Kicked out of a campground

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

Mr. Lingenfelter of the California state parks called me and we had a very nice discussion. He seemed most genuinely and most sincerely concerned about our bad experience and I believe that he will be taking steps to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else. Here are the things we discussed:

First he said that the camp host had no authority to kick us out. That is the duty of a park ranger. Because we could not comply with the rules for that particular park (more on that later) a park ranger should have called other nearby parks to determine availabilty and given us a map to those parks and helped facilitate that relocation in every way possible. That is supposed to be the protocol for any situation where campers can't be accomodated at a particular park after they've set up.

I told Mr. Lingenfelter that more effective communication would have prevented the whole incident from happening in the first place. If we had been told at the check-in kiosk that we would be camping in a parking lot, we never would have even pulled in. He told me that the full hook-up sites at SeaCliff are booked months in advance and all that's ever left for pull-in folks like us will be the parking lot. He agreed that there should be full disclosure up-front describing "over-flow" camping, as he described it, "parking in a parking lot between white lines."

We discussed the tote issue and the meaning of "self-contained". I said that there was a long list of "rules" at the the kiosk, but that "self-contained" was at the bottom of the list, and, in my opinion, self-contained means your waste water is contained. I told him that the kiosk operator writing our campsite number on the back of the rule list and then telling us to place the number face up on the dashboard, also insured we wouldn't know the rules. Mr. Lingenfelter told me that they decided to make the tote restriction at that park for two reasons: there is no dump station and they had some really bad experiences of people trying to dump black water down the toilets. Ok, now the "rule" makes more sense and I don't see it as some sort of exclusionary requirement for vintage rigs. I know I had a made a big deal about that in earlier posts, but I have to concede that I was wrong and I do see--after some of his descriptions--that there would be a need for a rule like that for irresponsible people. I suggested a completely unambiguous way to describe the requirement is, "no external tanks" and that it should be listed at the top of the list in large letters and that the kiosk operator should also mention it as part of the checkin process for the "over flow" camping area. I don't know that the wording will be changed by Mr. Lingenfelter agreed that better communication at check-in is essential.

Perhaps most important of all was his statement that the California parks are supposed to be customer service focused and "we failed and for that I am truly sorry." He said he would work with the people under his command to make sure that those sorts of "procedural break-downs" don't happen again. He emphasized that he wants the people who work for him to treat people courteously, particularly when they have to enforce rules. He gave dog off-leash warnings and citations as an example, saying that even though a particular ranger may have done the same thing a dozen times earlier in the day, he should courteously explain it as if it was the first time it ever happened.

Finally Mr. Lingenfelter said he would be sending us a two day pass for any campground in his jurisdiction for the next time we come back to California. He said that wasn't to make up for our experience since he couldn't undo that but to express that he personally wanted us to have a good experience at California parks in the future. Now, that, as DoorGunner described it, is a stand-up guy. He also said he would call me in a couple of weeks with a report of what he's done to address the problems that we discussed. He said that confidentiality prevents him discussing what happens to the campground "host" but he said that getting the right people in those positions is extremely important to him and he will work harder at insuring that they have helpful, diplomatic people representing the California state parks.

What is most amazing about this whole experince is the way that Forum members rallied to our cause and that California Forum members were so outraged at the way we had been treated by a representative of their state that they went to bat for us. I think everyone who read this thread got some amusement from poking fun at the "campground host". And, for us, it was a way to laugh at the situation rather than becoming embittered by it. In the end, I have a feeling that "host" will be moving on and, ultimately, much more positive came out of this experience than negative.

[Jim & Susan]

Well, I'll be danged. Sounds like Mr. LingenFelter really is a standup guy. Let's hope "the system" doesn't prevent him from making some of those positive changes the two of you discussed. Good job, BHL, DG and all. I guess you can effect change with the right plan of action.

Jim

[Fyrzowt]

He said that confidentiality prevents him discussing what happens to the campground "host" but he said that getting the right people in those positions is extremely important to him and he will work harder at insuring that they have helpful, diplomatic people representing the California state parks.

Hmmm, read between the lines...It sounds like the host is history.

Thanks for the update, it sounds like you're satisfied.

It would be interesting to hear from anyone camping there in the near future.
Dave

[Goin camping]

Originally Posted by Fyrzowt

Hmmm, read between the lines...It sounds like the host is history.

Ah Dave, You know Government speak too.

My personal favorite Government speak line is.

He is perfectly adequate at his tasks under supervision.

Yep, I'd say that the host is already gone.

[LuminumTraila]

Originally Posted by Blu_Hwy_Lady

, ultimately, much more positive came out of this experience than negative.

Couldn't agree more, Blu_Hwy_Lady. This is a good example of how a forum like this one, and people sharing their experiences, can make things better for everyone. I'm glad that in the end you feel better about visiting Cali parks, and that we were all able to learn a little from your experience.

