No heat in 20 degree weather!

[Chuck Barber]

We were camping in Moab,Utah this weekend. The weather was 50 degrees in the day and 20-30 at night. For the first two nights (20 degrees) everything worked fine. Furnace, propane all functioned perfectly. The last night we went to dinner only to return to a non functioning furnace and a 50 degree trailer. The trouble code on the furnace showed a 3 blinking light sequence which indicated a "flow" problem. I tried to re-set the furnace 3 times which didn't work. Went to the stove and tried to light a burner. The burner lit for a few seconds and then died down two or three times which led me to believe that the propane valve below the tanks was malfunctioning and not letting propane through to the furnace. Tapped on the valve, changed indicator to the other tank which was completely full with no success. Needless to say it was a very cold night trying to sleep even with three blankets! The next morning the lines in the trailer were slightly frozen but thawed out fairly quickly as the sun came out and warmed everything up. Just for kicks I re-set the furnace and IT WORKED and has been working perfectly ever since!!! I bought a new valve just in case for the next time. Any suggestions?

[dznf0g]

By "valve", I assume you mean regulator. That would be my first suspicion.

[OTRA15]

These "propane regulator bad" search results should pull up some productive threads:

https://www.google.com/search?q=prop...com&gws_rd=ssl

They can fail in intermittent and random ways IMO. In terms of timing, do you think the flow of gas was reduced right at the time when the regulator was switching to the new/full tank?

Try the new one and let us know if that solves the problem.

Good luck,

Peter

PS -- This site's time stamp function is still not adjusted for DST IMO. Now 1:58 EST, and the time stamp above is 2:57 PM.

[Chuck Barber]

Yes I did mean regulator and today, 3 days later it is not working again. I’m going to replace it with new regulator and see if that fixes the problem. I’m sure the problem was not the tank pressure because at the failure time neither tank would work.

[tjdonahoe]

Our 13 31’ Classic furnace may work or may not...someone told me when switching tanks to turn the valve on very slowly....bingo ...no more problems with the furnace, works every time

[OTRA15]

Ditto your bingo . . . most regulators have a safety feature that prohibits rapid gas flow, which is sensed as a ruptured tank or broken gas line. Turning the gas on slowly tricks the regulator into not concluding that something major is wrong.

BTW most BBQ 20-pound tanks also have the same safety feature.

Good luck with the new regulator.

Peter

[CBWELL]

Your tanks have an over flow protection valve that shuts off the flow if it seems excessive. Close all valves on the tanks, and shut off all propane appliances in your trailer. Open the valve on the tank that you know has propane in it, SLOWLY. Go inside and light the stove and let it run for a couple of minutes. Then, turn on your propane HWT, if it is full of water. Once it ignites and runs, turn on your furnace. If that does not work, you have a faulty regulator. Good luck!!

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by Chuck Barber

Yes I did mean regulator and today, 3 days later it is not working again. I’m going to replace it with new regulator and see if that fixes the problem. I’m sure the problem was not the tank pressure because at the failure time neither tank would work.

Wondering if the new regulator solved the problem?

Peter

[Chuck Barber]

When we got up the next morning I reset the furnace and it worked PERFECTLY!
Upon returning home I ordered a new regulator and put it in my AS just in case this ever happens again. My AS has been sitting at my house with the furnace working perfectly as we prepare for another trip this weekend to Zions National Park. Hopefully I won’t have to replace the regulator in the middle of the night at Zions! I keep you all informed. Thanks for all of the suggestions.

[perryg114]

Not a bad idea to carry a spare if you camp a lot in really cold temperatures and you don't have shore power. I just replaced a regulator on one of my trailers. The pressure was too low. Also get a screen to go over the inlet and outlet of your furnace. Bugs can get into the furnace and really mess it up.



Perry

[mtpeeps]

We are currently camping in NM. 40's during the day, 20's at night & our furnace would not put out hot air! After one VERY COLD night inside, we called a local RV repair & took it in (as the Albuquerque Airstream dealer is closed Sunday - Wednesday this week due to New Years). The circuit board for the furnace went "bad" & we placed it. Bought a 2nd one "just in case". We will contact Airstream Thursday for reimbursement since our Globetrotter is still under warranty.

[jcanavera]

One other possibility. The pigtail from the tank to the regulator may be bad. In 2018 I replaced both pigtails on my tanks. One had begun to leak. Once replaced, I continued to run the trailer off the existing tank. Just prior to leaving on the first planned trip of 2019, I was checking all the systems out. I turned the fridge on without the trailer being plugged into electric. The fridge lit up on gas like it should. Late that night I rechecked the trailer and found the fridge showed an error indicator and on further exploration I realized that the propane tank wa empty. No problem I thought, I opened up the valve on the opposite tank which was full. No gas pressure. Fridge however did work on electric. I decided to leave on my trip the next day even though I had no gas pressure.

