is a concern ( = you are worried about a built in unit), then dropping back to something like 13.5V on lithiums will reduce the impact on the BMS. I'm not sure that's really a big deal, but it's worth considering.

Bob

[Bill M.]

In regards to what Uncke Bob said about charging. I still use flooded cell and a generator. When doing 3 days or longer off the grid our batteries are never fully charged. We have the 80% to 50% that he mentioned and it does not give one much power. For the little we boondock I live with it and replace the batteries every year because I often go under the magic 50% discharge. It does seem to take a long run with the generator to get over 12.4 or so. I can see why experienced Boondocker go the solar and expensive battery route. If you go with just the generator you have to run it a lot and watch the batteries carefully. Still that is the way I am going to do it.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

If you *are* a heavy battery user, something like the Victron BMV-712 is a pretty good thing to get. It will give you a *much* better idea of where your batteries are at charge wise than a simple voltage reading. If cost is an issue, the BMV-702 is cheaper and others make similar devices ....

Amazon and others will happily ship you one :

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Energ...ywords=bmv-712

https://shop.pkys.com/Victron-Energy...y-Monitor.html

Maybe even some others as well:

http://www.bestconverter.com/Victron-Energy_c_276.html

Bob