Oh, and your write-up of the story made for some pretty fun reading too!! I'm looking forward to more of your campground experience re-caps.

-Jamie

[Fyrzowt]

So, when you come back to California to use those "free passes", let us know and make a mini-rally out of it! (Or a big rally)
Dave

[JakBluMule]

Looks like the gentleman with the parks division is going to do the right things....many thanks to doorgunner and everybody else who helped us on this.

I think we should refer to ourselves as the aluminumati.....

[azflycaster]

Sounds like things are going to be corrected. It is too bad this had to happen in the first place.

Great job by Doorgunner!!!!

You can lower the wepon now.

[Minnie's Mate]

Glad that things worked out to your satisfaction. It doesn't always take revenge to get satisfaction. Just knowing that you are being heard by the right people and that things will be better for the "next guy" sometimes is better than a pound of flesh.

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

I got a nice follow-up email from Mr. Lingenfelter. Here is part of what he said:

I am holding Supervising Ranger interviews and I always do a pre-assignment before the interview questions.

I will be using your forum posting for this exercise and the candidates will be required to craft a response.

This will be a major point of evaluation for readiness to manage our parks.

Just one way of getting the right people into the right jobs.


It just gets better and better!

You're absolutely right Minnie's Mate: Just being heard and knowing somebody conscientious wants to make it right for people down stream is the best resolution of all.

[NorthrnNMguy]

I like Doorgunners response, to hell with rude people. It really does take alot to just take a step back and allow people like this to be who and what they are. I feel bad for your being dejected but, as the mutual feelings are here, to hell with him. Coastalview has the best approach yet, Go get 'em Jeff. I'll notate my map as this is one place to avoid, sorry but thanks for the heads up.

[Fyrzowt]

Originally Posted by NorthrnNMguy

I like Doorgunners response, to hell with rude people. It really does take alot to just take a step back and allow people like this to be who and what they are. I feel bad for your being dejected but, as the mutual feelings are here, to hell with him. Coastalview has the best approach yet, Go get 'em Jeff. I'll notate my map as this is one place to avoid, sorry but thanks for the heads up.

I would hold my judgement on this. While the "parking lot" environment may not suit you, it sounds as if the problem of the idiot host (and possibly the ranger?) may be solved thanks to some good follow-up by Doorgunner and possibly others.
There are bad employees out there, both in and out of government. Unfortunately we seem to get our unfair share in government.
But give the Superintendant credit for handling a bad problem that could have been a lot worse for the park service.
As for avoiding the park? Only if the problem stays....
Dave

[doorgunner]

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference, The Marines don't have that problem"
Ronald Regan 1985

[FreshAir]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference, The Marines don't have that problem"
Ronald Regan 1985

......and many people don't want to 'get involved'. However, those who do...DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. Thanks, Tim. "WE" are appreciative. Now go relax on the porch.

Neil and Lynn.

[str8strm]

let us know when you come back out and we will try and "hookup" oops Fyrzowt sorry for the misspell

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

We'll be back to California. And we'd love to rally with all the people on this thread who were so wonderful to get the ball rolling to get this issue resolved in the most positive way. In the end, things turned out for the good.

As a writer by trade I always try to go with Garrison Keillor's saying:
"Nothing bad happens to writers. It's all material."

[ayresdream]

As a campground host I was horrified to see what a terrible example that person at Santa Cruz was. Any campground I've hosted at (2 states, 1 province), the park managment stress from the very beginning that hosts are NOT law enforcement. We have no power or authority. We are there strictly as a liason between campers and the park staff. My attitude mirrors that. I'm in the park as a camper, and I want to make sure everyone is having a great, fun, camping experience. The closest I get to enforcement is to be nothing more than a tattle tale with a vest).

And there's nothing like having to empty your own blackwater tank to keep you humble.

Rivets to Doorgunner!

[Jim & Susan]

Originally Posted by doorgunner

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they've made a difference, The Marines don't have that problem"
Ronald Regan 1985

Semper Fi. And neither does The Army.

[Blu_Hwy_Lady]

For all those who have been following this thread: I got a certificate in the mail today for 2 nites free camping at any state park in the the Santa Cruz/Pajaro district from Kirk Lingenfelter the district superintendent to make up for being kicked out of the Seacliff state park by--being kind here--officious over-zealous campground "host".

Of course such a nice resolution to such an embarrassing incident would not have been possible were it not for* great California folks like Doorgunner and SequoiaCoast who voiced their outrage--And in the case of Doorgunner, I do mean VOICED--at the way we were treated.

Cliff sent the orignal cartoon he drew of the incident which I will frame and hang in Airylle as a reminder that the great folks of the Air Forum community are always with us.

[codybear]

Hi Susan,

So glad to hear of your good news!!..happy traveling to you on your next visit to CA and rally!