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Old 10-18-2009, 09:22 AM   #183
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I think JK in #179 has pegged the problem pretty clearly. If the WBCCI wants to continue as a going concern they need to invest a few of their diminishing bucks with an organizational consultant to figure out how to move ahead.

It's no different than any corporation that has declining sales because the product has gotten a little stale.

Would you buy WBCCI stock?
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:35 AM   #184
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Boy this has been fun reading this AGAIN!

Here's the deal, go make your camping event how you want it. Go do it, don't worry about what the "elders" are doing to the WBCCI. They can't take my trailer(s) away from me or stop me from using them as I see fit. So after a long time worrying about this and the club, I no longer do. I'm going to use my membership as best I can within the structure the WBCCI provides.

There will always be a WBCCI, some how some place. If the club is run into the ground, something will come from the ashes. What I can do as a member is host rallies and attend functions that I see as fun. Support what I can, change what I can and let the other do as they see fit. I'm never (nor most of us) going to be in a position that will change the way the IBT determines how the club will be run. It just ain't happenen!

So go out travel, camp, meet new people with your Airstreams. Be a member of the WBCCI or not (and by not you are missing out on some cool things available) but for the love of GOD give this topic a break already!

Don't you people have an Airstream to be out in, move away from the keyboard and go get some fresh air....................
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:02 AM   #185
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Wow! I have never seen a topic so kicked around in my whole life. I have never been to a rally and probably will never have the opportunity because of my schedule. All my time is spent getting to one place or just going to the local state park for some quick R & R.

I know nothing about the club, but when I read about Elders I think of my parents and their friends. My parents were the WW II generations which I think is the greatest generation that is on the earth. They are only going to be with us for a short time longer. I have always enjoyed listening to and spending time with the elders. I am sure they are set in their ways but they have earned it. I just think of how they have protected us through WW II, Koren War, and the Vietname war. They have my respect and appreciation.

I would think that starting get togethers with like people could evolve into a new organization if you need that type of comradery with friends. I would love to have the time to camp with like minded people who share the same interests. I am sure I could do that without having to join a club, or trash a club. Life is to short, enjoy yourself. You are all good people.

Brian
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:45 AM   #186
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If no one cared about the WBCCI and its future, there wouldn't be long threads. Everyone here has a stake--more or less--in the future of Airstream. Even those of us who own vintage trailers and really need zero support from Jackson have an interest in "the brand." Frankly, I don't want to own a trailer that "was an Airstream before Airstream sucked."

It's frustrating to watch Thor mismanage the brand. It's frustrating to watch the corporate groupthink that decimated the American auto industry eroding the Airstream tradition of excellence. Even if the WBCCI were radically transformed, I'm not sure it could dent the Thor/Airstream monolith... but it would be in the best position to make an effort.

This is not mindless "bitching," Nuvi. This is a group of dedicated, committed, passionate Airstream owners disappointed by the company and disappointed by Airstream's flagship "club." Maybe, just maybe, these reasoned, articulate and thoughtful posts will find an audience somewhere. If not, the only time I have wasted is my own. I'll avoid telling other forum members what to do with their spare time... and hope the courtesy will be returned.
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Old 10-18-2009, 10:59 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by hampstead38 View Post
This is not mindless "bitching," Nuvi.
Did I say "mindless"? Or was that a Freudian slip?

I believe the term I used was "everlasting". Look at this thread--QED.

Cheers,
Nuvi
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Old 10-18-2009, 11:13 AM   #188
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Back to the Future . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
. . . The leadership is not addressing the problems. . . . [so] [t]he question is, what are we going to do about it? . . .
Do what we can . . Think of it as a restoration project. Many of us see value in an old and somewhat decrepit organization, just as we saw value in an old and somewhat decrepit Airstream. Both projects take time, hard work, patience, and the ability to recover from unexpected setbacks. Both can succeed. Cheers, Nuvi
Hi Nuvi:

