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Old 06-08-2011, 01:51 PM   #21
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From a person that just went from the LTX/MS to the LTX/MS2 (1K bucks, lifetime rot. bal. tax,dis, etc...) I was told the LTX/MS2 is replacing the LTX/MS. Better overall tread wear, handling, etc... plus the MS2 comes with a 70K mile warr. to boot! Where the old LTX/MS did not. I will say the MS2 do handle a little different than the LTX/MS. My guess, Michelin knew that most of the SUV running the older LTX/MS never went into a bunch of mud or snow and thus decided to make a better riding tire for the SUV/Trucks running them.

Time will tell and I've got a 70K warr. to find out.

Just remember one thing, a mud tire and a snow tire are two different things, one you want the tread to clean itself as it's rotates, the other you don't so I've never understood how you can have a tire that is both. Maybe someday I will learn how.

They were placed on a 2002 Ford Excusion, 7.3 4X4 with 235K on the OD.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:07 PM   #22
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Michelin told me recently that the M/S 2 won't be out in the 225/75/16 size until the end of 2012. Until then only the M/S 1 is available in that size.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:31 PM   #23
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People who love mud and go 4 wheeling looking for it get tires with big lugs usually available in bias ply only. Chains might work better and when we used to go into the Utah remote areas, we did carry chains for our M+S tires. Having experienced 2" of clay mud stuck to my tires and resultant control issues, I though a cheap set of chains would help if all else failed. We don't do that anymore.

A mud and snow tire doesn't have those big lugs but will get you through some mud.

I always thought the idea for either way was a self cleaning tires and that's why they used softer rubber on snows.

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Old 06-08-2011, 02:56 PM   #24
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Gene,

I read in a 4x4 mag one time that a mud tire was to "clean" the tread as it rotates thus allowing for digging/traction in the mud to keep you going.

On a snow tire, you don't want the tread to clean itself rather than have the tread keep a nice thin layer of snow in the tread giving more traction.

Think about what happens when you rub snow and rubber together (it slides) vs. rubbing two snowballs together (they stick).

I guess thats why the people up north put snow tires on in the winter.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:00 PM   #25
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Paul, maybe the idea is the snow tires are engineered to clean some of the snow between the lugs. With wet snow or mud, the spaces get filled fast and there is no effective tread unless the lugs move and expel the snow or mud. Dry snow and very cold temps are best for traction. With a good M+S tire, I can feel the tires grab the snow when it is deep. In my experience, mud is much worse than snow for traction. Deep sand is interesting and driving as if it is powdery snow is my approach. Nothing is worse than ice and wet snow can turn to wet ice between the lugs.

Snow tires used to wear out fast, but now they last for many years. SUV's and light trucks used to come with LT M+S tires as OEM items. That has changed and you may get all season tires (they aren't good for real winters), passenger tires and cheap tires that wear out fast. Our 2006 4Runner came with Michelin Cross Terrain tires—they seemed to be somewhere between all season and M+S. But, they were great in snow, one time breaking trail up our 850' driveway through a foot of snow; snow was flying everywhere as if I was driving a plow and we drive uphill as if it were nothing. Ironically, when I went to replace them at 70,000 miles—they still had enough tread to keep them for a while, but I wanted new tires for the coming winter—Michelin no longer made them in that size, so I replaced with them with LTX M+S. Our experience has been Michelin's provide superior traction even when they are getting to replacement time. I've had tires that had a large reduction in traction even when they had decent tread left, but Michelin's don't do that.

Sometimes tire dealers try to sell "siping": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siping_(rubber) Once you read the article, you can see there is disagreement about the effect of siping. The principle is that the more slits in the lugs, the more they move cleaning out snow and thus increasing traction; there's more to it than that, of course.

So, there are so many different conditions a tire has to deal with, no one tire is going to do it all. For those who want to experience the mud season in the back country of Utah, mud tires or chains are necessary. Last time I ran into that problem, we turned (slid) around and slowly went back to pavement, stayed in a motel and waited for the road to dry out. With 2" of mud stuck to our tires and a drop off on one side, this was scary. Turning around was very difficult. After that time, I got used chains from someone, but never had to use them.

Tires are made so much better now than decades ago, I'm not sure the old rules apply.

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Old 06-10-2011, 02:18 PM   #26
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Gene,

I will say, I've always been happy with the LTX/MS. I have a Ford 250 7.3 4x4, Crew (285 on the OD) and the Excursion 4x4 7.3 (over 200K on the OD) and have always had the LTX/MS on them except for the original rubber (Steeltex Firestone) and ran them on a Toyota Land Crusher(1992) for over 300K.

I have a simple rule, buy the LTX/MS, rotate twice and replace at 70K miles on them. By that time, you're starting to hit the wear marker and either winter or State inspection is coming up anyway and that's a great time to buy new ones!
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Old 08-24-2016, 07:32 PM   #27
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Anyone with the Michelin LTX MS2 tires believing they are a Mud and Snow tire.... you might want to re-read your literature.
They most specifically ARE NOT rated for snow. In fact, they have one of the worst reputations on wet grass and snow. (They do NOT display the DOT "triangle", required for the snow rating.)