Upon arrival at my destination, I started trying to trouble shoot the problem. First thought was the regulator going bad or the fact that I unusually only open one tank valve and when the original tank exhausted that I opened the opposite tank valve too quickly and the safety had cut the tank pressure off. Okay. Close things down and made sure the lines had no pressure in the (stove wouldn't light). This time I very slowly opened up the valve. Still no pressure. I pulled the pigtail off on the tank side and very slowly opened the valve on the full tank. Ah pressure. I then screwed the pigtail back into the tank and this time took the other end of the pigtail off the regulator. Turned on the gas slowly again. No pressure. Perplexed I decided to swap the pigtail from the exhausted tank over to the full tank. Hooked it all up and bingo I had pressure. Stove and fridge worked on gas.

Bottom line I never tried the new hose out when I installed it. It's mate also new, worked just fine but I kept it on the tank in use, and it took a year for that original tank to become empty. So took the hose back to the dealer, he exchanged it for free (i still had the receipt). Installed that new hose on the tank and all was fine.

So I learned that before you blame the regulator, the problem could be pig tail.

Jack

[Bauxter]

I actually don't have answers here just a question.
I am wondering if small amounts of water could be in the propane tank, and as it passes through the regulator, forms ice in the line. When the sun comes out and the regulator warms up, all is well again.
Doesn't propane get very cold when it changes from liquid to vapor?



Just remembering some gas line issues from my old Chevy, that I had in the winter,... although the sun never fixed that problem

Thoughts?

[vintageracer]

Consider that when propane is exposed to extreme heat and extreme cold the pressure in your tank pressure changes by getting higher with heat and lower with cold.

Propane tanks can freeze up while in use particularly in cold weather. In very cold conditions, there may not be enough vapor pressure in your tank to keep the propane flowing to your gas appliances.

Propane has a "Critical Temperature" of -44 degrees. Propane tanks will freeze up when the ambient temperature drops below -44°F. This is because propane has a boiling point of -44°F. If the temperature is not greater than -45°F your propane will not vaporize and your tank will freeze.

The location of your tank will affect the ability of your propane to vaporize in very cold weather. If you intend to camp in cold weather and use propane you would be wise to purchase a propane tank insulation jacket or a heated insulation jacket to keep to propane flowing when the weather gets cold!

[uncle_bob]

Hi

While propane will go from liquid to gas at a very low temperature. The amount of pressure it generates as you go below freezing drops quickly. Your regulator needs some pressure differential to operate so it's going to quit at some point.

Bob

[BayouBiker]

You have it close vintageracer, allow me to help.

The freezing point of propane is -308F, below which it is solid (frozen) at atmospheric pressure, very cold indeed. It's boiling point is -44F at atmospheric pressure below which it will not vaporize so liquid propane will remain in the tank, and the tank gauge pressure will drop to zero so no propane will flow. The critical Temperature of propane is 205F above which the distinction between vapor and and high pressure liquid does not exist.

The regulators require some modest pressure to operate so you will experience propane flow issues at about -25 to -30F if you don't somehow keep the tanks warm.

Bauxter's questions:

Some water does get into bulk Propane deliveries so commercial dealers must maintain filters and water separators on the discharge hoses of their propane at the sales point. If a dealer fails to maintain their separator/filter you can end up with water in your tank. But it hangs out mostly in the bottom, thought it will corrode and generate rust flakes which will eventually plug the regulator.

When propane vaporizes, it requires a substantial amount of energy to displace the increased volume it gets that energy required to vaporize internally so as you suspected the temperature drops a lot. Any water will liquefy or more likely freeze as you theorized, however most of the cooling occurs near the surface of the liquid propane in the tank well away from the regulator and the water as I mentioned is in the bottom of the tank. Thus unless there is a very lot of water in the tank, ice in the regulator will not be a problem.

[sgschwend]

I am sure you can research the propane flow rate versus tanks size and outside temperature. Then compare it to the furnace size. Given that a small burner had trouble your setup couldn't support much.

I would think you could put your crossover valve (assuming your trailer has one) to the both position and that should double the flow rate.

I did purchase a couple of flex lines to replace the vintage ones and found the lines had a built in restriction (perhaps a new safety standard). Since the stove burner had trouble this may be the same issue for you. I drilled out the restricter.

[GCinSC2]

Chuck

I read your posts looking for your problem details. When the furnace stopped working did you try to light the stove or run water heater to test propane delivery on other appliances?

If all will not run sure sounds like a propane delivery problem if others run just fine your looking at the furnace.

Gary

[Chuck Barber]

Yes I bought a new regulator and two new pigtail hoses, still no gas flow to stove or water heater! My next step is to see if I have some restrictions in the furnace system, maybe a spider or wasp nest.
Does anyone know if there is a problem in the furnace, does the gas shut off to the other appliances as a safety measure?

[GCinSC2]

Chuck

Ok no propane at any appliance?

Ok extra long shot. Turn off both propane tank valves. Try to run stove to vent pressure in lines. Close stove valve. Check regulator source direction and SLOWLY Open that valve for the tank you want to run.

Check stove for propane supply.

And I bet you’ll find each appliance acts independently of the others from the supply. Think water plumbing a leaking faucet doesn’t shut down other faucets.

Gary