You got that right. It's ironic, but many of the newest and more successful Units in the WBCCI are trying to restore the Club back to its vintage roots and practices, to a simpler way of camping until we too can retire and go on longer caravans. Many of us undercover Marty McFlys are marching Back to the Future of the WBCCI.
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Old 10-18-2009, 12:23 PM   #189
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A few more words about a reserve fund. The purpose of such funds is to earn interest and to have funds available for emergencies such as lawsuits, invest in capital goods and tide over an organization during a temporary shortfall in funds. The latter means in an organization primarily funded by dues that come in almost entirely during one part of a year, it is necessary to provide funds before dues come in. In each of the last three situations, every effort should be made to promptly refund the reserves. I spend much time working on creating and directing a reserve fund and an endowment fund for an organization and know this is how it works.

To continually draw on reserves, year after year, without making cutbacks in expenses to prevent future draws, it fiscal mismanagement. I also know from personal experience that turning around such fiscal mismanagement is very difficult. The people who made the mess become defensive and stubborn and put roadblocks in the way constantly despite the obvious fact they are weakening the organization.

Regardless of culture issues, such mismanagement is certainly good cause to throw out the leadership. It appears the organization has created an electoral process which makes that almost impossible. That is sad.

I keep reading that eventually it will get better, but when is the question. Counting on the leaders to die off is both gruesome and unreliable. The biological solution, as they call it in Cuba, has proved unreliable in changing things.

I applaud those who stick it out. I assume they have invested a lot in the organization and find it hard to let go. I've been involved in organizations that were shrinking and no one would listen and the experience was frustrating, leads to extreme rationalizations, and ultimately, I just decided to move on and spend more time camping and traveling. I sure felt better, though regretted I could not turn the organization around as much as I wanted to.

I have seen a shift in the past year or more in the posts of defenders of the WBCCI. They now state there is mismanagement. So, that is good—the problems are being recognized. Maybe this painful and difficult ongoing debate is having an effect and hopefully the "complaining" is working.

There are meaningful alternatives to the WBCCI and more are coming. A vacuum is never tolerated for long. I can't wait for the WBCCI to change to an organization I would join and I regret that for 2 reasons—(1), I want the WBCCI to succeed, and (2), I'm 69 years old and I'll die off too.

Gene
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Old 10-18-2009, 01:12 PM   #190
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Ya know, I get really tired of losing a post after It's almost done...However, I figure it's my ineptitude...I'll try to reitertate...Gene...good post, good view...
I don't agree with all the views on this thread(or any other), and I've had my opinion moderated away, but the fact is this a GREAT venue of exchange...this is from a guy who used to have a 'brick' cell phone...I'm making progress...Gene, we're all in the process of dying(or dieing)...every morning I wake up on the topside of the grass is better than the alternative, but a cup of coffee helps cement the deal...waiting for existing executives to pass on is as useful as watching paint dry...besides, most really don't want to die, and as long as they are allowed to get away with supplemented behavior, why expect change? We have to act, or put up with what we are dealing with...having said that, I really just want to go camping with my friends, and make new ones...the organizational stuff is why I won't seek office, again, as most of it seems so pointless...requires time spent doing things I retired and went camping for to get away from in the first place...give me another plastic flamingo, and I'm good...mike
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:09 PM   #191
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if ONLY the good old days were relevant, or wearing a beret = thinking IN the past

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
...The question is, what are we going to do about it?

1. Drop out and then everlastingly bitch about it. Witness this thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvite-F View Post
...I believe the term I used was "everlasting". Look at this thread--QED....
whether the term is mindless OR everlasting...

u r wRoNg on both counts.
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1. chief hasn't dropped out yEt, he's still a paid fella in the club.

2. MOST of the MINDFULL BITCHING in the OLDer threads on the club shortcomings, is POSTED by

3. dues PAYING members.

4. AS those folks reach the inevitable decision to STOP paying for IBT nitwits 2 waste money and goodwill.

5. and once those PAYING members finally get tired oh hearing the non answer "join in un fix it yous own nag self"

6. MOST of those FORMER paying members STOP POSTING about the wb'...

7. and stop complaining about the club issue, mindless or everlasting.

