States closing highway rest stops to save money

[SARGE/AF]

quote wingfoot
They do not pay their fair share. 80,000# trucks do much more damage than a 2700# camry. The truckers just have a good lobby.
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this is not true, I owned and operated a truck for many years until retirement, and I can tell you that we do pay and pay dearly. You have the heavy duty road use tax paid every year to the Feds, then you have the state milage use tax that is paid for every mile traveled in the state and is only slightly offset if you buy fuel in that state.
Unfortunately the money collected from all trucks does not always go into the road maintance buget as it is federally mandated, so ask your state what they do with the money and it may surprise you as to how much is really collected and then spent on the politicians.

Sarge

[85MH325]

Originally Posted by SARGE/AF

This may really piss off everyone! Sorry dont mean too.
You know it is kinda funny when you hear about all this and the bad thing about it is it is mostly our own fault. We are the ones who constantly elect the officials who run our country, states, counties, cities, and for some reason we always elect ones who have no interest in what could help but those which are interested lining their own pockets. Example the interstate system was originally built from concrete and needed very little update and was easy to repair, but that was replaced with less expensive black top which the money for it was figured at a cost higher than concrete and the extra savings went to political pockets in the form of projects.

Point here is we need to elect normal people instead of the rich who are only interested in getting richer and have no idea of what life is really like.
Oh there is much much more that can be done but not enough room here to list.

Sarge

Sarge, not to be a stick in the mud, but money makes the world go round. The interstate highway system was built as the "National Defense Highway System" and was largely begun under the Eisenhower administration. There were a number of social demographic changes occurring post WWII, chief among them the movement to a car for every household. What was good for General Motors then was good for the country, and selling cars was what GM was all about. GM had clout. Oil company clout was increasing, and selling petroleum products produced dollars. Truck companies were also vying to take away freight business from the train monopolies that had their way with the country's economics for a hundred years or so. How to line GM's pockets, the oil company's pockets, and produce lots of tax revenue with those products? Build more roads so people drive more!

Politics are driven by money, and those with it drive the politics. We've seen that repeatedly in the past couple of years with the failure of our financial system. As long as they appeared to be churning out profit dollars, no one was concerned and politics loosened the regulator's grip. That's what happened with our rail system, and is now happening with our highway system.

The problem today is that there isn't a failure on the part of government to fix, repair, and build out as that the industries for which those roads have built out are having financial difficulties of their own. Now WE have to pay again (looking at General Fund dollars) for the infrastructure repairs because the "traditional" road funding sources have gone away. What's worse is that we've built this entire system based on a fuel that has a finite supply.

When you're looking at pointing fingers, you need to look at the history of how we got to be where we are today...

Roger

[Beginner]

Try this view on for size:
The states are cutting the budget in areas that are used by people who can afford to pay for the freebie. If you look carefully you will find that the programs that receive the smallest, if any cuts are those that amount to welfare. Politicians have realized that the people who put them in office are the "underdog voting blocks" so they cater to these blocks. Literal translation: buying the next election. Regan did it with the firing of the Air Traffic Controllers. They were replaced with those that were not in the "majority" at that point in time. I was at the Mike Monroney Aeronautical Academy at a technician’s school when the first three classes of replacements arrived. Regan won the next election.
Those of us who are independent thinkers, who don't tend to vote in blocks are going to continue to loose control over the budgets and government due to the fact that we vote “all over the map” thus negating our power and appeal to those running for elected positions.
Take Mark Warner for instance, when he was elected Governor of VA the state was in “dire straits”, according to him. To cut back and save money he immediately closed Division of Motor Vehicle offices that were in districts that voted for the other guy.
The department that builds highways here have such quality people making decisions that we can't even get interstates built that won't pool water.
Maintenance.....
Hurricand Isabel flodded the Midtown tunnel because the locking hole cover for the flood gate stob had been welded in place AND it had been so long since any maintenance/testing had been performed the tunnel flooded.
Just last week the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel West bound tube flodded for the same reasons. A maintenance worker stated on a TV interview that it had been 5 years since he has seen the pertinant pumps even turned on to check to see if they still worked.
You want to make a difference, simply email or write your representative repeatedly telling him what you want him to do. He works for you.
Get several friends to do the same.
Beginner

