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05-31-2011, 12:44 PM
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#1
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Cleveland
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
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Any hot water pumps out there?
I'm searching for a water pump that can pump the hot water out of a heater tank (approx 140 degrees). The pump seals must be able to handle some sort of antifreeze. Have'nt decided on what type yet. My theory is to use a hot water tank from a MH that has the engine heat option. I'll be using these ports to run a radiant heat for the TT. Radiators & fans have already been worked out.
So far I've been looking at remote water pumps for auto engines. I know they'll handle automotive type antifreeze that will help in transmitting the heat. Any thoughts, comment, parts suggestions would be appreciated. Feel free to run with this idea for your own use, jut fill me in on any details you have worked out.
Ricky
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain
AIR 22749 WBCCI 2349 NOVA TAC TN-6
1989 345 LE Classic Motorhome
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05-31-2011, 01:05 PM
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#2
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Rivet Master
1982 28' Airstream 280
Port Angeles
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3 Dog Nite
I'm searching for a water pump that can pump the hot water out of a heater tank (approx 140 degrees). The pump seals must be able to handle some sort of antifreeze. Have'nt decided on what type yet. My theory is to use a hot water tank from a MH that has the engine heat option. I'll be using these ports to run a radiant heat for the TT. Radiators & fans have already been worked out.
So far I've been looking at remote water pumps for auto engines. I know they'll handle automotive type antifreeze that will help in transmitting the heat. Any thoughts, comment, parts suggestions would be appreciated. Feel free to run with this idea for your own use, jut fill me in on any details you have worked out.
Ricky
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Grundfos and Taco are commonly used pumps in radiand heat systems. They are normally 110V but they probably have them in 12V but may be a special order type of thing.
Good luck.
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05-31-2011, 01:57 PM
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#3
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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Ricky,
12v or 120v?
For 120v the best choice is probably one of the wet-rotor pumps Smartstream mentions. They are unavailable in 12v because the design inherently requires alternating current to work.
For 12v, go through the search results for "solar 12v circulating pump" and you'll find lots of choices. "El sid" seems to be a popular maker but I don't have any firsthand experience with them.
Most water pump seals have good compatibility with the propylene glycol antifreeze sold for radiant heat and solar energy uses.
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05-31-2011, 02:16 PM
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#4
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Aluminum Falcon Mechanic
1972 31' Sovereign
Wesley chapel
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,169
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March pump - ". March pumps are centrifugal low pressure, no valves or diaphragm to wear out. Water contact parts are brass. No shaft coupling or seal to leak because magnets couple the motor to impeller right through the solid brass housing. Fluids can be as hot as 250 degrees F. PRE-2009 models M809 motor brushes last 10,000 hours.The M809HS motor brushes last 7500 hours. As of 2009, these March pump motors NO LONGER have replaceable brushes. The motor manufacturer claims the new motors should last 30,000-40,000 hours. Just to be clear, these motors DO have brushes but the brushes cannot be replaced.
Ivan Labs: EL-SID pumps use March pump-head with direct electromagnetic drive, no shaft, bearings, brushes, or seals. 10-20 watts. Solar direct Ivan 10 recommends 20 watt solar module; Ivan 20 recommends 30 watt solar module. "
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05-31-2011, 03:32 PM
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#6
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Wise Elder
2010 30' Classic
Vintage Kin Owner
South of the river
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,169
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The wet-rotor AC pumps, which are among the most reliable, can't be counted upon to last more than 10 years in typical hydronic applications. At around 3,000 hours a year that would be 30,000 hours.
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06-01-2011, 12:36 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Cleveland
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
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Thanks for all of the quick replies. At first I was thinking of 12 volts only. But hey, wait a minute..... If I opt for the 120 volt AC electric element/ quick recovery on the tank, I would need to be plugged in for heat. This power would be free at campgrounds as I don't anticipate any boondocking. Using this power for heater & pump wouldn't be any less taxing on my electric service then the AC in the summer....Hmmm.....
But if I had a 12 volt DC pump, I could have heat using the propane portion of the tank heater when 120 volts are not available. Can you say inverter?
Karma to you all.
