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Jammer · 03-21-2014, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Ethanol is a solvent. It won't gum anything. It will dissolve old deposits left by low quality gasoline. The gum comes from petroleum. That's why detergents are added to quality gas. To keep impurities from sticking to the system. Poor gas causes gumming, not ethanol.

It's not a materially better solvent than the alkanes already in the gas.

The biodiesel crowd has problems with the substantially higher solvent power of biodiesel compared to petroleum based diesel. It causes the accumulated gunk adhered to the sides of the fuel tank, the fuel lines, etc., to come loose and clog the filters. To the point where on an older machine/vehicle you can end up replacing the filters many times to get through the first tank of biodiesel.

dznf0g · 03-21-2014, 10:19 AM

Jammer, you are right, I should have been clearer. Yes, Ethanol will absorb water in liquid form. My point (and poor use of Hygroscopic) was it doesn't absorb vapors like brake fluid...it will evaporate first. The water issue is one of poor handling and storage, allowing vapor condensate or liquid water introduction into storage containers.

I agree with your solvent analysis, except for gasoline has impurities (unless it is clear and colorless...like Amaco Ultimate $$$$). These impurities, when not accompanied by a quality detergent, will form a "varnish" or "gum" (insert your favorite slang here) which ethanol will clean off if it is used after a long usage of poor gasoline only. Or gas has evaporated out of the system repeatedly (improper engine maintenance for storage).

I THINK heet has several formulations for differing climates, but I don't use the stuff anymore, since I use E10 almost exclusively.

I agree with your last two paragraphs completely and 2 strokes leave A LOT more "stuff" behind when they aren't run dry.

featherbedder · 03-21-2014, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappy19

I have been mixing non-ethanol and ethanol gas for almost 2 years, and never had any "brown sludge" issues. When I am close to a non-ethanol station, I fill up and when I need gas and can't get to a non-ethanol station, I fill up with ethanol. Anyone with a water borne engine, definitely doesn't want ethanol. I bought a Sears lawn mower last year and it lasted 3 weeks before it quit running. Come to find out the ethanol had eaten up the gas lines and Sears had to totally warranty the entire fuel system. There seems to be a rash of fuel pumps going bad and I expect that one should replace fuel filters a lot more often if you use ethanol gasoline. The farmers love their corn prices for ethanol, but no one else does.

You are toataly wrong and misinformed about corn prices that farmers love. During ww2 corn was $1.00 bu today $4.74 per bu. corn prices have been in toilet for a long time. Farmers do not set corn prices the profit taking paper merchants at commodities market set prices. I would suggest that you do resh. before blaming farmers. profit marg. is slim less than 4% on invest of millions of $. For clarification I'm 80 yrs. old lifetime with farms. Bill

pappy19 · 03-21-2014, 03:25 PM

I don't want to chase a rabbit here, but am I wrong that farmers are getting a government subsidy for growing corn? It is sorta like in the 1970's when farmers got paid not to grow hogs. Anyway, farmers have a ready market for corn in both food and for ethanol production. I have been dealing with farmers crops and crop damages for 30 years, but I am not a farmer, I am a lover and a golfer.

featherbedder · 03-22-2014, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappy19

I don't want to chase a rabbit here, but am I wrong that farmers are getting a government subsidy for growing corn? It is sorta like in the 1970's when farmers got paid not to grow hogs. Anyway, farmers have a ready market for corn in both food and for ethanol production. I have been dealing with farmers crops and crop damages for 30 years, but I am not a farmer, I am a lover and a golfer.

What you are ref. to is gaur. prices for corn commonly ref. as loan deficiancy payments or ldp which is well under $4 per bu. no pay outs, old prog. of pay for acres not planted long gone, only conservation, filter strips for water run off, these are limited projects. As I stated before paper merchants deter. markets not farmers......................Bill

Jammer · 03-22-2014, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pappy19

I don't want to chase a rabbit here, but am I wrong that farmers are getting a government subsidy for growing corn? It is sorta like in the 1970's when farmers got paid not to grow hogs. Anyway, farmers have a ready market for corn in both food and for ethanol production. I have been dealing with farmers crops and crop damages for 30 years, but I am not a farmer, I am a lover and a golfer.

Complex topic. At current prices there is no subsidy per bushel.

There is a subsidy per acre although it is not substantial compared to the value of the crop and this is one of the last years for it due to recent changes.

There are subsidies for conservation and for crop insurance, though again, neither is substantial.

Then again there are various direct and indirect subsidies for producing crude oil.

pappy19 · 03-22-2014, 09:59 PM

The only subsidies that I know of for producing crude oil are private investments that are willing to gamble on a drill, not much of an incentive when you think of all of the EPA and other enviro crapola a drilling company must comply with just to start a drill rig. If the Keystone pipeline goes through, you'll see a big drop in gasoline prices. Keep your fingers crossed.

slowmover · 03-23-2014, 08:59 AM

The Keystone pipeline is about selling the distillations to foreigners. The U.S. is being treated like Nigeria: we get the pollution, someone else gets the product. Plenty of other refineries far closer to the source than Port Arthur, Texas.

As to the orginal topic, I'd use ethanol-free if I owned a gasser. But. like the diesel I buy, I'd treat all of it. The cost isn't high, IMO.