[Gene]

This thread has evolved from one about rest stops to the entire transportation system and its history. Freshair's post about the '50's made me try to remember how we travelled back then. I don't remember any rest stops except on turnpikes. The first ones I remember where on the NJ Turnpike and they all seemed to be Howard Johnson's. There was a gas station with higher prices than anywhere else. After slowly getting through NYC, we'd need a bathroom break at HoJo's and get gas on US 1 in Delaware or Maryland. All the other states followed NJ's example (probably actually pioneered by the Pa. Tnpk. which was started before WW II). There were few 4 lane highways in those days except for the NE. Most traveling was on two laners which meant following 18 wheelers for miles looking for a safe place to pass, and then after a mile or so, ending up behind another truck.

On a trip west in 1959, after traveling the midwest turnpikes to Chicago, it was US 30 west. There was less and less traffic, fewer trucks, endless corn and wheat fields, and eventually mountains with 10 mile grades. I had a license by then and my father would let me drive in the morning (he felt it was safer) and I could go 75 mph. What freedom! Rest stops—I don't remember any.

We'd stop for meals and at a Stuckey's in between a lot of the time. Bathroom, candy (chocolate covered pecans) and my mother could look at thousands of cheap earrings. Otherwise, we'd just drive and drive, but in the more populated parts of the country, driving close to 400 miles in a day was a chore with traffic and two lane roads.

Eisenhower's genius in pushing the interstate system was promoting it as a defense system to sell it to Congress. He had been impressed with Germany's autobahns and realized that the US needed a modern system and that the US was becoming auto and truck based for transport. The slow collapse of the rail system made good highways an imperative. Even going back further, when the automobile was beginning to become popular, America's road system was nearly nonexistent. Dirt roads and mud were the rural roads. The AAA and other auto clubs became lobbyists for a road system and I think it was the AAA that began numbering roads and putting those numbers on them. Maps were poor or nonexistent and interstate travel was difficult. People trying to drive crosscountry in the early 20th century, besides having many tools, axles, tires and extra fuel, sometimes had to drive across fields in the west. We had a pretty effective intercity trolley system up until the 1920's, but autos started to dominate. Small towns had been connected by a far larger rail system than we have now. If GM and others had not promoted roads over rail, it still would have happened. The open road meant freedom of movement for Americans. Through our history, we have moved—averaging 20% of people move each year.

As a country we are dependent on a good highway system. That's not going to change. Changes will be slow and require massive amounts of investment. Improved freight and passenger rail, improved fuel economy everywhere, alternative propulsion systems. Arguments how to pay for it will never stop. Fees, taxes, private vs. public investment all are involved. The things that benefit the entire society usually get paid for by public investment. If tolls and fees finance roads, we all pay it anyway though that tends to weigh most heavily on those with the least disposable income. In many countries the rail system is gov't owned and supported—those are the countries with the best rail systems. If they can do it, why can't we? Is the US gov't more corrupt than other industrialized countries?

As for rest stops, we all agree they are a necessary thing. The best thing is to complain to state governors and legislators.

Gene

[Mikethefixit]

News Flash
The State of Ohio has discontinued trash collection for all state parks.If you go in to use a state park facility you have to take your own trash bags. YOU CARRY IN YOU CARRY OUT.is their slogan.
This does not apply to those area's used by campers. Trash collection will still be provided.
I have not heard of any rest area's being closed but I suppose that's next.