I have these tires on my truck and I believe they are fine for pavement. But the "M" and "S" I believe stand for SMOKE & MIRRORS.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:42 PM   #28
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I have driven on both versions of the M+S tire in wet snow, deep snow, power snow, ice and even on wet icy grass. They have excellent traction even when the tread is pretty worn. Yes, I am aware they are not snow rated, but apparently the snow doesn't know that.

I see my last posts on this thread were five years ago. If I bought tires then, it might be time to replace them.

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Old 08-24-2016, 11:00 PM   #29
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The E rated MS/2's are my first choice for my AS and for my TV. They have the best all around tread design and last like iron. Love them.
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:13 AM   #30
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I had an interesting thing happen in the last 10 days on my '97 Suburban 1500. All 4 tires were Michelin LTX M/S2 10 ply rating. They were rotated every 10K miles. This 'Burb is my farm "truck" and as such, sees much use on our rock/limestone roads. I had a belt slip on the right front tire. It made itself very obvious at slow speed in parking lots!! I had my tire man replace it with the tire from the spare wheel. Within 4 days the tire on the left front did the same thing!! At that point I decided to replace all the tires. The build date on these tires was 4206 - so 42nd week of '06. (I bought this 'Burb from a neighbors estate, so don't know the mileage when the tires were installed.) It seems that these tires had a life of 10 yrs. I have 16" Michelins on both of my trailers - but certainly won't run them 10 yrs!! Food for thought!!!

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Old 10-21-2016, 08:53 AM   #31
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I ran the LTX/MS and the MS2 on my light SUV for years. But I realized that they were cracking after only 2 years. Got so bad that Michelin pro-rated them for a new set.

I go with Geolanders now because they have an orange compound that resists cracking in constant southwest sun. 2/3 the price of the Michelin and no crack problems after 6 years.
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Old 10-21-2016, 09:03 AM   #32
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Michelin's recommendation is inspection annually after 5 years and replace at 10.
I recently had a failure on my M/S (5 years old)...but it was due to a SEVERE pothole which pinched the sidewall just inside the shoulder tread "wrap-around" to the sidewall. After 100 or so miles, the small rupture of the edge of the plys "ran" to the point of about 30% of the diameter of the tire.

Used one of the old ones as a 16" spare and got a set of Defender LTX. I was advised to not get M/S2s, as they are close to being phased out and a single replacement (if it were necessary) would be unlikely soon.

Note, that this failure should not be construed as any kind of quality or longevity issue....it was a bad and unique kind of stress on the tire. I don't think any tire would have survived. I am impressed that it held together during the ensuing 100 miles, before i noticed anything wrong.
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Old 10-21-2016, 08:02 PM   #33
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Good PR telling people 5 & 10 years. I don't run my tires that long. I have to much invested in my setup to take that chance. My AS tires go three years the max. Truck tires 50 thousand miles regardless of thread depth. I'll spend the money on tires (since I don't drink) just for peace of mind and safety. The way some people rave about Michelin tires they must be going to heaven. I have only one problem with this website. I wonder at times if people are writing about trucks, motor homes or AIRSTREAM trailers. So please clarify what type of vehicle your writing about. Ok.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:14 PM   #34
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Um....they're on my AS
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:21 PM   #35
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New Tire!

Quote:
Originally Posted by doutterson View Post
Suppose you had to choose between Michelin LTX M/S or Michelin LTX M/S 2 tires? Which would you choose?

Here are the links to Michelin's website for both:

LTX M/S
LTX M/S | Michelin Tires

LTX M/S 2
LTX M/S2 | Michelin Tires

Assume whatever AS you like and assume the price is the same for each.

Which would you choose and WHY?
The Michelin "Defender LTX M/S" is the new "Improved" replacement tire for the old "LTX M/S 2 tire. Michelin is no longer Mfg. the M/S 2. Buy the new replacement tire, not the old "obsolete" tire!
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:38 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDuke View Post
The Michelin "Defender LTX M/S" is the new "Improved" replacement tire for the old "LTX M/S 2 tire. Michelin is no longer Mfg. the M/S 2. Buy the new replacement tire, not the old "obsolete" tire!
Is the 2 not the newer version of tire?
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Old 10-22-2016, 04:05 AM   #37
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Is the 2 not the newer version of tire?
My understanding is that the Defender line takes the place of all previous versions. Bottom line? See what is in stock. My tire dealer says that nationally inventories are really tight for all kinds of tires, so the previous versions of Michelins are probably sold out IMO.
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Old 10-22-2016, 05:12 AM   #38
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I wonder why they're short of tires?


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Old 10-22-2016, 05:57 AM   #39
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I bought tires for 2 trailers and one TV recently. I had no trouble finding them in several brands...My best experience was with Tirebuyer.com....My tires were delivered the day after I ordered them. If you ship to an installer, you can try them for 45 days and ship them back on their dime
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Old 10-23-2016, 10:02 PM   #40
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Why the choice? What are the tires for. Type of vehicle?
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