Honda Generator worn out, Options?

[handn]

After 10 years of use the engine on my EU 2000 has worn out. When it is cold it won't build up oil pressure and has to be re started numerous times.
If it is hot started, it will emit a puff of oil smoke and now burns oil.
Who has had this problem, what are the solutions and what is the cost of repair?

[ghaynes755]

Take it to a small engine Honda shop. Could be any number of things.

[Zil]

The best with any of these small engines is to replace the engine. It may be less to buy a new generator. Sell old one cheap.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by handn

After 10 years of use the engine on my EU 2000 has worn out. When it is cold it won't build up oil pressure and has to be re started numerous times.
If it is hot started, it will emit a puff of oil smoke and now burns oil.
Who has had this problem, what are the solutions and what is the cost of repair?

The cost of labor to fix things such as your generator, far exceeds the cost of a new one, especially if you want to rebuild an engine, correctly. It not only pistons rings, but the walls of the engine that the rings traveled in, would also have to be fixed, at least if you wanted a first class job.

Plus, because you have years of useage experience, you could update with perhaps something a little better than the original.

Your present cost per year of use, is peanuts.

Time for new.

Andy

[terryV]

I agree with Gary. It might not be as bad as you think.

[J. Morgan]

It is going to depend on how reasonable replacement parts are. I am betting they are not that reasonable, if even available.

Honda is going to want to sell a new generator after ten years.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[perryg114]

Honda is pretty good about stocking parts. I use to rebuild Honda 70 engines a lot when I was a kid. A set of rings and a new oil pump are probably all it needs. There might be an internal filter than needs cleaning. It might also need valve seals.

Perry

[dkottum]

Ten years good service would lead me to a new Honda, if not reasonable to rebuild the old one.

[overlander63]

If everything else works well, drain out the dino oil, and replace it with Mobil 1. It will no longer smoke, and may well run better.

[moosetags]

I agree. Try synthetic oil. it may extend the generator's life. If not, it is an easy, inexpensive fix to try.

Brian

[terryV]

We seem to have a difference of opinions here. So, I have questions that nobody has bothered to ask.

1) How many hours are on this unit? Ten years seems like a long time, but most folks don't put that many hours on these little generators.

2) Are you trying to convince yourself that you should have a new one no matter what?

If you really want a new one, go buy it. If you would rather not have to spend the money for a new one, have this one checked out. (The oil change to Mobil 1 is a good place to start.)

If you're looking for a place to take it, I would suggest a Honda motorcycle, ATV, generator dealer. They will have trained mechanics who know what they are doing. If it were mine, I would go to the dealer, buy another one, and have this one tuned up. Then you have two, and you can run everything or have a backup.

[AWCHIEF]

I have Honda 500 gen that is over 30 years old. I have rebuilt it twice. I am not a mechanic by any means but I am pretty good at swapping out parts. Cost to rebuild was not over $30. Parts are readily available for older Honda power plants. My lawn mower uses a Honda motor. I rebuilt it this past summer for about $50 in parts. We live in a disposable society and people are quick to tell others how to spend their money. At least I would give it a try before buying a new one.

[wahoonc]

I would check into the rebuild first. I have a Honda construction generator that has over 4,000 hours on it (probably closer to 6k) It is overdue for an overhaul, but will be well worth it.

I detest throw away stuff and do my best to purchase durable items that can be repaired. Honda is one of the best when it comes to getting parts and it is for just about everything they make. I just ordered a full gasket and seal set from my 1984 Honda CH125 scooter, they also had quite a few other parts still available. Amazing for a product that is 30 years old and has been out of production for 25.

Aaron

[idroba]

I had virtually the same issues with a friend's Honda 2000 which is used as his backup generator for his off grid solar powered home in NM. It probably has 4000 hours or more on it.

The hard starting or hard to keep running issue when first started is most likely the oil level switch. It is not oil pressure, but oil level which is monitored and the switch causes shutdown. It is a simple part, however it is very difficult to access requiring total disassembly of the unit and as I recall, separation of the engine and attached generator. I was not up to a total tear down of the unit to get at the switch, and he is incapable of doing it at all.

The oil using problem is also common when you get a lot of hours (thousands) on thees engines. The parts are available, but again the access is exceptionally difficult. There is no head that can be detached, the piston has to come out of the engine from the bottom and the major disassembly, unless you do it yourself, is costly at a Honda shop rate of probably $100 an hour. It is very easy to put more money into labor than a new generator would cost.

So, what my friend did was buy a new Yamaha Generator to try it out. I put a by pass switch on the oil level sensor, so the old Honda would start, and once it ran for about 5 minutes, the original switch would loosen up and the by pass switch could be turned off, so the low oil protection was still there. The oil consumption was not excessive after warm up (no smoke, little use) so he now has a backup generator, the old Honda 2000.

Anything can be repaired, the problem is the cost of labor if you take it to a shop. It is sad, but sometimes a new unit is the better solution from a dollar standpoint. For those of you who can, and like to, tear things down, you may find the parts cost is quite reasonable and rebuild is an option.