[Gene]

Last week we stopped at a small rest stop along the Rio Grande in NM. The trash contained (just a 55 gallon barrel with no top) was overflowing and trash was all over the ground. Cutbacks? Sloppiness? Don't know, but NM does have a lot of small rest stops and we appreciate that.

Gene

[SilverRanger]

Originally Posted by Mikethefixit

News Flash
The State of Ohio has discontinued trash collection for all state parks.If you go in to use a state park facility you have to take your own trash bags. YOU CARRY IN YOU CARRY OUT.is their slogan.
This does not apply to those area's used by campers. Trash collection will still be provided.

Mike,
Delaware State Parks (for whom I worked for for 30+ years) did the exact same thing several years ago (except we provided the bags). I'll admit, at first I was skeptical but after the first year (learning curve for the public and staff), it actually worked and saved the taxpayers a significant amount of revenue. I realized it would be inconvenient for the customers and, from an enforcement perspective, I anticipated an increase in littering and dumping. There was some, but it leveled off as people became educated.

That being said, I'm concerned about the closing of rest stops. After a little one hour nap, I'm usually good for 6-7 more hours of driving time.

[SilverAvion]

where is the money for the rest stops? in these economic times, hard decisions are being made. choices between emergency services, education, and dollars to promote tourism are all being looked at. frankly, it is easier for local politics to cut funding which is seen as benefiting transient tourism, rather than the local fire department.
is it short sighted? yes. but its also a reality.

perhaps more states should look at toll roads as a way to maintain facilities for travelers. a use tax on travelers and commerce is easier to stomach for local politics, and fair as well.

[richinny]

Originally Posted by SilverAvion

perhaps more states should look at toll roads as a way to maintain facilities for travelers. a use tax on travelers and commerce is easier to stomach for local politics, and fair as well.

tourism is big business. if you discourage tourism tax revenues lost from that industry will outweigh any tolls collected on the highways. unless you have a totally electronic way of collecting tolls, they are a poor choice for collecting money. maybe something as simple as donation boxes would go a long way.

[SARGE/AF]

I agree with GeneEd, this post has grown, I also too was thinking back when I was younger because we did so much traveling and to think of it I really dont remember that many rest areas. There was however Howard Johnsons, Skellys, along with many resturant chains that had a place to pull into just about every 10 miles for trucks & campers/travelers, but those days of places like that are gone.
But in all the posts here I keep seeing the same thing, we as travelers need to start calling, writing, all politicians to keep areas open and available for use during travels. At the same time suggestions should be made on how to keep these areas funded without the cost resting completely on only a few, namely persons of a county being taxed to maintain that area(s) when it is used by the national population.

Sarge

[Gene]

Something in Sarge's post reminded me how little rest stops in small towns seem to be harder to find. Sometimes it's at a park along the highway, or in a really small town, a few picnic tables and an outhouse in a few hundred square feet near the town road junction.

Then there's the small town free RV stop—a dump station and a place for a few RV's to overnight. Paonia, Colo., had one until last year until they decided to use the land for a new library and they didn't replace the RV facility. Delta, Colo., has a dump station that would be hard to use for anything but a Class C; it's part of a parking lot and probably once was big enough for a few overnighters. Neither of these are (or were) easy to find.

Maybe the formal rest stop on interstates grew out of these small town rest and RV stops. Once a limited access highway was built, no one saw the small town ones, and once people had less need for the small town ones, they tend to disappear. They even disappear in my county which doesn't have an interstate. Things we used to take for granted as a service to the public now seem to disappear, become commercialized, or have fees and more fees. Didn't most state parks have no fees not long ago? Now it costs more to reserve an RV site than the entrance fee to the park.

Gene

[SilverRanger]

"Didn't most state parks have no fees not long ago?"

Our state parks have been charging fees as long as I can remember. I haven't looked at recent demographics, but our largest parks located near the coast are heavily used by non-residents. The money goes toward maintenance and improvements. The entire park system is between 65-70% self supporting, with the remainder coming from the resident taxpayers (no sales tax in Delaware). Compared to nearby private campgrounds, the fees are very reasonable. In some cases, less than half of what they charge.