Ricky
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain
AIR 22749 WBCCI 2349 NOVA TAC TN-6
1989 345 LE Classic Motorhome
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06-19-2011, 10:27 PM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,255
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I am using this pump...
I am using one of these hot water pumps in my radiant heating system in my Airstream installation:
East Coast Solar :: Laing D5 VARIO Bronze PV-Direct Circulating Pump $179.90
It runs on 12 volt but is interesting in that you set the flow you want and the internal electronics tries to maintain that flow even with voltage fluctuations such as ones that you might get with a solar panel.
Malcolm
__________________
Only he who attempts the ridiculous can achieve the impossble.
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06-20-2011, 04:37 AM
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#9
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4 Rivet Member
1986 34.5' Airstream 345
Alliance
, Ohio
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 262
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Radiant heat is a great idea. From what I remember looking at my water heater the heat exchanger is nothing more than a 6" piece of tubing welded to the side of the tank. The surface area is adaquate for transfering heat from the engine coolant to the water in the tank over a few hour drive. I'm not sure you would get enough heat transfer to satisify any modest heating requirements. You might consider using the domestic hot water instead.
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06-20-2011, 06:44 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2000 31' Land Yacht
Central
, Florida
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehes
Radiant heat is a great idea. From what I remember looking at my water heater the heat exchanger is nothing more than a 6" piece of tubing welded to the side of the tank. The surface area is adaquate for transfering heat from the engine coolant to the water in the tank over a few hour drive. I'm not sure you would get enough heat transfer to satisify any modest heating requirements. You might consider using the domestic hot water instead.
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Have you figured out how many btu's you would need? I doubt that it would be enough for either the 25 or the 34, just the loss from the windows would be too much in a northern climate. Std heaters use 25,000 btu from propane with a large exchange area.
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06-20-2011, 07:57 AM
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#11
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Aluminum Falcon Mechanic
1972 31' Sovereign
Wesley chapel
, Florida
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,169
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07-02-2011, 07:13 PM
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#12
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
1989 34.5' Airstream 345
Cleveland
, Tennessee
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFL
Have you figured out how many btu's you would need? I doubt that it would be enough for either the 25 or the 34, just the loss from the windows would be too much in a northern climate. Std heaters use 25,000 btu from propane with a large exchange area.
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The heat generated would only be used to chase the chill in a 24' TT. It doesn't get that cold here in TN during spring & fall. At least while I would be using it. I'd still be living in the MH throughout the winter.
__________________
"Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain
AIR 22749 WBCCI 2349 NOVA TAC TN-6
1989 345 LE Classic Motorhome
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07-02-2011, 10:46 PM
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#13
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2 Rivet Member
1965 20' Globetrotter
Bromsgrove
, Worcestershire
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 82
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Speak to the guys at EMP they are a great bunch and may have something for your application.
Engineered Machined Products
I'm sure they have both 12 and 24 volt pumps that will handle 140 degrees (I assume that is degrees F not degrees C).
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07-03-2011, 12:04 AM
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#14
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Rivet Master
1964 22' Safari
modesto
, California
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,097
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Hey Ricky,
Just a thought on the antifreeze type. Both Precision Temp and Aqua Hot require propylene glycol based “boiler” type antifreeze (GRAS) FDA approved in there Hyronic Heating systems. Safer and carries heat better.
http://www.aqua-hot.com/eSource/ecom...Owner_RevA.pdf
Dennis
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07-05-2011, 12:38 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland
, Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,255
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My radiant heating system...
I recently started a thread to document the radiant heating system that I am in the process of installing in my 1973 31' Airstream. For anyone that is interested you can read about it here:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f163...ion-78761.html
I am using a tankless water heater mounted externally that can produce something in the range of 65,000 BTU of heat energy. The system is a simple open-loop radiant system where the hot water is shared between domestic hot water and hot water for heating. The pump that I pointed to above is part of the system and is responsible for move the hot water for heating around through the tubing in the floor.
I kept my system as simple as possible for economic reasons as well as for over ease of installation. See what you think...
Malcolm
__________________
Only he who attempts the ridiculous can achieve the impossble.
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