BTW, the Honda repair manual is available from Honda, but it alone costs in the range of $70. I would highly recommend the purchase of one if you are going to get into these generators. They tell you how to tear them down and what needs to be done to get at certain parts, such as that oil level switch I mentioned above. I got the manual prior to my going into the one I worked on.

[handn]

The generator has perhaps 1000 hours. The synthetic oil situation is a good one, I will try it first.
As far as I can tell the new generators are identical to the old ones so it is strictly a question of dollars and sense.
Perhaps it is an oil pressure switch as once it gets going, it has enough power. Thank you for the good advice.

[dznf0g]

Handn,

I got out my Shop Manual and would offer this...after some questions.
Oil consumption can be an issue of age as well as hours. How old is the unit?
Does it consume oil during operation, or just puff at startup? How much does it consume?

I agree with the above...the oil level sensor sticking and giving a false level shutdown is relatively common with age.

The output indicator will give you a rough idea of hours. Upon startup, it will blink.
Steady light = <100 hours
1 Blink = 100 <200 hours
2 blinks = 200<300 hours
3 blinks = 300 <400 hours
4 blinks = 400 < 500 yours
50 blinks = >500 hours....after that, you're on your own (I installed hour meters on both of mine when new)

"In case of insufficient engine oil level, the red LED oil alert indicator comes ON and ignition will be cut to stop the engine. Also, when engine oil is insufficient, it will prevent the engine from starting."

If it just puffs at startup and doesn't consume a significant amount of oil during operation, I would suspect valve seals. They can deteriorate with time, regardless of hours of operation. Worn guides can cause this as well, but usually will cause relatively higher consumption during operation, over just worn/hardened seals.

If the rings are sticking or worn, you would not necessarily see a puff at startup (unless seals and guides are also worn) but would see pretty high operational consumption.

At 1000 hours, I would not expect to see significant wear to cylinders, rings or guides, provided quality oil has been used and changed regularly. But if it is old, I would expect and suspect valve seals.

If I were in your situation and was considering replacement or complete teardown, I would try these steps.

1) analyse the oil consumption and smoking behavior in a more detailed and documented fashion. If it doesn't use much oil, I'd replace the valve seals. (This can be done without complete disassembly.

2) I would remove the oil and fill the crankcase with Seafoam (do not run motor!) This may free up the sticking oil level sensor.

3) Remove the spark plug and put about 3 tablespoons of Seafoam in the cylinder to potentially free up the rings. Let soak for several days (if oil consumption analysis indicates a high consumption rate).

4) Drain the crankcase and cylinder and fill with fresh oil. Operate the engine and bring to full operating temperature. (it will be hard to start and smoke like a banshee for awhile. When it warms up and quits smoking. Drain and refill with fresh oil again and replace the spark plug.

5) Monitor and document you starting and oil consumption performance again.

If after this you have startup puff, but no significant consumption, replace the valve seals.

If you still have a high consumption rate, a full teardown is in order.

Also, I am assuming that the air filter is clean and not over-oiled. Over-oiling can certainly cause hard starting and smoking.

If the filter is restricted, you could also be pulling oil from the crankcase through the breather hose. Examine the inside of the hose for excessive oil. This could also be an indicator of excessive ring blow by. Clean both the filter and the hose before the above consumption tests for another diagnostic aid.

Of course the basic compression test should be run before and after the above procedures.

I don't know if the old guidelines for auto engines would apply, but in my world 1 hour of operational time = 33 hours. So, I would not expect a 1000 hour engine (translated to 33,000 miles) to have a lot of hard part wear, if maintained properly. However, low hour/high sitting time will easily cause sticking rings and/or hard, brittle valve seals.

I'm sure I have forgotten something, and maybe Honda Robert will chime in, but that's where I'd start. If you're going to tear down and rebuild or replace, what do you have to lose?

[Zil]

Good advice from Rich. I just want to point out that synthetic oil doesn't stop oil consumption, it just doesn't cause smoke in the exhaust. It is a modern used car salesman's trick.

[handn]

That good advice should get me started. I will monitor further and quantify oil comsumption.
I had unit serviced by a Honda service center last year. They said compression was 25 lbs, low for the unit.
I have changed the oil every year with the recommended 10W30 and had unit serviced every other year by a professional.
Mobile One is 5W30. The lower viscosity should help the unit stay running in sub freezing temps.

[wahoonc]

I don't know which oil sensor is on your generator, however the one on my construction generator can be bypassed by simply disconnecting the wire. In cold weather we would quite often have problems with it cutting the engine off. After checking to make sure there was sufficient oil in it we would pull the wire until the the engine had gotten warmed up, then we would hook it back up.

Aaron

[rodsterinfl]

If you are doing the work yourself, you may be able to do it reasonably; however, the rate for repair on the generators, according to the information I looked at just to clean a carb, or service them is quite pricey.

If you go new, I strongly recommend in that size range, a Yamaha 2400isHC.