On a recent trip to the south, other than catnaps at a rest stop and a Flying J, we stayed exclusively at state parks. All were top notch and reasonable, costing between $14-$18 per night for full hookups. We also scouted some private campgrounds, and in terms of aesthetics, quietness and cleanliness, they just didn't compare. From now on, whenever possible, it's state parks for us.

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Something in Sarge's post reminded me how little rest stops in small towns seem to be harder to find. Sometimes it's at a park along the highway, or in a really small town, a few picnic tables and an outhouse in a few hundred square feet near the town road junction.

Then there's the small town free RV stop—a dump station and a place for a few RV's to overnight. Paonia, Colo., had one until last year until they decided to use the land for a new library and they didn't replace the RV facility. Delta, Colo., has a dump station that would be hard to use for anything but a Class C; it's part of a parking lot and probably once was big enough for a few overnighters. Neither of these are (or were) easy to find.

Maybe the formal rest stop on interstates grew out of these small town rest and RV stops. Once a limited access highway was built, no one saw the small town ones, and once people had less need for the small town ones, they tend to disappear. They even disappear in my county which doesn't have an interstate. Things we used to take for granted as a service to the public now seem to disappear, become commercialized, or have fees and more fees. Didn't most state parks have no fees not long ago? Now it costs more to reserve an RV site than the entrance fee to the park.

Gene

Your dead on Gene with the rest stops, but I also remember that these small towns also took care of these pit stops and there was always some small & Pop business having something there, coffee, sandwiches, drinks, nothing major. I remember that dad would not unpack anything, it was either the snacks we carried in the truck and when we afford it you got to buy 1 drink and sometimes a sandwich. I worked at mowing lawns and my sister did babysitting to help pay for the trips and extras (mostly extras).
In my 22 years of driving truck and 2 million miles I stayed in rest stops mostly and carriered food with me first in a cooler with ice then when they came out with the 12V coolers. Most of us old time drivers did just to avoid the truck/tourist stops poor food and high prices especially after about the mid 90's.
The state parks did not used to be a place you wanted to stop poor maintaince, lack of services, but the last 10 years or so they have much improved and now they are actually just as nice or better than private parks and they dont violate your constitutional rights by telling you how many kids you can have.

Sarge

[SARGE/AF]

Originally Posted by SilverRanger

"Didn't most state parks have no fees not long ago?"

Our state parks have been charging fees as long as I can remember. I haven't looked at recent demographics, but our largest parks located near the coast are heavily used by non-residents. The money goes toward maintenance and improvements. The entire park system is between 65-70% self supporting, with the remainder coming from the resident taxpayers (no sales tax in Delaware). Compared to nearby private campgrounds, the fees are very reasonable. In some cases, less than half of what they charge.

On a recent trip to the south, other than catnaps at a rest stop and a Flying J, we stayed exclusively at state parks. All were top notch and reasonable, costing between $14-$18 per night for full hookups. We also scouted some private campgrounds, and in terms of aesthetics, quietness and cleanliness, they just didn't compare. From now on, whenever possible, it's state parks for us.

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The state parks did not used to be a place you wanted to stop poor maintaince, lack of services, but the last 10 years or so they have much improved and now they are actually just as nice or better than private parks and they dont violate your constitutional rights by telling you how many kids you can have. We like to use state parks as much as possible too.

Sarge

[codybear]

Hi,
We're on the road to N.Y. and have had good luck with all of the rest stops we've visited w/our safari including: CA, NV, AZ, NM, all through Texas: Amarillo, Odessa, Junction, Corpus Christi, Mt. Pleasant, Little Rock, AK, and here in Tennessee. clean facilities.