8. i can point out 100s of caring concerned folks on these forums that used to post HOPING to help drive change.

9. who have simply MOVED ON.

10. and we NO longer worry or bitch or even think much about the wb' as an organization or aspect of our 'streaming.

11. see the simple act of NOT RENEWING or PAYING to support a drowning enterprise FREEs us up from this mess.
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so while i don't expect (or even want) 2 change your thinking nuvi'...

i would suggest U go back and look at the wb' threads,

much LESS interest and many fewer posts or reads on ANY wb' topic these daze.

so while the wb' is stuck and sinking in history, tradition and hanging on to decrepit wayz,

please WAVE as the loud, drunken bus carrying nekked OLDnYOUNG streamers to better things, passes by...

QEF

cheers
2air'

and it seems 'dropping out' is a long held tradition amoung MEMBERS of the infamous club...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f286...rge-24155.html

but again we (the endless complainers) have moved on...
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:47 PM   #192
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Quote:
Did I say "mindless"? Or was that a Freudian slip?
Do take note of the quotation marks, Nuvi. If I meant to attribute the word mindless to you, it would have been written as "mindless bitching" rather than "mindless 'bitching.'" Minima maxima sunt.

Gene is right... again. To draw down on reserves rather than address a structural deficit is mismanagement. Misfeasance at best; malfeasance at worst. As best I can tell, the closest thing to a gameplan is to keep giving the WBCCI money while waiting for the older generation of members to pass on. Here's the rub... what's to say the next generation of WBCCI leaders will not do exactly what this generation has done? Power, in even very small measures, has a odd way of changing one's perspective. It's funny how sometimes the most vocal critics of a system can become ardent proponents... once they become its beneficiaries.

Since we are brushing up on our Latin today (much, I am certain, to the delight of my old Jesuit instructors), "Corruptisima re publica plurimae leges." This is an adage the WBCCI with its Blue Book would do well to consider, that is when the "next generation" of leaders take office.
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:54 PM   #193
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Hampstead, I had 2 years of Latin in HS and you are bringing old pain back. And, I don't have a clue what either quote means.

Gene
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Old 10-18-2009, 02:56 PM   #194
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when is a thread ready for bed?

typically when the posts shift to quotn' latn',

the thread in question (and this one is definitely questionable) is already circln the toilet bowl.

with the scrubbing bubbles mumblin' in latn' close behind.

however latin might just be exactly ON TOPIC this time.

a dead language, essentially reserved for secret ritual chants.

or posts 1 step past the widdy repartee'...

maybe ALL threads on the wb' could be written in latn'...

or backwards with invisible ink...

cheers
2air'
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:03 PM   #195
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Well some of us tried to kill it some time ago with hijacking, off topic posts and general insanity, but like the Hydra, it wouldn't die. Where's Hercules when we need him?

Lernaean Hydra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe some Greek mythology will help.

Gene
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Old 10-18-2009, 03:22 PM   #196
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Ya know, what Wally was doing, and what's going on now are two wholly different worlds...camp, explore, visit with new and old friends, and PAY YER OWN WAY...not a hard concept...but I'm tired of subsidizing other folks because their beret is cleaner or their vest is tighter...oh, I've got a name badge, somewhere, and I've even been known to occasionally wear it...but you'll probably get to know me as the flamingo guy who wears Hawaiian shirts, and is proud of being the first Trailer Trash Queen...too much serious is too much...think I'll go build a small fire and forget this stuff...mike
Mike, your Airstream is known as the "flamingo magnet" to me and mine! I totally agree with you....why ARE we subsidizing folks we will likely never meet? I would rather have $1 (current FCU unit dues) go to WBCCI and let the unit have the $55! At least you would have some inkling of how your dues are being spent, and you can ask the unit Prez, face to face, if you are concerned about it.

As my former boss summed it up once, "progress follows the hearse." I think that will likely be WBCCI's fate.
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