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by SilverRanger

On a recent trip to the south, other than catnaps at a rest stop and a Flying J, we stayed exclusively at state parks. All were top notch and reasonable, costing between $14-$18 per night for full hookups. We also scouted some private campgrounds, and in terms of aesthetics, quietness and cleanliness, they just didn't compare. From now on, whenever possible, it's state parks for us.

This may be true in the south, but in the upper midwest--Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minnesota, for example, state parks are not economically attractive for a one-night stay. The reason being that in addition to $20-25 for a water-and-electric or electric-only camp site you have to pay $10 or $15 each day for a non-resident vehicle permit just to get into the park. Bringing the total to $30 - $40 for a one-night stay, more than nearby private campgrounds.

For a longer stay you may want the state park for its surroundings, in which case the fees may be worth it. In some states you can also buy an annual vehicle permit for $40-50 which may pay for a longer stay.

Actually, in the states I mentioned, we have found that the best deals in price and ambiance are numerous municipal and county parks, which typically run $15 a night for a tree-shaded water and electric spot--some right on a lake--with no additional vehicle pass fees.

And speaking of small towns--we took US 2 back to Minnesota from Bozeman and Glacier NP last year, a thousand miles or so of two lane road, and had a ball. It seems like every little town had a town rest area or park right on the highway. As a rule they had nice rest rooms, picnic tables, and many had dump stations. All for free. I don't know who maintained them--the local chamber of commerce, I suspect--but we sure appreciated them. And we went out of our way to buy gas, food, or groceries in town to help in some small way to make their hospitality pay off.

[Gene]

Nuvi's right about state parks outside the south. Colorado state parks have nice campgrounds, but a $6 entrance plus $8 reservation fee plus up to $22 for full hookups make for $36. You don't get cable or wifi which many private campgrounds do offer. The scenery is better for the most part.

We did see a lot of city campgrounds in the north central states, but some of them have pretty much the same fees as private ones.

Gene

[SilverRanger]

I'm currently on a road trip to Kansas City, and have encountered two closed rest stops so far. One for repairs, and the other (Ohio, I believe) had no explanation. Out of the ones that were open, some appeared to be scaling back a bit on services.

Last night we stayed at Buck Creek State Park in Ohio. After several unsuccessful attempts to contact the campground by phone (busy signals, and a very confusing series of recorded messages), we finally called the reservation center and ate the $8 reservation fee).It was a very nice campground, but we ended up dropping $33 for a site with electric. Upon arrival, we saw a sign that said the campground was full (on a Sunday evening?), only to discover that the campground was less than 30% occupied. We left at 11:00 AM and during the entire time we were there we never saw a park employee, and the campground office was closed. They seem to be cutting back to the point that the reservation center is the only point of contact.

By contrast, we are now at Graham Cave State Park in Missouri. We arrived after hours and the campground host was excellent. He also said the Missouri State Parks were cutting back on staff/hours, but the campground is quiet and beautiful.
$19 per night.

[Lothlorian]

I just got back from Minoqua Wisconsin and only saw one rest stop closed from Georgia to upper Wisconsin. It was located on the Illinois border just after I crossed the Ohio river entering Illinois.

I did see more Illinois State Police then I ever have before. My sister was with me and she told me her state police friends told her the reason. She explained Illinois is going to be laying off many state police due to the lack of funds so they are out giving tickets to save jobs.

Lothlorian

[Muddy Waters]

I made reservations to stay at two Oregon SP campgrounds a few months ago. Good thing! I called to arrange for longer stays and they were booked, booked, booked. All of the Oregon coast SP campgrounds I called were full, even into September. They are all great so it's understandable. If you want to visit the Oregon SPs, reserve early.
As for the rest stops, they all seem to be open and fine. Now, if you're headed to California, bring your own bathroom with you if possible and look for turnouts. Be prepared to see people 'writing their memoirs' on the side of the road too. The state will become one giant cesspool due to all the closings. Beware.